Mid-term wake up call for freshman engineering student

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Well said, Japhur. Agree with all. It's not a bad thing, just a tough thing. I jokingly said to him yesterday, 'what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger'....and something like builds your character, too...I was really trying to pump him up. I was trying not to be patronizing, but rather raise his spirits with a little humor. Thank God we have a really wonderful relationship and he loves to talk to his mom about tough things. </p>

<p>On a positive note, we're going to take him on a Halloween adventure this weekend at a crazy Halloween venue in our state. Should be pretty silly and we all hope to have fun. The boys will all bring friends and we'll all get silly for the evening. Right before he went off to college we went on a Ghost Tour in Boston. That was a hoot.</p>

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<p>Does he have a Fall Break? At son's college, they will be out for a week in Mid-Oct just after mid-terms. I remember when he was a freshman that this break came just at the right time (he is now a Jr. Engineering student). And, while he did bring work home, it gave him the op to rest and relax. He returned to finish the semester with much more energy. Even now, it is a welcome respite as the Engineering courses are much more difficult, but at least he is now into courses that focus on his major rather than the weed-out Calcs, Physics and Chems. Tell your son to hang in there; one grade should not destroy a GPA. And, as he takes the courses that are his specific Eng major, he will probably improve on that GPA because hopefully it will be something he likes even tho it will continue to be difficult. Engineering is tough I've come to realize--no matter where you go to school. Most engineers social lives take a dive at college (not all!) and overscheduling can be a burden if the time management is not kept in check. Good Luck to your son--it will get better!!!</p>

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<p>Welcome to the wonderful world of engineering. Just because your son went to the "#1 ranked high school", he shouldn't expect an easy ride through any engineering program. High school exams are extremely easy compared to what you experience in college (especially engineering). There is no more getting 100% on all of your exams. If you pull a low A average on all of your exams you are a genius. Tell him to learn to love the curve, its the only way to survive sometimes.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think AP classes completely screw people over, especially in engineering. Unless you really gain a true understanding on the material (the AP test and AP classes are a joke...), you are setting yourself up for failure. Some kids can pull it off, but more often than not, they end up behind the curve. The college level math for engineers is so much more in depth, and AP tends to leave a lot of concepts out. One of my best decisions in college was to not use my AP credits in math (my advisor flat out told me to do that, even though I got a 5 on the AP exam), and to start at calculus 1 again.</p>

<p>Also, why is he freaking out about grad school in his freshman year? He should be focusing on the task at hand, not what is going to happen 4 years down the road. I hate to sound like a jerk but it sounds like his schooling has been "managed" by his parents, and he is just trying to make you happy. Almost every kid I know that is like that struggles/drops out of engineering. The dual degree thing sounds pointless also. I tell him to pick ONE degree program. He can take some business electives if he's interested, but if he is struggling with freshman year, its not going to get any easier. Adding another major is just going to make it that much worse. If you get an engineering degree most companies will gladly take you over a business major anyway. </p>

<p>I not trying to sound harsh but I have seen a lot of my peers fall behind/jump ship because of stuff like this. He needs to change his mindset and realize that its a whole different ball game.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
the AP test and AP classes are a joke...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>(Perhaps the test, but I don't think you can generally declare all AP courses to be jokes. My AP Physics C course was easily an introductory taste to what I was going to face in college.)</p>

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<p>Son elected NOT to use his AP Credit; he decided that the AP courses laid the foundation but was a little unsure as to whether it would be helpful to bump up because of the credit. I think in retrospect he is glad that he did not use the credit. I also think he felt that the AP credits were useful for admissions (even tho a lot of colleges say they don't look at AP for admissions). The only AP credits he used was for the liberal arts courses that were required as part of his engineering major--he basically started at the bottom for those weed-out courses of Calc, Chem and Physics even tho he had the credits. I think he is glad that he did as the foundation to start there has proved valuable for later courses. As I mentioned earlier, I think it will get better for your son just based on feedback from my own engineering student. Hang in there!</p>

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<p>I, too, used AP credit only for GE requirements. However, when it came down to whether I should use my science and math AP credit to skip a few intro classes, I decided it'd be better for me to take the class at the college. I think I made the right choice.</p>

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<p>Dear MCS5280,</p>

<p>Hmm...where to begin. Firstly, my son is setting his own path, not one that either my husband nor myself designed or even suggested. He investigated all the programs independently and really does have a long term vision. As a parent and adult I fully understand that those ideas and visions will change, evolve, and end up where they should be. I have three boys, they are all very different. We have learned in our house that we need to nurture our kids where their strengths lie, and also let them make some mistakes. </p>

<p>There definitely is a learning curve [so to speak], transitioning from high school to college, no matter what school you come from. And engineering is tough; we have 8 of them in our immediate family. No question about that [and I'm learning that many of them wanted to come home, mid fall semester from places like Cornell, MIT, WPI, etc.] All stuck it out and all are very successful.</p>

