<p>
Well that’s certainly an unfounded idealization. Unrealistically glorifying the military is no better than demeaning it.</p>
<p>“the military gives young people a sense of purpose, a lifelong career, and security for their entire lives”
Huh??</p>
<p>From the sdmcp page above:
<a href=“sdmcp.org - sdmcp Resources and Information.”>sdmcp.org - sdmcp Resources and Information.;
<p>In addition, MomCat, one can hope to make a career IN the military and still find oneself kicked to the curb in a downsizing. My cousin’s H was career air force, and was “downsized” in the early 90’s. He didn’t find that there was a lot of need in the private sector for people who could fix military planes.</p>
<p>“The military gives young people a sense of purpose, a lifelong career, and security for their entire lives,”</p>
<p>Oh really? How do you then explain all the homeless, unemployed VETs all across the country? You should take a look at the recent 60 Min’s piece about the thousands of homeless vets just in San Diego outside charities take care of. </p>
<p>"One weekend a year, nearly a thousand military veterans assemble in a camp in San Diego. What brings them there is what they have in common: they’re all homeless. The vets gather for something called “Stand Down,” started in 1988 by a solider-turned-clinical psychologist named Jon Nachison and his colleague, Robert van Keuren.</p>
<p>Back then, it was an emergency response to homelessness among Vietnam vets but, 23 years later, Nachison is welcoming the generation from Iraq and Afghanistan." </p>
<p>anyone who thinks all Vets will be “taken care of” or will have “security for the rest of their lives” is delusional.
[Homeless</a> Veterans: Trying To Find Help and Hope - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/14/60minutes/main6958101.shtml]Homeless”>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/14/60minutes/main6958101.shtml)</p>
<p>I support young people who make informed decisions re: joining the military, However one piece of information is that there is a great risk of PTSD. which negatively impacts their ability to have a healthy life even without other injury.</p>
<p>[Many</a> veterans not getting enough treatment for PTSD](<a href=“http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100210110742.htm]Many”>Many veterans not getting enough treatment for PTSD -- ScienceDaily)</p>
<p>Id also suggest viewing Body of War before making a decision.
[Body</a> of War](<a href=“http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/body-war/]Body”>http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/body-war/)</p>
<p>For getting a job outside of the military, it depends alot upon what your experience was in. I don’t know a single person that didn’t end up with a decent job after getting out. But these people were all Air Force, officer, mostly pilots, some medical or maintenance. Their experience in the military directly related to their civilian jobs, and made them highly qualified. Alot of people retired and went into defense contracting.</p>
<p>I also don’t know anyone who ended up homeless. I suspect that merely because every single guy holding up a cardboard sign claims to be a vet, doesn’t make it true.</p>
<p>I doubt anyone expects they’re going to join the military and be taken care of for the rest of their lives. They believe, under the current rules, that they can retire after 20 years and get a mediocre retirement check and medical benefits. Though that seems to be in question now, with the military trying to push people out and the benefits appear uncertain. But the current veterans college plan they have right now is phenomenal. It is too expensive, and too generous, in my opionion. With very little time served, not serving in any combat zone, you can basically get about 20K/yr for 4 years of school, and pass it on to your kids or spouse. It’s very tough to attend a traditional college when you are in the military, but there are plenty of on base and on-line courses. They try to make it easy. When I got my masters, the rule was…we know you’re working, so just show up to class when you can.</p>
<p>My brother joined the Air force to have money for college when he was 21. Although it took him quite a while after being transferred from Florida to Germany to Colorado to finish his engineering degree. After retiring from the AF, he worked for about 10 years as an engineer but after being laid off, he is in the middle of a divorce & has been sleeping on friends couches.</p>
<p>busdriver, as someone who has relatives or friends that served in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, peacekeeping in Kosovo, Desert Storm and current Iraq and Afghanistan, I can say that I have met vets from all these wars that suffered PTSD. It is great that you never met any vet that ended up homeless-the Bay Area is full of them. Now that I live in Indiana I don’t see as many homeless vets, but I encounter so many that have mental health issues. They really served in most cases. We need to do more for our vets coming back, especially those who are surviving head trauma that would have killed them in the past. </p>
<p>I also have met several vets that are having a difficult time getting jobs upon return. The military serves a necessary function and I think we, as a nation have learned that we can hate the war and love the soldier. It is not true of everyone, but it is not the Vietnam era either wehn our veterans were called baby killers. If anything, I feel because we gave tax cuts during war time, as opposed to tightening our belts and raising victory gardens, the average American doesn’t think about the war in individual terms. We are not affected unless we have a family that serves.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not for my S.</p>
<p>There was a checkbox asking if he would LIKE TO REGISTER. As he is only 17, he hadn’t yet. So he checked the box.</p>
<p>If you have already registered it may be that you don’t get to the point at which the box is shown.</p>
<p>“It is great that you never met any vet that ended up homeless-the Bay Area is full of them.”</p>
