Michigan State/ James Madison Program

<p>My #2 son is up in East Lansing at Michigan State to attend an open house ram for students interested in the James Madison Program. Any one have any information or opinions on it? It sounds right up this son's alley as far as his interests go, but I don't know much about it, and neither does the counseling office at our high school.</p>

<p>Hello--I am an MSU grad as is most everyone in my family. I lived in the dorm next to Case Hall, home of James Madison, and I took some classes in Case and studied there in the open classroom many, many nights. I've often told my D how nice it was to study there because the classrooms had big tables and hard chairs and it was perfectly silent in there and open till 1 AM. </p>

<p>The kids I knew in James Madison loved it. A whole bunch of political junkies all living together and having discussions till the wee hours of the morning. Some of their graduates have won some very prestigious scholarships--Marshall scholars. I assume you have the info on the web site.</p>

<p>I found there were a lot of opportunities at MSU and I think I got a good education there. I loved the campus and all the concerts and activities and football games.</p>

<p>I cosign bookiemom's comments. I'm a Michigan State alum and I lived in Case Hall 2 years, where I took some James Madison classes and studied in the 'Mad Library' although I didn't major in the program -- to my regret, to some degree. Madison's viewed as one of the most competitive non-Honor's programs on campus -- something like 30% of MSU's Phi Beta Kappas come from JMC although it's only about 3% of the undergrad population... It combines lots of writing, small group discussion and guest lectures from national figures/scholars – all at the Case dorm/complex... Its kind of like a free standing liberal arts college surrounded by MSU; and although its home, Case Hall, is a modern, large dorm, Case is situated in a quad-like area called South Complex (campus) complete w/ it's own courtyard where it's slower paced with lots of Frisbee games... the overall campus is huge, but your S will love it, esp the drop-dead gorgeous old North Campus a 5-10 min walk away.</p>

<p>Thank you for your responses. </p>

<p>My son arrived home late last night and was very impressed with the program--it's very much the kind of thing he is looking for. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, he spent the whole day at the James Madison information session and did not get to take a general tour of the campus (although he walked around a bit on his own on his way there and back )</p>

<p>His big remaining concern (other than getting in) is whether the students at Case tend to stick with each other or of they are at all isolated or separated from the rest of the campus and campus life. </p>

<p>Do you have any information on how the social life works? He is also possibly interested in joining a fraternity because he has been involved very heavily in AZA/BBYO in high school and he is wondering whether the James Madison kids are ever active in fraternities or other social groups on campus. I assume they are but he is still worried.</p>

<p>I appreciate any info from anyone!</p>

<p>You're pushing me out on a limb, boysx3, but my take from the distance (as being 14 years out of State and not an JMC alum (though Case Hall resident) is that while there is a clan-ishness among some Madisonians -- to the point some outsiders think they're academic snobs -- they are still very much MSU students. The Big 10 experience is always there for JMC so 'isolated' would not be a good word to describe them. They sometimes bond more with Lyman Briggs (science, the other major residential college) who they often compete against in intramural athletics, particularly the annual canoe race btw the 2 colleges… Also, South Complex is a busy, highly diverse area -- many football players live there, including in Case Hall, because it's right across the street from the main training/academic (student-athlete) facility. Also, in Wilson Hall dorm, across the South Complex courtyard, there's a large auditorium where low-cost weekend movies are shown in addition to hosting lectures, during the week, of internationally famous scholars and politicians.</p>

<p>Fraternities are, of course, available to anyone, and Madisonians are free to join, and many do. My sense, though, is that frats are kinda frowned on by some in JMC as being anti-intellectual and elitist -- 2 things Madisoinans steer clear of -- it's one of the most intellectual colleges and student bodies on campus. Politics and foreign relations are frequently the stuff of after class hour conversations in Case's own coffee house and elsewhere.</p>

<p>Overall, I can't see how your son wouldn't love JMC; as the college is fond of say: it has the 'Best of Both worlds' --- a small, rigorous liberal college within a large, prestigious research university.</p>

<p>I'm an alum of MSU's Lyman Briggs College (now School) and can confirm the above postings. At the time I went to MSU, the university pioneered the living/learning idea. Then they had three, James Madison, Lyman Briggs and Justin Morrill. The last was dropped during a budget crunch some years ago.</p>

<p>The biggest advantages, as others have posted, is that you can have the best of both worlds: The intimate atmosphere of a smaller college and the resources of a major research university. Since I went to a small high school, it was an ideal transition. I'd go to the snack bar in the evening and run into faculty in their offices, which were right in the dorm. </p>

<p>Regarding social life, since no one takes all their classes within James Madison, one will have lots of opportunity to meet others. And, even the dorms where the programs are based have other students in them.</p>