<p>As for all of his AP courses, credits, and so forth, he took advantage of the English and the Math, because he not only felt really good about both, but also was trying to add in the business courses that would help him transfer into the Dual degree program, which it seems that most folks here do not like. He also heard that when he was looking into it, that once in the Engineering realm he would be discouraged NOT to do it. But there are a certain number, even if it is small, of students who do want this and do so successfully or these programs would not exist.</p>

<p>In hindsight, he probably should not have even taken the level II math course until the spring, when he had more time and flexibility, but ever since he was a little kid, he's always been the one to do a little more, go a little further. It's his genes not ours pushing that. I don't see it as a fault either. For the most part it has served him well.</p>

<p>And the reason he is freaking out, as you say, is because he's 18 years old and has just gone through his first college mid-terms and he feels awful about them. That is real, those are feelings. He is looking down the road, unlike alot of other kids, but it's certainly not because he's being "managed by his parents", as you suggest. I feel badly that you would think such a thing. He's a great kid and he's needing support, that's what we as parents are trying to give him. And why I posted to this forum in the first place.</p>

<p>Oh, and my son, he certainly wasn't expecting an easy ride in engineering...gee whiz..</p>

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<p>Dear Notre Dame AL,
Thanks. Yes, my son is flying home tomorrow night for a 4 day break. We opted to do that last minute, rather than the two day parent weekend, since we were just there twice in August and many of the programs are the same this time around, plus he really needs to come home. Already tonight he seemed a little better, met with his TA and went over the bombed exam. Of course it didn't change much, but I guess it is not worth as much percentage wise as he thought, so all could turn out well in the end. </p>

<p>Over the break though, he does have an enormous amount of homework to do. That's tough, I was hoping it would be a smidg lighter, given they just took mid-terms this week, but that's not the case. I told him that at least he'd have a change of venue and could do his work at home....It will be good. Some of his friends will also be home this weekend, so that will be great too. Hopefully he'll head back to school more refreshed and energized to return to the tasks at hand...</p>

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<p>Haha, I remember when my parents learned that "Thanksgiving Break" meant that I had to spend the first two days finishing up assignments before I could enjoy myself.</p>

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<p>This is kind of ridiculous. Engineering classes aren't easy, and it mainly seems like you're posting this to brag about your son tbh.</p>

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<p>Hmm. I don't think starting a post about how my son failed two of his first college mid-terms is bragging. Guess the quantitative positive usefulness of the original intent of the posting has past its peak. Thanks to all who offered advice.</p>

<p>*And to again state the obvious, engineering is not easy.</p>

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<p>CapeCodLady, in the future you might want to post your threads in the Parent's Forum. The folks there are more understanding of situations like you are facing.</p>

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<p>".. and he's feeling a bit out of control"
sounds like this is the first time HE is actually in control, and it's not so easy (even being a top 10 student from a #1 HS)</p>

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<p>Thanks UCLA Band Mom,</p>

<p>I do think that 90% of the responses were very helpful, particularly because they were from folks who understand engineering, and how different it is than many other majors. Their experiences and stories were uniquely helpful. It's hard sometimes to talk to other parents who don't understand. One friend even suggested 'perhaps he should transfer'. She was just being nice, but she didn't get it. My son certainly wasn't ready to cash it in, in fact days after the initial shock, he seems much more himself, and this whole thing has been like a huge wake up call. He's admitted he took on too many ECs, tried to do too much, jumped ahead trying to squeeze too many courses in his first semester, etc. I do like the Parents Forum though and folks there seem very nice and definitely will heed your advice.</p>

<p>Some college kids go to college and 'have a blast', that is not something to be expected in engineering. More it is to be endured and the badge of honor comes by getting through, especially the first few semesters! I don't think we had any misconceptions about that, particularly with most of the family having been through it. I only learned the other day from my sister-in-law that she was put on academic probation after her first semester. She told me laughing, of course. Said the beginning was brutal, but it gets better. My brother-in-law called his parents from Cornell mid-October his freshman year and had them researching transfers for him. He was fine by Thanksgiving. And now he's a very successful engineer and business owner, 25 years later. </p>

<p>I am somewhat used to trying to read between the lines with bluntness when it comes to engineers, and do take it with a grain of salt and not be thin-skinned. I married the genes :) And one of my best friends is also a female engineer. I sent her a poem I had written once, and she just replied, 'I don't get it.' I had to laugh. She decribed to me how she just can't 'get' that kind of stuff, and honestly doesn't see the point.</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

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<p>agree, whoswithwhatnow,</p>

