Mid-quarter Freshman grades trickling in-trying to keep my cool

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi. I stirred up quite a hornets nest last year with my D in her freshman year getting her first Bs. Boy, I remember everyone here really yelled at me for worrying if Bs were OK. So I backed off. Well, there were a few Bs that first semester. After a highschool career with not even an A-. But, guess what, everyone who yelled at me was right:. First of all, her grades recovered 2nd semester. Second of all, many of these kids who have been the top academic types in high school get to their reach school and for the first time find a broad social circle to enjoy. And enjoy it they do. And, enjoy it they probably should, within reason.</p>

<p>Your concern that 50% is an F, well, these college math classes ARE way harder than the AP Calc BC they got As in. And it is possible that 50% is a B, in my experience.</p>

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<p>
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...what percentage of merit awardees lose their scholarships due to grades?

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</p>

<p>This is one of those obviously important pieces of information I NEVER would have thought to ask about! If we're lucky enough to be in that situation some day, I certainly will. Thanks for the tip.</p>

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<p>Just as a note my S at CMU got 75% on a Concepts of Math test and it just made an A - the teacher said future curves wouldn't be as generous. But we picked the school exactly because it would challenge him and none of us expect him to be near the top of the class, or even top half. The important point is if he is learning the material to the teacher's satisfaction. (This was a NMF in the top 4% of his high school class.) We do know that if any of the instructors have a concern they will consult with the freshman advisor who will talk to the student and arrange any (free) tutoring that may be required. That personal attention is of the reasons why we are paying over twice as much as the state U.</p>

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<p>I know of one kid who was on the verge of losing his merit scholarship due to poor grades. He went to talk to a few of his professors about the situation, and apparently, one or two of them actually raised his grades marginally enough so that he could keep his scholarship. The next semester, he made the grades on his own.</p>

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<p>My S's best friend lost his merit scholarship and subsequently dropped out of school (this was already the local state tech U, and parents weren't paying anything, and weren't going to.) He failed Calc twice. In his defense, he was at an engineering school but not in an engineering major. They've now dropped the requirement for his major to an easier form of Calc, but too late for him. :(</p>

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<p>Along the same lines, I had a very close friend in college who had a very large outside scholarship which required maintaining a 3.0 average. This girl was pre-med and those intro calc and chemistry course were brutal. My friend was practically having a nervous breakdown worrying about her grades. She was studying all the time. One of the tutoring resource centers told her to talk to the financial aid office about her worries. The director of financial aid actually contacted the scholarship sponsor and explained to them that their requirement were very difficult for a first-year student at such a competetive school. He also told them that the requirement was stopping this girl from participating in extra-curricular activities and surely they wanted her to get the most out of school. The sponsors said they had no idea their requirements were so onerous and happily dropped the acceptable GPA to a 2.0. My friend (who did maintain a 3.0+) was so relieved and grateful. She was a new person. Just good to know, sometimes you can ask (or have someone ask on your behalf) to have the requirements changed.</p>

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<p>I appreciate all the support and "war stories". My son only had the AP Calculus AB at our little high school. Maybe Calculus II is too much for him? I'll talk to him again this weekend. I know he has the ability since he had an 800 on the SAT II math and a 36 on the ACT math. He may just not have the background preparation for it.</p>

<p>The social thing...........I dunno. I know he likes having a good time and it was good clean fun in high school. He never had to develop much in the way of time management skills in high school. He juggled all his activities without problem but the schoolwork was easy. This is the first time he's ever had to work at academics. I used to tell him the story of a friend's son who was the best chemistry student at our high school. The son went to our tough flagship state university and could only pull a B in chemistry. My son laughed and shrugged it off. I bet he feels differently now. </p>

<p>Thankfully we don't have a grade dependent scholarship to worry about. I'm going to talk to him at length about the academic support utoring the university offers. I've told him my war story of flunking my first tax accounting test, getting the shock of my academic life and then kicking it into high gear and earning an A in the class. </p>

