<p>My dad is technically half black, but whenever he fills out any official forms, he always puts down that he is just black and not multiracial. I am a quarter black and the rest white, but I have always lived with my dad, and when I have to tell people my race or ethnicity, I say I am African-American/Caucasian. What I want to know is, do I qualify for minority scholarships? I definitely look much more white than black, but when I get a good tan, I often get mistaken for being spanish (lol). I have already gotten a couple university scholarships for being a minority, but I'm scared that I don't actually count as a minority and they will get taken away once I actually attend.</p>
<p>You need to look at specific requirements for each scholarship.</p>
<p>One quarter of a minority group counts.</p>
<p>Besides, you don’t have to prove anything. It doesn’t matter that you may not look “more white” or Hispanic.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Oops…meant to write…It doesn’t matter that you may look “more white”…</p>
<p>can someone tell me where to find information on african-american scholarships?</p>
<p>^^Go to the African American Students subforum under College Admissions.</p>
<p>OP, While as 1/4 AA, you likely qualify, I agree with tokenadult, that you must read the requirements of each individual scholarship.</p>
<p>sorry to jump in, but how do schools verify your race/ethnicity? do they even do that?</p>
<p>Generally race and ethnicity are through self-identification, but it definitely is up to each individual scholarship program. For instance, for the National Hispanic Recognition Program, students self-identify as Hispanic on the PSAT and if their score qualifies, the program asks the HS GC to confirm their ethnicity.</p>
<p>The only time I have heard of any kind of verification from a school is for NA students who must sometimes show their tribal affiliation.</p>
<p>OP, you are probably fine-- just check the individual awards if you’re nervous. </p>
<p>“sorry to jump in, but how do schools verify your race/ethnicity? do they even do that?”</p>
<p>Yes, race is through self-identification BUT there’s a check in place: Your school’s guidance counselor. Your race is on your school records and if you get awarded a Gates (for example) or are named a National Achievement Scholar and you are completely white, trust me, your guidance counselor will step in. (Well, for the Gates, you need recommendations and they tell the adults that it’s a minority program so you’re unlikely to get through the process if you’re not one of the categories.) As a matter of fact, my kids are multi-racial and the school only had one race chosen. When they applied for a scholarship for one of the other races, the school double-checked. My kid who applied to more competitive schools also had at least 2 schools call the guidance counselor and double-check the info on the application. (Kid was subsequently accepted so there were no problems.) </p>
<p>By the way, if someone is actually thinking of lying about their race (not the OP, just saying this because of this question), they should look up the recent case of a young man who faked transcripts to get into Harvard. He is facing charges because of fraud. I suspect that if anyone lied about their race to qualify for special scholarship $, they could face the same thing if found out.</p>
<p>I don’t think colleges verify ethnicity/race. Scholarship organizations may but not colleges. If a college contacts your GC it will be about academics, recommendations and the like.</p>
<p>The US is a melting pot. As long as you are not asking for money (URM scholarship) self identify however you wish. Most colleges will be happy to add another URM to their diversity report. I think colleges are supposed to look at the “whole” person, so I doubt self identifying yourself as a URM will give you much of an admissions advantage. Either way, self identification of race on college admissions forms is NOT fraud.</p>
<p>Aglages,</p>
<p>“I don’t think colleges verify ethnicity/race. Scholarship organizations may but not colleges. If a college contacts your GC it will be about academics, recommendations and the like.”</p>
<p>Aglages, my kid’s race was verified by two LACs through phone calls and I honestly think a few others when they visited the school. (And I say this because when we visited one top LAC to which my kid had applied and kid met the admissions officer, he said out, “You didn’t attend my visit to your school.” When I asked how he remembered, my kids said no black kids from my school probably attended and the admissions counselor said, “Right.” So they do take notice.) The phone calls to the gc were not about academics or recommendations; they were specifically to verify my kid’s story including race and after-school activities. By the way, I do think sometimes it’s a subtle verification process-- like asking the gc if the student would be interested in attending the visiting program for prospective minorities. But really, the gcs at my kids’ schools would not back an application if they get an inkling that a kid had lied on it – whether on activities, race, etc. </p>
<p>“Either way, self identification of race on college admissions forms is NOT fraud.” </p>
<p>Of course not, IF it’s the truth. Lying about race would constitute fraud. Fraud is not checking off AA if you’re 1/4 AA as the poster is. Fraud is checking off something you’re not. When you’re talking about top competitive schools, it will go against their honor code to lie. I agree that they’re unlikely to prosecute a fraud case based on race-- but they might get a student for lying on his application. But when you’re talking about schools that are not as highly ranked, you may be talking about $$. There are colleges out there that award scholarships specifically to kids from certain races and there is often not a separate appilcation process. You don’t have to “ask for money.” If you lie in your self-identification and are awarded $ (whether or not that was the intention), it is fraud. Each of my kids was unexpectedly awarded scholarship $ specifically geared toward his/her race from one school. And, in each of these cases, the kid didn’t ask for it or fill out a separate application process.</p>
<p>It’s really about your own identity.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth- I’m bi-racial, great stats and heading to MIT.
That said, I had to send a photo to several scholarships I applied to…I didn’t win those. Not bitter…just sharing an anecdote.</p>
<p>
I disagree. I know of a specific individual that applied to both public and private schools, checked Hispanic (although he wasn’t) and was accepted at each (despite being at the bottom of the middle 50% profile). Not one school called his guidance counselor to confirm his race according to the counselor. How do I know? The counselor is my neighbor and I asked her about it after hearing the story. She says she NEVER gets calls asking about race/ethnicity unless it has to to with the National Hispanic Recognition Program.</p>
<p>I stand by my statement: Unless you are applying for a specific URM scholarship (or perhaps interviewing at a tiny LAC that can remember every kid he saw at your HS), the colleges are not going to call and ask about your GC what your race/ethnicity.</p>
<p>
You are confusing fraud with lying. There is a HUGE difference.