<p>it truly is an eye-opener. as for his high school, it's not a number one in the nation kind of place, it was just voted #1 for some kind of survey in our state, which had a lot of criteria, not strictly academic based. i meant that in no way to be bragging or any sort of huge accolade. [our school is your typical high achieving suburban place, where neighboring towns all argue who is better, etc. it's quite annoying. but in our state it is a competative sport, it seems with some.]</p>

<p>my son was in the top 10 though, but now he's with all of the other top 10 kids and the pecking order will be distributed accordingly. he will probably fall much the same where he did with his like peers in high school, not at the top, but in the running with the pack. or that's what he is hoping for, fully realizing that Cs do exist, and god forbid, even Fs!</p>

<p>one thing i've learned is that that the grading is much different. in fact, they even let you drop lowest quiz grades and even mid-terms in some of the courses. that's something that i never heard of in my college experience, but i was not in the engineering world at all.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Some college kids go to college and 'have a blast', that is not something to be expected in engineering.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wouldn't say engineering students cannot have the same college experience as others. I've had a blast so far, I've made lots of friends done my share of partying and other events. If you reserve your weekends for these things there's no reason why college shouldn't be a fun time. Sure it will be stressful at the same time but that goes with the territory. Engineering students learn how to handle a huge workload, learn increadibly hard topics, and maintain a stable life.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't say engineering students cannot have the same college experience as others.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>In my opinion (and experience) it depends (as do most things of this nature) on lots of factors, such as the school, the level of sophistication of the other students, a student's capacity for self-assessment, etc.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I've had a blast so far, I've made lots of friends done my share of partying and other events. If you reserve your weekends for these things there's no reason why college shouldn't be a fun time. Sure it will be stressful at the same time but that goes with the territory. Engineering students learn how to handle a huge workload, learn increadibly hard topics, and maintain a stable life.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would caution against applying as a general rule "your weekends will always be free for partying, etc." The student needs to assess their capacity for learning and retention. The student needs to figure out how to balance the academic workload, ECs, sleep, etc. There may be situations where some things have to give, such as a very difficult course that warrants a great deal of time spent with the material - time that comes from some of those other activities the student enjoys.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Some college kids go to college and 'have a blast', that is not something to be expected in engineering. More it is to be endured and the badge of honor comes by getting through, especially the first few semesters! I don't think we had any misconceptions about that, particularly with most of the family having been through it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>One thing to keep in mind is that some (many?) engineering students absolutely love engineering, sometimes to the exclusion of most other things. Think of the character of Scotty in the original Star Trek series - that is the prototypical engineer who loves his work and understands just about everything about it. So for that sort of person, spending almost all of their waking hours (and sometimes not even sleeping!) is a blast. Then there are students who are flat out geniuses, or have highly sophisticated backgrounds, so are able to do better academically with (ostensibly) less effort; they can handle challenging courseloads, but also have time to partake in other activities. And when you get the combination of the two, mere mortals can have a hard time competing for grades against such students.</p>

<p>I remember being put on probation once. I wasn't laughing about it then (and don't laugh about it now, many years later). I felt like your son, that I'd ruined my future, especially since there were some kids who'd done really well and were starting to talk about going to grad school and all. But at least it seems he now understands that the world hasn't come to an end, and that with some adjustments, he can still have strong academics while retaining some involvement in other activities he enjoys.</p>

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<p>yagottabelive speaks truth</p>

<p>I too was on academic probation, twice, and I darn near graduated on it! I use to think AP was something good, learned the hard way that it's not once you get to college. I kind of think it's a right of passage of sorts. I have since been told by people I hold in very high regard that I am a good engineer, and that is worth more than any gpa. He's going to have to drop some ECs and focus if he's going to get through though. It really can consume you, not just school but the rest of life that is suppose to take place. However, in engineering, as well as a few other majors, life sort of gets placed on hold or you find your life within engineering. It is very hard for smart people to realize that there are somethings they will have to struggle at, I think I was the same way. I figured I was either going to get a ChemE degree or flunk out. Luckily I didn't flunk out (and I think I lot of it was luck). If it truly is what he wants to do than he needs to put it first and figure out how to do it, and if he really is smart he'll figure it out, and I think he will.</p>

<p>On a side note; I am now working towards an MBA, I think he should think about that route instead of the dual degree. Just a thought.</p>

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<p>"And when you get the combination of the two, mere mortals can have a hard time competing for grades against such students." Very funny....</p>

<p>Great insight, yagottabelieve. Thank you. Wisdom and humor, too...my fav</p>

<p>[Okay, I'm going to risk a lashing here, but my son just learned results of two of his other mid-terms, Physics and Econ. Did great on both. He's pleased, plus he also learned that the average on one of the failed tests was only 9 points above his grade, so he's not sure how it will end up. No question there's much work to be done and reassessment, but his outlook is more positive and he's more determined than ever. I don't think I could have recovered so quickly. I might have had to despair a few more days. ;) ]</p>