<p>I just keep telling myself everything will work out fine and it usually does. Thanks, momoffive</p>

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<p>my D has a scholarship to HS, and the scholarship people want 4.0s...well, my D isn't there, and she is doing her best, so I told her, well, just do your best, work hard, and if the scholarship standards of GPA are jsut unattainable, well we had it for as long as we did, and that is fine</p>

<p>We are fortunate that I could say that, and the relief on her face and in her body was palable</p>

<p>1ofeach makes valid points, schools are not all the same, so scholarships should perhaps admit a bit to degree being studied, courses and difficulty of school</p>

<p>My nephew is at a Cal State school...first semester freshman take three classes....that is it...so they can do well (at least that is the theory and the reason stated- with California schools, who really knows why they do anything)...anyway, he has 2 tough course and 1 fairly easy</p>

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<p>College Calc is like from another planet compared to HS, no matter how a kid did previouslly, and often student are over confidnet in their ability...and maybe should step back, get some more fundamentals is a slower paced class, which, btw, is no means a cake walk, nor is it a bad thing to do....that is why there is usally flexibility in math courses with regard to levels...and schools want kids to succeed will most likely gladly move students around in math courses</p>

<p>so tell son it is okay to switch if he wants to , no shame at all, lots of students do and the college and his friends and no one will think any less of him for realizing he needs to switch</p>

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<p>
[quote]
My son only had the AP Calculus AB at our little high school. Maybe Calculus II is too much for him?

[/quote]
In general (YMMV), Calc II would be the right class for a kid who has had APCalcAB in hs. If, as you say, he is treating it like it is "no big deal," you might also want to consider treating it as no big deal. As you've heard from several posters (and it is my experience too with my S), you often can't tell by a numerical test grade or progress grade what that will translate to in a tough, curve-graded college course.</p>

<p>If you turn this into a big discussion point with your S, you risk conveying to him a lack of confidence in his own abilities. I would question the value of delivering the message that maybe he is taking courses that are too advanced for him. If he doesn't think so, I would leave it alone. He does say to you it's a tough course, but he doesn't seem worried. I think that is a realistic combination of feelings for these kids in heavy math/science/Engineering type programs. </p>

<p>I heard some yukky sounding test and intermediate grades from my S. He ended up with over 3.5GPA in this type of tough program. His chem class was just the type of situation you outline here - very low numerical grades (like 62 on one test) yielded him an A at the end of the term. When I heard of the grades and the "I don't know how I'll do; this teacher isn't so great/is tough" or whatever, I just told him to keep on doing his best as he always has. I think that's a good message to convey, rather than a worried message.</p>

<p>We can bring our worries here :), as you have, rather than to them. </p>

<p>We <em>did</em> have a talk with DS (was he listening, who knows?) before he took off for Freshman year about the availability of help on today's campuses if the workload is harder than expected and that there is no shame in availing yourself of them and some risk in not doing so. If you've never talked about that, it might be something to do, but lightly.</p>

<p>Sometimes we worry that being in a tough class, not getting the great grade typical of a kid could sap his confidence. I think we should remember that working through this kind of challenge can yield huge rewards in the confidence realm.</p>

<p>(If there is a scholarship GPA at stake, that is a different matter; but still maybe premature to address right now. And on the scholarship GPA, I echo those posters who say to check this UP FRONT, before choosing a school. DS' merit $$ required a 2.7GPA in Engineering - very realistic and he far exceed that. $$ which require a 3.5 are just too much pressure imo and should be looked at with a very cold eye).</p>

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<p>A dear friend, with a doctorate in clinical psych, wrote this note to my D (an overachiever) as she was heading off to school this fall. Reading it helps me relax, a LOT, because coming from a Dr. of psych, his approach means far more than mine, which is all emotionally based...an excerpt:</p>