<p>No, that’s not what I said. Of course I’ve met homeless vets, and the Bay Area seems to have a large number of them. I said that nobody I knew in the military ended up homeless. And that may be a function of that with a college degree, and training that transfers well to civilian life, it is unlikely that Air Force officers (which is who I know) would end up homeless. At least I would guess.</p>
<p>But I do suspect that there may be lower percentage of homeless vets than people assume. Every single homeless guy I see, holding up his cardboard sign, declares that he is a veteran. And that I don’t buy. I know that nowadays, there is a higher percentage of veterans that are unemployed than non-veterans, which makes me really sad. If someone has the work ethic to do what it takes to be in the military, they would generally be a very useful employee.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And then it would be too late. </p>
<p>Mr PMK did not make it home alive from two tours in Iraq simply because he knew how to fly a helicopter and how to lead troops. He made it home alive, and so did a lot of the American and Iraqi troops associated with him, because he had fifteen years of experience to bring with him. (And, of course, the great equalizer, he was lucky.) </p>
<p>It’s just common sense that a standing military is a necessary part of our society. Having been a military spouse for 20+ years until my husband retired from the Marine Corps, I’m more than happy to be done with the military now. However, if our son chose to serve, as surely as it would nearly kill me, I would support him. We raised him to believe in the value of service, be it ones career or as a volunteer. I simply cannot, or perhaps will not, embrace the idea that it would be better for someone else’s child to die.</p>
<p>I just stumbled into this thread–all I can say is WOW. What vehemence against the military. WOW. My s is an officer in the Naval Reserves. He got there by attending the US Merchant Marine Academy–which is on Long Island in New York (way back to post #50 or so)–this is the US government-funded Merchant Marine Academy, a Federal service academy, I think the other merchant marine schools are state-funded. He wanted to go to a service academy since he was 13 and his Boy Scout troop went to the Naval Academy for a camporee. 9/11 occurred during his senior year in HS, which did not deter him. Do you know how difficult it is to get into a US service academy (I know some of you do)? It ranks right up there with an Ivy League college and in some respects is more difficult. Only the best and the brightest get into any of them. He has not served in one of the war zones, but he told me that if he did and something happened to him, we would know that he was doing what he wanted to do. He has sailed around the world and been in some very nasty places that I would never want to go to. He had a classmate who became a Navy pilot and was killed last year while riding his bicycle by a drunk driver–the dangers are everywhere, not just in war zones. </p>
<p>To the parent whose s was going to the Navy nuke school–excellent education. My s’ best friend went there after college and is now doing very well financially.</p>
<p>I am still just astounded at the military ignorance shown in this thread. We are not a military family either (father-in-law served in WWII, but didn’t almost everybody then?). To the OP, find out about what your son wants and support him, even challenge him (as we did our son), but don’t immediately jump to conclusions about his choice. The Marine Corps saved my brother-in-law, who came from a very dysfunctional family. He enlisted after drifting after HS, got out and went to college, then was commissioned as an officer and became a pilot and now makes a very nice living flying for one of the well-known cargo carriers.</p>
<p>I am not defending the gov’t’s choices, I am not sure Iraq was the way to go and always had my doubts, but if it wasn’t for the military there would be a lot more nasty things happening on our shores. Sad to see this much lack of support.</p>
<p>“Do you know how difficult it is to get into a US service academy (I know some of you do)? It ranks right up there with an Ivy League college and in some respects is more difficult. Only the best and the brightest get into any of them.”</p>
<p>Funny you should mention that. I was talking with a friend of mine awhile ago, who told me her nephew was in all sorts of trouble with the law, and they were thinking he was going to have to go to jail, or to a service academy. After my hysterical laughter stopped, I explained that the odds of getting into one of the academies is just as low as many of the Ivy Leagues, and that the kids needed to have great stats, be extremely physically fit, get a congressional recommendation and never have been in trouble with the law. She probably got the academies confused with some sort of boot camp for troublemakers. But no wonder she had a poor view of the military, she thought some of our best officers were felons!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have not served, nor do I come from a military family. Roughly two years ago, I joined an organization that provides free psychological services by licensed psychotherapists to members of the recent wars and their loved ones. While I don’t believe it applies to the OP, the comment I quoted can be said of many young people who join the military. We often see young people who have served and are now in college and some will say that the military saved them, that they didn’t do well in high school, were headed to trouble and that they credit the Marines (Army, etc.) for the life they now have and the determination to get through college, etc. Of course, there are risks. And yes, there can be PTSD and other issues which is why we are seeing them. But many of them feel very positively about their experience. I’m more familiar with the Marines, but there are some intangibles that people feel strongly about – the powerful bonds that are formed within a unit being one of them. It may not be for everyone, but it definitely is for some people.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is YMMV dependent on the individual. I’ve known neighborhood parents who were at-risk teens who found the military service…even in the Korean/Vietnam wars to enable them to have better career opportunities and to enable them to escape the dead end facing many similarly situated classmates. Same thing with older at-risk teens whose military service did the same for them. </p>