<p>One final point is that MSU has some pretty attractive merit scholarships, but to be considered, one must apply early. They offer about 15 Alumni Distinguished Scholarships (ADS) that cover tuition room and board, and another 20 or so Distinguished Freshman Scholarships that cover tuition. In addition, those invited into the honors college may be awarded out of state tuition grants and other aid. see <a href="http://admissions.msu.edu/finances/scholarships_merit.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://admissions.msu.edu/finances/scholarships_merit.asp&lt;/a> for more information.</p>

<p>I knew four people who lived in Case who were not in James Madison. The dorm is huge, so there will be lots of kids there who aren't in James Madison to interact with. I took my required humanities classes (a one-year sequence at that time) in Case Hall with an absolutely wonderful professor that I still think of. That humanities class was offered right there in Case for the students in the South Complex.</p>

<p>We had lots of athletes in our dorm (right next to Case). It's all mixed up there at MSU because it's so big. We also had a very nice snack bar in the basement of our dorm with really good food (better than the cafeteria). </p>

<p>One thing about the fraternities--the houses are a ways off from Case. The campus is HUGE. They do have a bus system.</p>

<p>Bookiemom, Case Hall is, indeed, huge, but it doesn't feel as gigantic as its neighbors: Wilson and Wonders, which look like giant earthbound space stations... Case's architects did a great job of breaking it corridors into small spaces; there aren't a lot of those cavernous, high-ceiling halls that swallow you up. Case seems homey, esp for a modern dorm (of course, it can't touch the old North Campus dorms for homey-ness), but it's pretty darn good... and the still new-ish Barrista coffee shop in South Case really helps.</p>

<p>Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to make Case seem huge as in impersonal, but just to state that there are lots of rooms there and not all filled with James Madison students. As I said, I used to study there frequently.</p>

<p>My sister's boyfriend and his best friend, both from our high school, had the most amazing dorm room in Case. They brought in bricks and put up a mock fireplace with an electrified "flame" and a Van Gogh print over the mantlepiece. I think there were fancy drapes too and some other homey touches. Kids came from all over MSU to see it (cool dorm rooms were more unusual back in that era...)</p>

<p>I do miss MSU! My parents, sister, brother-in-law, and I all are Spartans. (Went to grad school at that other school with the better football team.)</p>

<p>I am piqued by the above mentions of MSU . I also noticed that on visits to my neices' prep boarding school in New England recently that there were kids wearing Michigan State T-shirts . Then , a visit to my son's school picnic , I spotted more MSU T-shirts . Is this college l a popular trendy choice these days ?
In comparison to UMICH ( I know Lansing is no Ann Arbor ) , how is this school different ? What percentage of out-of-staters go there ?</p>

<p>Not sure how many out-of-staters (check the common data set for MSU), but I do know that Michiganders welcome out-of-staters with typical midwestern hospitality! I am not an MSU alum (I attended a small, private college & would not have liked MSU due to size), but I know many students who attend now. Several are at James Madison, and they are excellent students. I would assume that the benefit of being surrounded by the best students at MSU makes for a better educational experience. Socially, the campus as a whole is available! My teen prefers East Lansing to Ann Arbor (don't confuse East Lansing with Lansing!) ... the college is right there in the town. The campus is large, but more compact than UMich (which has A-A running through it). It's a nice campus, with lots to do.</p>

<p>easydoesitmom: I have no idea why you would see Michigan State T-shirts in New England. I have always thought that outside the immediate Michigan area, no one really knows or cares too much about MSU. </p>

<p>The two universities are very different. Physically, MSU's campus is so beautiful. There are wonderful gardens, lovely old trees, winding sidewalks, a carillon tower with real bells, a river running through campus. It's one of the first land-grant universities, with associated farms and agricultural experiments. MSU has some majors UM doesn't have: horticulture, prevet, journalism (this is off the top of my head). There is a student-run organic farm. </p>

<p>The campus is 5,200 acres, one whole big area, with the town of East Lansing across the main street from campus. There are shops and restaurants there. Lots of big-name performers, touring Broadway shows, concerts, and so on. </p>

<p>UM's campus is all spread out and there are town buildings all mixed up with the campus, though there is a main section of campus. There are more sophisticated shops and restaurants around UM's campus, more of a classic college town feel. </p>

<p>UM's 2005 freshman class was 3,699 residents and 2,416 out of state. (So about 40 percent out of state.) The 2006 freshman class at MSU is 12.1 percent out of state, according to USA Today.</p>

<p>Bookiemom, it's truly amazing the creativity kids had with the small dorm rooms at Case; I loved it -- I wish I could have visited your sister's boyfriend's room there; a mock fireplace!? ... :-)</p>