<p>DON’T stress out in college. They’re not there to fail you…they’re there to make competent, intelligent students/graduates. Which college would you rather go to…one where 20% of students fail/dropout, or one where all the students succeed. Yes, you are there to learn…and learn is what you will do. But don’t ever let the learning stress you out. If you get a B- on a paper that you put 110% of your effort into, use that as an opportunity to learn and find out how to get a B. In the big scheme of things, an employer X years down the road isn’t going to want to know why you got a B- on a paper. They won’t even know you got a B-…let alone even did the paper. They WILL however, know that you got a degree from a prestigious university…one that doesn’t let “just anyone” in…but only accepts the cream of the crop. By all means, keep focused on getting good grades, but more importantly have a wonderful experience, and get everything out of your college life to help prepare you for the “real world”. ALWAYS give a 110% effort.</p>

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<p>Momoffive,
Last year my DS took at math class at UCBerkeley, Linear Algebra & Differencial Equations. (He was a senior in hs at the time who had already done all the math his hs had to offer.). Through the first half of the semester his grades were 50-60%. I was panicking. He wasn't. Final grade in the class: A+. I would probably be just like you and really worried. I've never understood math in the way my son does. I can understand your concern. But I thought it might help you to know that midterm grades don't always reflect the final outcome. I did spend a lot of time last year asking my son if he was studying for that class and worrying. But like I said, he wasn't worried. This year my worry is he'll slack off because the school he's at grades pass/fail for the first two terms. (and I have no idea how pass/fail will effect scholarships that require 3.0 or better..anybody know how that works?).</p>

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<p>You shouldn't get overly concerned at this point by a low percentage score on a test. For classes graded on a 'curve' such as math, science, and engineering classes, it's possible that the highest score on the test was a 50% (or even lower) and would end up to be an 'A'. This concept takes some getting used to and it'd be nice if the professors would explain their grading process and typical test percentages to relieve anxiety but many of them don't. College isn't HS and different colleges and professors within a college will have their own ways of going about grading.</p>

<p>It may help if your S can get an idea from fellow classmates what other scores were so he can figure out if he's about the norm, above the norm, or way below the norm. Otherwise, your S will just need to keep trying his hardest, try to keep his chin up, and see what the real grade is at the end of the class. As a parent, my recommendation is to try to not put pressure on him at this point since you have no way of knowing if the 50% is good or bad and pressure will likely only have a negative affect on the situation. You and your S, depending on the college and major, will likely to have to get used to the idea of lower grades than you're used to from HS.</p>

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<p>My experience was that the prof would give out the stats--highest grade was a 60%, lowest was 24%, you can all do better than this, etc. etc. It is reassuring to know where you fall on the curve.</p>

<p>IMHO, though, if the highest grade is consistently that low, either the test isn't realistic or the prof isn't doing a very good job of teaching. Or do they always leave room at the top for when the occasional genius comes along and scores 90%? lol</p>

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<p>In one of my son's freshman courses at MIT, the class average was around 40%. That's because a) the professors are watching for the truly exceptional students, b) they assume everyone understands the easy stuff.... So: ask your son WHY he thinks his 50% is still passing? Did the professor say so? Or the TA? Or another student? The answer matters.</p>

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<p>In one of my son's physics classes, the average for the first midterm was really high, around 90%, I think. The professor felt that this was too high, and adjusted subsequent exams.</p>

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<p>Our S is home this week-end because Monday is a Holiday for them. He just showed us all of his grades on-line. They have some Internet site that shows grades on each test, quiz, paper, etc. with the class median and the class average as well as the total possible for each assignment. Some assignments have total possible of 100 points, while others are 70 or 60 or 50. So, the points alone wouldn't be very informative. It's very comforting (at least in his case) to have the median since he was above that, but it wasn't entirely clear, at least to me, how it would all shake in terms of a letter grade. I didn't try to do a weighted average, although they have been in school since mid-August and he seemed to have quite a few data points to work with.</p>