<p>see thats what I got the first time- but then I did it again-
I guess thats why I need a calculator :)</p>
<p>30 hours equals working fri, sat, sun and a few hours on another day or two. You are also calculating travel time which should really be irrelevant. I choose to drive the 30 miles to work because my managers are so linient compared to any other work environment i have been in. But a SMART person would work local. How can you tell me you cannot squeeze 10-15 hours/week during the week days and work 10-16 hours on the weekend. If a students schedule is so packed that they cannot squeeze 2 hours on a monday or tuesday or any other weekday, there is something terribly wrong. And if you cant work on the weekends - why? </p>
<p>Then we must focus on the average study time that has been recommended per hour of class you take. The majority of students are not hard science majors or engineers. Other than that ( and i have to admit i have never met one student that has studied three hours per credit hour) any other major should not come close to that requirement. </p>
<p>Lets add 30 hours
Then add 15 credit hours and add a few extra due to labs/lectures = 19
Then add in studying time which really should not surpass 20-25 hours unless your a hard science/engineering major.
That equals around 75 hours.</p>
<p>With all my actual work and little ventures, i am working slightly over 40 hours i think, and i am taking 19 semester hours and this week, i have had two days to drive to ucsb, i have had time to sleep 10 hours, i have had time to help my girlfriend move and build her some cabinets. And for me, this is a rather busy week, usually i am sleeping. Seriously, i am practicing exactly what i am saying and i live 30 miles away from both work and school. I am not sleep deprived nor am i dying from the lack of time to study. Only thing i am missing out on is a little fun on the weekends. If that is something someone cannot live without - fun - then they should not complain</p>
<p>(he has never prepped for it and there is NO WAY we could spend $800 for such a thing).</p>
<hr>
<p>One thing you may want to check into is a site such as <a href="http://www.learningexpresslibrary.com%5B/url%5D">www.learningexpresslibrary.com</a>. One of the libraries in our area offers free access for library patrons. We used it to help my son prepare for the SAT writing section. He just took the test this last weekend so it's too soon to say if it actually helped or not. But it made him feel more prepared and confident. That is an important mental boost!</p>
<p>If your local library doesn't have a service such as this, check out <a href="http://www.lib.chattanooga.gov/librarycards.html#online%5B/url%5D">http://www.lib.chattanooga.gov/librarycards.html#online</a>. This library offers an online membership and access to all of their online databases for only $30. The databases they have include <a href="http://www.learningexpresslibrary.com%5B/url%5D">www.learningexpresslibrary.com</a> but also many more. A great deal for a year's worth of access. You do need an internet access but your local library or school may allow that for free if you do not have one at home. That would be the ONE thing I would invest in, no matter what else needed to be passed on. And do get the highest speed internet service you can afford. My son mows lawns to help pay for expenses and he is only 13 years old. </p>
<p>On another note, I think it is vastly unfair to generalize middle class or poor families and their financial aid. We have no idea of what their circumstances are. I admit we're quite nervous about paying for our children's college due to some severe financial hardships the last six years. DH now has very secure federal employment but we're still in a hole that will take years to dig out of, much less save for college. Someone earlier said many children don't know their parents' financial situation. How much more so for those of us looking into families other than own? </p>
<p>I know it's frustrating to try and work it all out but let's be careful we don't over-generalize or make erroneous (or even accurate!) assumptions. There may be much more to the story and situation than we understand. </p>
<p>Blessings</p>
<p>Quote: And if you cant work on the weekends - why? </p>
<p>Southpasadena, a student who is Orthodox Jewish cannot work Saturdays.</p>
<p>How many hours you work- also depends on how rigourous your school is. Workstudy jobs are often much more flexible than off campus jobs, but 3 hours of study for each hour of class, is what profs usually recommend.
I realize students dont' always follow that schedule, but some schools do have courses that require not only alot of reading but a lot of writing.
Students with disabilties, also may need much more time to finish readings/writings.
I wouldn't recommend that students work more than 10-12 hours freshman year, although jobs that may allow study time- like working the reception desk in the library or computer services could give you more time during slow periods.</p>
<p>but this but that...doesnt really matter. How bought we just put it like this, you do what you need to do. Simple as that. Put the complaining aside.</p>
<p>Southpasdena, I like your 'can do' spirit.</p>
<p>It is all about choices, isn't it?</p>
<p>every prospective college student has an abundant list of choices available. I really don't understand why one would complain when there is an alternative that could and should be affordable to nearly, and i stress nearly because of certain extenuating circumstances, for all students.</p>
<p>I would agree that students have choices- I have always been an advocate for that
What I worry about however- are students who think that they will be able to
work full time and attend a rigorous school in a demanding major
or
pay off huge loans within 10 years of graduating without reducing their choices in jobs and living conditions
Our choices determine other choices- and while most can find a way that works for them, they may find by taking a little longer view, they can find a solution that is even better than the first two that come to mind</p>
<p>
[quote]
I really don't understand why one would complain when there is an alternative that could and should be affordable to nearly, and i stress nearly because of certain extenuating circumstances, for all students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, because nobody should ever complain about any policy ever, no matter how unfair, as long as they have choices.</p>
<p>[the foregoing was sarcasm]</p>
<p>" no matter how unfair"</p>
<p>??????</p>
<p>
[quote]
??????