<p>On the other hand, most of the homeless and some of the drug addicts in my old neighborhood were also veterans who had serious psychological and other issues…whether arising from the war or from other causes. Some of them were even known by the neighborhood parents from their time in the service and they tried to provide as much help as they could.</p>
<p>Also, while the general trend has been that those who served in the military before tend to be heads and shoulders above their younger non-military counterparts in terms of maturity and academic seriousness/achievement, I’ve also encountered a few notable exceptions. </p>
<p>One which really stood out was one former Marine in an Ivy summer course who made a big deal about his prior experience as a junior NCO, in the second week started whining about the difficulty of the course/demands of the Prof that most…including other veteran classmates felt was manageable, and then heard from other vets in the class that he dropped the course sometime in the third week because he failed all the quizzes up to that point. </p>
<p>That really floored me as every former-military classmate in college courses I’ve sat in on or taken as a summer/special student up to that point tended to be at the very top academically and in terms of maturity.</p>
<p>As an aside, military service was also good for the older cousins who did serve…but they went in as officers after college and they themselves felt they didn’t have it as rough as the enlisted soldiers/sailors they lead.</p>
<p>kpmom06-Thank you…WOW was my response upon reading this thread as well. Also, not a military family prior to my son’s enlistment at age 25 (Navy spec ops). He was not an impressionable 18 year old but an honors college graduate with a great career and future in his civilian job. But he chose to enlist, also telling me he is doing what he wants and what he feels is right…that we will all die, whether at 18 or 85, “at least I know I’ll die for something.” Whether or not you agree with our government’s decisions/the military, each of our military personnel deserve respect for the honor and courage to put their life on the line for someone they have never met. It’s very hurtful to know that some Americans would be happy to see my son come home in a box.</p>
<p>Oh, and for the OP. there are forums/blogs (such as Navy for Moms, Navy Dads, I’m sure the other branches have similar resources) where you can get many of your questions answered by other parents.</p>
<p>" It’s very hurtful to know that some Americans would be happy to see my son come home in a box."</p>
<p>I must be missing something. There were some comments by people who here don’t support the actions of our politicians, nor hold soldiers in higher reguard than they do others. A few, not the majority. But are you actually implying that some people on this thread would be happy to see your son die? Who specifically are you talking about? Inflammatory and misleading comments don’t help anyone make their point.</p>
<p>I must have missed the posts you are talking about. And if you are just making a general comment about Americans, only somebody completely evil or insane would believe that.</p>
<p>I didn’t make that comment referred to in post #180, but somewhere in this thread somebody said that they’d rather someone else’s child die than theirs, so this may be what was referred to. And some of the vehemence would sure lead you to believe that some people might think this. Reminds me almost of when the troops were coming back from Vietnam–it wasn’t their fault they were there, they were just serving their country, but the public sure didn’t perceive it that way.</p>
<p>I’m sure, mtcbear, that you are quite proud of your son. My nephew also enlisted late (at age 26) and is doing Army spec ops.</p>
<p>I can understand the concern of the OP. </p>
<p>The members of the military follow the orders of the civilian leadership of the government, and they “protect free speech” and other fundamental freedoms only to the degree that the civilian leadership uses them for that purpose. When the civilian leadership is not interested in using the military to protect the population or to uphold constitutional principles, the military cannot reasonably object and change its mission. I cannot imagine that a government that passes laws like the Patriot Act or allows Presidents to assume extraordinary powers to imprison and execute US citizens can be that much interested in protecting constitutional principles (and I mean both Republicans and Democrats). With increasing corporate control of the civilian government (aided and abetted by a Supreme Court that often makes up new constitutional principles to serve certain ideological goals, e.g., in Citizens United), and the increasing influence of big money in elections, I suspect it will get much worse before it gets better.</p>
<p>As for pacifism, I believe the wisdom of that choice depends on the context. With a civilian leadership that cannot be trusted to follow the constitution, a military budget that is nearly as large as that of all other nations in the world combined, a set of military bases spanning the globe, and a recent history of invading nations for trumped up reasons usually with hidden purposes related to economic domination, pacifism in the present-day US seems like a good idea. Given that the US has by far the most well-financed and technologically advanced military on the planet, I would think that if US pacifists don’t stand up, pacifists in other countries don’t stand a chance.</p>
<p>But this is not meant to disparage the members of the US military. They are trying to defend their country and rightly believe that is a noble purpose. However, I just do not believe that this is the proper time or situation in which to contribute to that effort.</p>