<p>My 7th grader is bright - bright enough to be in the public school G/T program, but I don't think she'd technically gifted. She got all As in grade school, when she could get them with no effort. She did pretty well in 6th grade, but when school work required effort, she'd say, "I'm not smart." Yesterday she was saying that she doesn't like any of her classes (except Social Studies, where the teacher happens to be fabulously entertaining.)</p>
<p>She is very tenacious when it comes to physical things. She was a gymnast for 8 years. You'd think the tenancity required for that would carry over into academics but there is no carry over. She will practice her volleyball serve over and over, will practice tumbling and dance moves over and over, but gives up in a flash on academic subjects.</p>
<p>I'm sure I don't have the only child like this. Has anyone had any success in motivating a child like this in academics?</p>
<p>we are dealing with this now with a 9th grader. i would want to get a handle on it before she gets to high school.</p>
<p>with ours, and the kinds of things she says/does, we are having her evaluated for ADD. and, so far, it looks like she is a classic case of girl ADD.</p>
<p>IMO middle school is the worst. When D's grades suddenly fell off in 7th grade we investigated and found she was intentionally answering test questions wrong so she could "fit in" better. We had a heart-to-heart with her that went something like "you're not doing yourself or your classmates any favors by doing less than your best."</p>
<p>Hmmm...she would flip if we had her tested. Son has Asperger's and is very ADD...when Daughter spaces out over things, Husband "compares" her to Son which she and I both hate. </p>
<p>It would be interesting if I had my head in the sand on this. Son has another Aspie friend whose Asperger's is a lot more severe than his. That kid has a sister who my husband and I have always thought also has Asperger's, just less severe. We've always thought the parents didn't see it becasue to them, she is the "normal" one. How wild to think that I may be doing the same thing!</p>
<p>This may have solved our problem, too. I mentioned ADD to my husband recently, but he accused me of being too quick to label ADD and looking for an easy way out of dealing with our 3rd child. When Child 2 doesn't take her Adderall, it affects her sport. Is it possible to pay attention playing a sport, but not in the classroom?</p>
<p>How is your D doing socially? Middle school can be such a mine field of emotions for some kids. </p>
<p>In 8th grade, our S almost fell off the map one quarter academically, only it took awhile for us to see it. He'd been retreating socially and gradually spending more and more time on video games. After much conversation, we finally found out that one of the "social leaders" in his Boy Scout troop had bascially declared our S to be an outcast, and unfortunately many of the other boys went along with this (for those who think these things only happen with your Ds, guess again.) We finally got him to talk to us about it, provided we agreed not to discuss the problem with any of the dissing boy's parents.</p>
<p>Thankfully, he managed to come out of this and resolved it by starting to hang out with a different group of boys. Yes, he did drop out of the Troop, but I can't say I blame him. He's a junior now, happily involved with a newer set of friends, and lots of activities and his academics popped right back up there (1st in his class of 572 at the end of sophomore year.) He even socializes (in group situations) with a few of the boys who dissed him earlier (they seem to have rethought their position), but not the boy who instigated the problem.</p>
<p>We just don't have a good "test" child. Son 17 has Asperger's and is very ADD. Daughter15 is incredibly organized and self motivated, well beyond her years. Is Daughter12 just "normal" or not? So hard to tell.</p>
<p>FindaPlace, the social piece is baffling to us. Daughter is sweet as can be and is very outgoing; adults have always loved her. She originally didn't make the volleyball team and was manager (they get to practice with the team) but after two weeks, the coach put her on the team because she was such a hard worker.</p>
<p>Yet Daughter says she has no friends and that she eats alone. (She actually does have a few friends but they don't have the same lunch period as her.) She's a cheerleader, but doesn't pal around with the other girls.</p>
<p>I haven't known whether to be concerned or not. Her class has always had a whole lot of snotty, ill behaved kids. There are always some in every group, but in her class it's the "popular" kids who are ill behaved. (At the end of last year, a teacher who had been lunch supervisor told them they were the worst group of students he's ever had and that they should all pray to Jesus for forgiveness but that Jesus probably wouldn't forgive them and that they would go to hell. No idea what went on all year.) Long way of saying that I'm not pining away for her to be friends with most of the kids.</p>
<p>Missypie, you might try taking her on a trip to an idyllic college where she can imagine herself as a student one day. Then point out to her that in order to have that choice, she has to have good grades, and it is up to her to earn them. If she doesn't, her eventual options will be limited. Her choice will affect only her, not the teachers or the other kids.</p>
<p>Maybe she's too young for that and it all seems too far off. But if she could envision herself in an environment that a) she would love, and b) would not include these horrible kids, it might give her a goal to work towards. </p>
<p>Seventh grade is tough. Have you read any of the books about girls at that age, such as "Reviving Ophelia"? I haven't, since I don't have a D, but I know that there has been quite a lot of work done on it, especially on girls dumbing themselves down to fit in. I would also consider making an appointment and going in to talk with the school psychologist/social worker about it.</p>
<p>It is quite possible to have attention issues and still be able to stay on a favored task for hours.</p>
<p>It is also, of course, quite possible to have ADD without Asperger's.</p>
<p>Is her performance in school as reasonably expected? If not, there are grounds for inquiry, whether she likes the idea or not. Her (inaccurate) comments that "I'm not smart" and "I have no friends" might also be a concern. Perhaps Consolation's idea of speaking to a social worker or psychologist at school would be worthwhile.</p>
