<p>
[quote]
Between working, living cheaply, and taking out loans, even the poorest child can afford $10k per year for college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Completely untrue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but why does that matter?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Because if representatives of all the major players in an industry get together for the express purpose of sharing pricing strategies, it would normally trigger a lot of attention from the Justice Department. If a non-industry conference happens to be attended by a couple industry players, and those players happen to exchange a small amount of information -- while omitting critical aspects of the same information -- it's much less suspicious.</p>
<p>Let's be honest here: </p>
<p>What do you think would happen if (1) all the major airlines had a conference for the express purpose of discussing pricing strategies; (2) the Justice Department questioned the conference; and (3) the airlines claimed that it was really no different from an operations research conference?</p>
<p>Do you honestly think that the Justice Department would buy it? Because if you do, I have a nice motorway/pedestrian walkway I'd like to sell you. It connects Kings County with Lower Manhattan and it's an historic landmark.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would think it is pretty good anology ... a bunch of folks working in a field discussing how they approach a problem .. how they model it .. what factors they consider (and how) and which they do not .. and no discussion of how it used on actual "customers".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Does that mean "yes"?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Completely untrue.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's true, and I can illustrate it. If you live cheaply, you can get by on $6000 per academic year in living expenses. If you work part time during school and full time during the summer, you can easily make the same $6000 back per year. Taxes will be minimal. That leaves $10,000 per year in tuition to pay. The maximum Stafford loan you can take out is $18,500 per year. Just borrow $10,000 per year and you graduate with $40,000.00 in debt at a subsidized interest rate.</p>
<p>That's a monthly loan payment of about $450 (or $5,400 per year), which can be comfortably made with most entry level jobs if you live frugally.</p>
<p>"if you live frugally."</p>
<p>If you had taken your own medicine 18 years ago, you would be in position to send 3 kids simultaneously to any given school ;)</p>
<p>*If you had taken your own medicine 18 years ago, you would be in position to send 3 kids simultaneously to any given school *</p>
<p>lollers
The maximum Stafford loan you can take out is $18,500 per year.</p>
<p>Wha?</p>
<p>That maximum is if you are in graduate school for a professional degree.</p>
<p>Otherwise it is
Dependent Freshman $2,625
Dependent Sophomore $3,500
Dependent Junior/Senior $5,500</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you had taken your own medicine 18 years ago, you would be in position to send 3 kids simultaneously to any given school
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For what it's worth, I usually spent under $5000 per year while in college. For much of the time I was in college, I lived in cooperative dormitories. You did cooking and cleaning chores and you spent about $1000 per year on on food and less than $3000 per year on rent. Junior and senior years I stayed with friends and/or with my girlfriend and spent even less on rent.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm not sure how my frugal living while in college translates to the kind of money necessary to send 3 kids simultaneously to any given school. </p>
<p>There seems to be a fantasy lurking around that if a kid's parents can't afford their EFC, they must have been spending money irresponsibly. Sorry, but that ain't necessarily so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The maximum Stafford loan you can take out is $18,500 per year.</p>
<p>Wha?</p>
<p>That maximum is if you are in graduate school for a professional degree.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you say so, then it's my mistake.</p>
<p>As king of all colleges, I would raise the limit to 12k.</p>
<p>So say tuition is $10,000= room & board $10,000
pretty inexpensive compared to what it is now at many private schools</p>
<p>Students who qualify for Pell- can earn $3,000 or maybe if especially skilled, can earn more summers- but ya know what?
They are going to need it to pay their living expenses in the summer-
Room & board is only part of the year.
Their familes are also unlikely to be able to help them with clothing or medical expenses, let alone books or travel expenses.</p>
<p>They can earn money during the school year to pay for personal/travel and book expenses.
Ya know what?
So can those kids whose EFC doesn't qualify them for any aid!</p>
<p>Pell $4,500
Stafford$ 3,000
Perkins $1,500</p>
<p>Nope only comes to $9,000
The money they earn during the school year is going to books- clothing and travel- The money they earn summers is going toward their families living expenses.</p>
<p>I also wouldn't increase Stafford loans
AS it is , students are having a difficult time.