[/quote]
</p>
<p>"un·fair /ʌnˈfɛər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhn-fair] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
adjective 1. not fair; not conforming to approved standards, as of justice, honesty, or ethics: an unfair law; an unfair wage policy.<br>
2. disproportionate; undue; beyond what is proper or fitting: an unfair share."</p>
<p>Hope that helps!</p>
<p>how does that apply to fin aid?</p>
<p>
[quote]
how does that apply to fin aid?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The financial aid system is unfair for reasons I have discussed previously in this thread. Feel free to disagree, but I think it's not unreasonable for people to complain if they are being treated unfairly. Even if they have "choices"</p>
<p>A few notes here guys...</p>
<p>Many people seem to be upset about schools considering retirement accounts/investments. Well, 1) you can borrow against these and 2) schools only consider this as a minute part of a family's assets. Same with other investments. Schools <em>may</em> expect a family to borrow against these accounts, but typically these funds are only going to account for 5% of your EFC, if they do at all. Same goes for home equity at many places. </p>
<p>Several folks on here are talking about public institutions. Keep in mind that these schools DO NOT HAVE THE SAME RESOURCES AS MANY ELITE PRIVATE SCHOOLS. Very few - if any - publics can meet 100% of a student's demonstrated need. This is a huge problem, sadly, but it is the reality. </p>
<p>As far as private institutions are concerned, only a handful are actually need-blind in their admissions processes AND guarantee to meet 100% of a student's need. Many folks seem to think that most schools can meet 100% of demonstrated need, and this is simply not true. </p>
<p>I would also like to point out that "middle class" in this country is not quite what many appear to think it is. If you break down the income distribution in this country (at least the way the federal government does), middle class incomes fall somewhere between $40k and $90k per year for a family of four. This is (again, sadly), the reality in this country. And, since the federal government clearly has priorities other than education this day in age, we aren't going to see federal financial aid increase too dramatically. This is a serious problem for middle- and lower-income families as the cost of education his escalating dramatically (because, believe it or not, it costs WAY more than what the sticker price is at any given school to actually educate each student at that school). </p>
<p>There are alternatives. Community colleges are very good alternatives for many folks and transfer rates for students who actually finish their associate's degrees are very high into four-year schools. Loan programs offer a lot of flexible repayment options and are making college more affordable for many students. </p>
<p>Remember, your college education is something you will always have - it is an investment, and like any other investment, you have to fork out some cash before you see any returns. However, the returns on the investment FAR outweigh the initial investment...typically, folks with 4-year degrees make over $1,000,000 more over the course of their lives than do high school graduates only. Keep this in mind when weighing your options...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yeah, because nobody should ever complain about any policy ever, no matter how unfair, as long as they have choices.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>When you have alternative choices that are acceptable, then yes, you should not complain.</p>
<p>
[quote]
When you have alternative choices that are acceptable, then yes, you should not complain.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sure. For example, if Harvard announced that it was no longer accepting Jewish applicants, why should the Jews complain? After all, they can still apply to Columbia.</p>
<p>Or if Birmingham decided to re-institute segregated busing, why should anyone complain? The back of the bus ain't so bad. Anyway, you can always walk to work. Or drive.</p>
<p>Or if the heating oil companies decided to get together and fix prices, why should anyone complain? After all, they are free to switch to gas or electric heat.</p>
<p>[The foregoing was sarcasm]</p>
<p>We do have schools that screen applicants on the basis of sex/race/religion/sexual preference.</p>
<p>How many hearing people do you know attending Gallaudet?
How many men attend Smith?
How many Catholics attend BYU let alone *out * homosexuals?
Re Smith: My D thought it sounded like a great school, but Smith wasn't interested in admitting men in order to make itself even more appealing- so she went somewhere else.
I suppose she should have picketed?</p>
<p>
[quote]
We do have schools that screen applicants on the basis of sex/race/religion/sexual preference.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So what? Are you saying that nobody should ever complain about discrimination in college admissions ever?</p>
<p>Question: Why is it that parents suddenly think their kids have an entitlement to a low-cost, affordable private education at the college level? </p>
<p>I've never heard any "middle class" parents complain that their kids are shut out of private elementary schools and private high schools -- no whining that they system is "unfair" because they can't afford the tuition at Andover.</p>
<p>As a parent of kids who went to public elementary & high schools, with one ending up at a public college (CSU) -- I can attest to the fact that the weaknesses in public universities are nothing by comparison to the weaknesses in the public schools the kids grow up with. I mean, the very worst teachers my son encountered at the CSU are not nearly as bad as the very worst he endured in the local publics... and the very best are way smarter than the very best he had in the local publics, even though he did have a few really great teachers in high school. But public college is better than high school, which was better than elementary school, both in terms of the quality of the teaching and the available resources. Is it Harvard? No. </p>
<p>But as a parent I would feel a lot more confident about a 19 year old making do with a less-than-perfect school than I do about the hapless 6 year old that I used to pack off every day. </p>
<p>So what's "unfair"? That if you are not rich you can't afford to buy luxury items? </p>
<p>Are there any so-called "middle class" parents here who truly can't afford to send their kids to their in-state publics? I ask because I cut my son off financially after he dropped out of college a few years back, but he managed just fine to pay the cost of the CSU all by himself, including a nice off-campus apartment. (Talk about "unfair" -- he was 23 years old and couldn't qualify for financial aid because my income was taken into account, even though he had been supporting himself for 3 years.)</p>
<p>The problem isn't that the system is "unfair" -- it is that it is very, very fair and people who earn more than $100K a year really are not "middle" in our society. The "unfairness" usually complained of is the fact that rules have been set and are being applied fairly evenly -- if you have $X income and $Y assets you are expect to pay at least $Z EFC for college. And all the people crying "unfair" want the rules changed to consider their particular circumstances, such as the high cost of living for their bigger house and fancier neighborhood.</p>