<p>I keep thinking that it is entirely possible that she just doesn't like any academic subject. My husband and I are both very unathletic. I can watch some sports, but my husband is always the one who wants to leave right after our other daughter dances at the football halftime show. It's foreign to us to have a child who prefers physical things to academics.</p>
<p>There are two issues with her school performance. For the first time ever, this year she has some 0s for assignments not done, and some deservedly low grades earned for slapping projects together at the last minute.</p>
<p>Other than that, she's more in the high 80s-low 90s category, where we know she could get a 100 if she put some time into the material. Where the material is a bit hard, she gives up. (Worst kid excuse ever: "I'm not Asian.")</p>
<p>"she has some 0s for assignments not done, and some deservedly low grades earned for slapping projects together at the last minute."</p>
<p>Looks to me like an organization issue here. Whether it would fall under "Executive function disorder" and be worth getting an IEP drawn up, or whether it falls under "normal kid who needs some help learning how to use a planner an organize her time" I'm not qualified to say. However, since you have a clear record now of homework not getting done, and assignments being done at the last minute, it seems to me that you have enough to go to her teachers/counselor with so that you can figure out how to get this kid on track.</p>
<p>Lots of students find their sports and ECs much more compelling than classwork. If we were stuck in a school-like environment all day, we might feel the same way.</p>
<p>Missiepie: It sounds like your daughter is not in the right school, program or set of classes. Listen to what she said, your daughter said she doesn't like her classes. There can be many reasons--poor teachers, mean kids, subject matter doesn't interest her. All of these things are NOT ADD, Aspergers, or need for an IEP particularly since she has been previously successful. I suggest you look for another school or special program of interest to your daughter. Maybe she needs a smaller school with more attention, an all girls school, a magnet program in the arts, etc. etc. I can't stress enough finding the right program where she will thrive. Looking for labels, comparing her to her brother, is this normal, etc. etc. will not give you the answers you are seeking. I suggest looking for another school or special program (this does not mean a special ed. program, but a program which specializes in an area of high interest). Talk to your school guidance counselor and look at other schools/programs.</p>
<p>Missy, as I was reading the thread I wondered if maybe the Aspie gene in low gear. I wasn't going to mention it until I saw you bring it up! My sister has a full blown autistic daughter and believes her other 2 kids are touched too. She doesn't look at it as something they need to do something about, they just see them as being a bit quirky and having some high peaks and some valleys. </p>
<p>My sister knows lots of families where one or more kids is on the autism spectrum and she believes you very often see autistic like traits in parents and sibs. Some of the traits are very positive, she's often pointing out how brilliant the parents are. Many highly accomplished people are on this spectrum!</p>
<p>With her kids her effort has been on helping them keep organized, finding activities that develop their strengths and helping them become more social through therapy.</p>
<p>I've never thought it was actual Asperger's, because Daughter is very coordinated and Son is very uncooridinated. (She learned how to ride a two-wheeler when she was 4 and Aspie Son learned in 3rd grade!) But from the standpoint of physical appearance, they very similar to each other (she's the female version of him.) If they got a lot of the same appearance-type genes, would they also have a lot of the same brain function-type genes?</p>
<p>(They both look a lot like my sister, rather than either my husband or I, and she has some definite mental/neurological/learning issues.)</p>
<p>missypie - it's probably a combination of peer pressure (it's not cool to be smart in middle school) and severe boredom in her classes. you might consider acceleration for her in some subjects, a whole grade skip, or dual enrollment (maybe taking some high school classes). the Duke Tip website has some good information about acceleration and you google search too. google search also on the term "middle schoolism." with "no child left behind" and state assessments putting emphasis on low achievers, there can sometimes not be opportunities to truly learn something new for a bright kiddo like yours. </p>
<p>i agree with mdcissp .........the current situation is not meeting her needs and there might be better options for her for this year and next.........private school through 8th grade perhaps and then a return to public.</p>
<p>Heaven knows I know very little about Aspergers but this really does not sound at all like Aspergers to me. Could she be what Sylvia Rimm calls an "underachiever"? Underachievement</a> Diagnosis Quiz by Dr. Sylvia Rimm</p>
<p>disclaimer: I am not a social scientist. I really don't know what I am talking about here. I did enjoy listening to Sylvia Rimm's radio show on NPR though. :)</p>
<p>Private school would probably not have the things she loves-volleyball, cheer, etc. Or is that the idea? I have a hard time believing that the school is so bad since her two older siblings not only went through the same school successfuly, but had the same teachers. There are some good teachers at the school that the other two really enjoyed. I certainly don't think she's brighter than the other two - if anything, perhaps slightly less so.</p>
<p>Is it ever the kid's fault? I know that all of you are too polite to say, "Missypie, your daughter is just lazy and disorganized", but isn't that the case sometimes? </p>
<p>The hard thing for me is the disconnect between the academic and the physical. I bet that if you interviewed long time gymnastics parents, they would all say that gymnastics teaches perseverance and tenacity. How does that translate to one area of life (physical) but not to another (academic)?</p>