For example- one student who graduated Summa Cum Laude 2 years ago from a near Ivy School, who had work experience before college and who has worked since graduation, is living at home because of the weight of the loans.</p>
<p>Recently has received a raise however, to $10 an hour, very excited because now will be earning $20,000 before taxes</p>
<p>
[quote]
room & board $10,000
pretty inexpensive compared to what it is now at many private schools
[/quote]
</p>
<p>A frugal student can get by paying a lot less than $10k per year. As noted above, I paid less than half that. Even when I went to grad school in New York City, I rented a room in New Jersey for $300 per month.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Pell $4,500
Stafford$ 3,000
Perkins $1,500</p>
<p>Nope only comes to $9,000
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As noted above, I would let people borrow up to $12k per year.</p>
<p><a href="http://finaid.msu.edu/limits.asp%5B/url%5D">http://finaid.msu.edu/limits.asp</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
Annual maximums for Stafford Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans for 2006-07 by grade level are:</p>
<p>Dependent Freshman $2,625
Dependent Sophomore $3,500
Dependent Junior/Senior $5,500
Independent Freshman $6,625 (maximum $2625 subsidized)
Independent Sophomore $7,500 (maximum $3500 subsidized)
Independent Junior/Senior $10,500 (maximum $5500 subsidized)
Graduate/Professional* $18,500 (maximum $8500 subsidized)
Medical $38,500 (maximum $8500 subsidized)</p>
<p>*The annual maximum for graduate students in selected clinical psychology majors may be
increased to $31,000 with a maximum of $8500 subsidized loan, depending upon financial
need and cost of attendance.</p>
<p>Annual maximums for Stafford Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans for 2007-08 by grade level are:</p>
<p>Dependent Freshman $3,500
Dependent Sophomore $4,500
Dependent Junior/Senior $5,500
Independent Freshman $7,500 (maximum $3500 subsidized)
Independent Sophomore $8,500 (maximum $4500 subsidized)
Independent Junior/Senior $10,500 (maximum $5500 subsidized)
Graduate/Professional* $20,500 (maximum $8500 subsidized)
Medical $40,500 (maximum $8500 subsidized)</p>
<p>*The annual maximum for graduate students in selected clinical psychology majors may be
increased to $31,000 with a maximum of $8500 subsidized loan, depending upon financial
need and cost of attendance.</p>
<p>Lifetime limits for all Stafford Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans are:</p>
<p>Dependent undergraduate $23,000
Independent undergraduate $46,000 (maximum $23,000 subsidized)
Graduate/Professional $138,500 (maximum $65,500 subsidized)
Medical $189,125 (maximum $65,500 subsidized)</p>
<p>The graduate debt limit includes loans received for undergraduate study.</p>
<p>If you reach your loan limit, you cannot receive any more of that type of loan. If you exceed your limit, aid already disbursed will be billed back. You will have to find alternate ways to finance your education. Therefore it is to your advantage to borrow only what you need for educational expenses, and to keep track of your cumulative debt. OFA advisors are happy to work with you to find ways to minimize your borrowing.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Frankly, more students need to consider their in-state schools and state uni's outside of their home state. The private colleges are just way too expensive and the middle income family cannot manage financially unless they or their student goes into deep debt. This is the high cost of a "prestige" private school. It's time for parents to say we're not going to pay these high prices anymore. (Who's going to help with our retirement? Health care?) Certainly, there are fine state schools out there that can offer the student the coursework he/she desires without going into extreme debt.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Frankly, more students need to consider their in-state schools and state uni's outside of their home state. </p>
<p>. . . </p>
<p>It's time for parents to say we're not going to pay these high prices anymore.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I basically agree. And it's worth noting that the prestige of a school depends in large part on the quality of its student body. So if enough high achieving middle class kids start going to State U, the State U will become an even better deal.</p>
<p>Yes, the state uni's are becoming more selective and are better financial deals. Students who have often thought of their own state uni as a "safety" have been quite shocked this year when they were unexpectedly rejected. Also, many parents are investing in the pre-paid tuition programs which can take care of in-state tuition.</p>
<p>I agree with the last 3 posts. My son is going OOS to a public U (as LBP knows), and only one private school would have cost us less initially. It did, however, have what I consider to be unrealistic expectations in gpa, so that by the end of freshman year, it would have been much more money if my son lost his merit aid. Frankly, the public U has the better reputation anyway. There was one other private school that would have cost the same or slightly less, but if merit aid was lost, it would have hit us hard. My son did not decide to go there, b/c the public was a better fit in his opinion, and I let him make his choice. The other 7 private school options were all just too expensive for us to consider.</p>
<p>In our case, the most expensive school on the list was the OOS public. The next most expensive was our in-state public. All the privates came in at a lower cost for us.</p>
<p>irishmom, I can see how that is the case. IMO, a lot will depend upon list price at the state schools (tends to be somewhat less expensive in the south, but not necessarily the case), efc, and if the student is especially gifted/talented. If one's efc is 10,000 and the OOS public costs 25,000 then a more generous package might be had at a private school. If one has an efc of 27,000, then paying list price at that OOS public ends up being the better deal, unless there is merit aid that factors into the picture. Also, if a student does not keep that merit aid at a private school, well then the public would have been the most economical way to go about it (over the long term-4 year period).</p>
<p>One can easily take car of up to 15k worth of expenses per year. That is working around 30 hours per week. Then choose a company that will help pay for your tuition. For example, UPS = 4k a year and Home Depot = 5k a year. Seriously, what is so hard to understand.</p>
<p>southpasdena, god bless you for your energy, but not everyone can work 30 hours a week and go to school full-time.</p>
<p>really if you work 30 hours a week- assume at least 5 days and an hour commute time- =40 hours
attend school full time- at min- 5 hours a week x 3 classes= 15 hours in class x 3 recommended studying time =45
40
45
+40</p>
<hr>
<p>hours per day left 6.14- assuming you only need 6 hours a day to sleep
that leaves you 14 minutes to eat- wash yourself & your clothes & be entertained
( or you could just opt for sleeping those 14 minutes and forget about eating or washing)</p>
<p>EK may I point out an error in your calculations:</p>
<p>1 wk = 168 hrs
40 hrs (work + comute) + 15 (class time) + 45 (study time) = 100 hrs</p>
<p>168 - 100 = 68 hrs left or an average of 9.71 hrs/day (for sleeping, eating, washing)</p>