<p>The number of 12% out/state is accurate. The administration is shooting for 15%, maybe more, and there is a serious recruiting push in the Northeast -- which is where I live -- with a lot of literature and directed scholarships... However, bookiemom, although you're right, the bulk of MSU's students are from Michigan and nearby areas -- MSU traditionally is extremely popular in Chicago and Buffalo, NY (the latter being for reasons unknown to me), MSU, for a Midwestern state school, has always had a reasonably healthy number of students from other parts of the country, notably New York and New England (we had 5/6 guys on my floor at Case from NE, 3 from suburban Boston, alone). MSU is also fairly big in parts of the South, like Atlanta, Virginia, Florida and Texas. Also, MSU has always attracted some prep-schoolers -- not as many as, say, a UM or UVa, but considerably more than a place like Ohio State. But there's always this understated rub with some traditonalists that its contradictory and counterintuitive for the 'pioneer land grant college' to be opening the door -- even actively pursuing -- so many out of state students, particularly those from well-off families... But it's kind of a losing argument these days, esp when parents high costs and quality, esp when a good school like Michigan State also gives you intimate, rigorous small-college type programs as James Madison and Lyman Briggs (for science/pre-med majors).</p>

<p>I can't declare for sure, easydoesitmom, whether MSU is the 'hot' or 'trendy' school in America right now, but I do sense a growing buzz about the school
outside of Michigan here in the Northeast, esp at HS recruiting functions where parent and students are asking more about the school and MSU admissions officials are making more trips to the area (and on a very limited budget, no less, given the major hits higher ed has suffered in the Mitten State that has also impacted UM as well).</p>

<p>I would say bookiemom's descriptions of East Lansing, esp viz Ann Arbor, are right on target and I have nothing further to add on that.</p>

<p>There are some notable differences between MSU and U. Mich:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>The campuses. MSU is a much more self contained campus. Although, at about 5,200 acres total, it is quite large, most of it is the farms south of the main academic portion adjacent to East Lansing. Much of the older campus is a park like setting. U. Mich is much more of a classic urban campus, although set in a smaller town, Ann Arbor. Neither Lansing nor Ann Arbor and sorroundings are considered cultural magnets, so culture is more internal to the campuses.</p></li>
<li><p>Cost. Last I checked, out of state tuition was MUCH cheaper at MSU.</p></li>
<li><p>Name recognition. U. Mich wins hands down here.</p></li>
<li><p>Student calibre. U. Mich attracts quite a few more top students, judged by SAT/ACT scores, class rank and so forth. One might reasonably conclude U. Mich is a more competitive environment. At the same time, MSU has its honors college, honors courses and a good number of strong students, too. IMHO, even the strongest student would not exhaust the academic offerings at either place.</p></li>
<li><p>Merit aid. Many more opportunities for strong applicants at MSU than U. Mich.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Newmassdad, I would agree generally with your assessment. I would note to you, and easydoesitmom, that a number of people in Michigan -- including U-M posters on CC -- are surprised at the increasing number of top HS grads that are 'opting' for MSU over UM these days.</p>

<p>Wow, what an interesting thread. I had no idea MSU is on the upswing to this extent. I've lived in the Seattle area for over 20 years now, so I didn't know about these developments. Here, when you see MSU on a sweatshirt, it means Montana State University!</p>

<p>My D will probably apply to med school at MSU. Wouldn't that be great to have a third-generation Spartan! (But I'd love a second generation Wolverine, too.)</p>

<p>... and today, MSU announced it reached its $1.2B fundraising goal a year ahead of schedule.</p>

<p><a href="http://newsroom.msu.edu/site/indexer/2875/content.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://newsroom.msu.edu/site/indexer/2875/content.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I have really enjoyed reading all of your responses. I've shown this thread to my son (normally, he would be caught dead before he could be caught on this site--just not his thing!) It's funny, MSU wasn't really on my son's list at all, and now it's right about at the top of his list.</p>

<p>He should hear in just a few weeks--he's keeping his fingers crossed.</p>

<p>Ironically MSU was not on my son's list (and we're in state), but he recently added it. I found this thread interesting also. Perhaps kids are getting abit tired of the U of M hyped up admissions. It is a lovely campus and I come from a multi-generational U of M Engineering family. I teased my father (U of M Engineering School class of 40 or something like that) that I was going to buy him a State flag for his flag pole and replace all his maize and blue attire with green and white if S goes there. I'm not holding my breath, but just shocked that he sent his app in. He too is waiting word and applied to the new res college. I would not be sad if he stayed in his home state. MSU does have a gloriously collegiate campus and a very lively social scene in addition to some highly ranked programs. I been there many times over the years for one reason or another most recently the little downtown area was hopping on Friday night with young and it felt just as "cool" and fun as Ann Arbor. It suffers most from years of being the ugly step sister to U of M.</p>

<p>No, no, MSU is the PRETTY stepsister with slightly lower SAT scores and cheerleading and 4H as ECs.</p>

<p>What new res college--at MSU?</p>