Since I’m sure colleges wouldn’t admit students based on their race or heritage, I can’t imagine how self reporting your heritage/race would be taking advantage of any college. Certainly if you accepted a scholarship that was for African Americans ONLY and you were not, that would be problematic. But everyone has the ability to accept or turn down all scholarships. Most of which require some involvement from the applicant to even be awarded.</p>
<p>Aglages, </p>
<p>“I stand by my statement: Unless you are applying for a specific URM scholarship (or perhaps interviewing at a tiny LAC that can remember every kid he saw at your HS), the colleges are not going to call and ask about your GC what your race/ethnicity.” </p>
<p>Obviously, you just want to be right-- and the truth doesn’t matter. That’s fine but you shouldn’t post on this site if you don’t know what you’re talking about. The LACs I’m talking about are small but they’re not “tiny.” They are both ranked top-50. The school where the admissions officer said something is ranked top-20. These are schools that are instantly recognizable to students on cc so I think it’s a good warning. </p>
<p>“Certainly if you accepted a scholarship that was for African Americans ONLY and you were not, that would be problematic. But everyone has the ability to accept or turn down all scholarships. Most of which require some involvement from the applicant to even be awarded.”</p>
<p>And, once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. I can think of generous scholarships that were offered my kids that were just for minorities or AAs for which they didn’t apply separately. In both cases, these scholarships replaced need-based aid so they weren’t easily ‘dismissed.’ Plus, one put my kid into a program with mentoring, a laptop, etc. (an honors program to improve minority retention) so the kid was admitted directly into this program without ever applying-- not something you can easily dismiss. </p>
<p>I doubt the big state colleges check race but when you’re talking $ (and you <em>are</em> talking $ when you’re talking about schools that meet all need or offer scholarships for which you may not have applied), you would be a fool to lie on your application-- and yes, they could prosecute you (and/or throw you out) if found out.</p>
<p>some kid from my HS who’s in the year above me applied to one school as AA when he’s the whitest of white and super jewish, and he got a full-ride because he had high stats and was “AA”. he’s graduating next year. obviously they never checked. not sure how often this happens, but still, it makes you wonder…</p>
<p>There will always be examples of people getting away with something unethical or illegal, but anyone thinking that such examples are the norm are likely to have a rude awakening pretty quickly.</p>
<p>2collegewego: </p>
<p>There are any number of problems with your argument and I’ll start with the first.
How many high schools do you think the average LAC admissions counselor visits? To assume that they would remember your high school let alone the students that they DIDN’T see defies imagination UNLESS they are not visiting many high schools and seeing many students. Why did your LAC remember your school and the fact that none of the students were black? All white school? Perhaps your student didn’t attend his visit. I think your warning is a serious reach and doubt whether any decent size school’s admissions counselor would remember who didn’t attend a visit and probably wouldn’t risk offending a URM by mentioning that he didn’t see any black kids during the visit. </p>
<p>2nd: Google is your friend. Look up fraud and determine how self-reporting race is taking financial advantage of a college. Again if you are not accepting an URM scholarship then you are not defrauding anyone. Certainly colleges are not accepting students because of their race so you aren’t taking advantage of them that way either…right? Even if colleges are using race to determine who to accept (I sure hope not), it isn’t fraud. Check the definition.</p>
<p>3rd: Interesting take on URM scholarships. Sounds as though colleges are just throwing money at URMs even without them asking for it or agreeing to accept it. While being an URM probably does make getting scholarships easier to get, you are NOT required to take any of them. Particularly if you didn’t apply. A simple “No Thank You, I’m not comfortable accepting money just because of my race/ethnicity” will suffice. Let’s settle this question once and for all. Which scholarship at which schools MUST a URM accept and not be able to refuse?</p>
<p>Colleges that meet full need are meeting full financial need based on FAFSA or their own reporting forms. Are you suggesting that a black kid whose parents make $18K a year is going to get more need based aid than a white kid whose parents make $18K a year? Need is not supposed to determined by race or ethnicity. Self reporting yourself as an URM should not get you more need based aid from a school…regardless of what percentage of need a school claims to meet. </p>
<p>entomom: As for there always being examples of people getting away with something…strange we never hear about all (any?) of the kids that got caught doing this. In fact I’ve never heard of any. Considering how a college would want to make an example of something that they considered so unethical or illegal that they tossed a student out of the college, you would think we would hear of at least one incident instead of hearing about people who didn’t have a problem.</p>
<p>As you say, Google is your friend, first hit for ‘college application fraud’:</p>
<p>[Yale</a> Daily News - Yale no stranger to application fraud](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/features/2008/04/10/yale-no-stranger-to-application-fraud/]Yale”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/features/2008/04/10/yale-no-stranger-to-application-fraud/)</p>
<p>Aglages,</p>
<p>I completely believe that plenty of times schools don’t check-- but I’m telling you my kids had a couple of cases where the schools <em>did</em> check or would have found out and there was no way we would have known which colleges. </p>
<p>Your assumption that the college admissions officers visit few colleges is wrong. Again, these were top lacs so these men and women were on the road-- and my kids attended large, suburban public schools. I would have to check but one high school is at least 1/3 minority and the other was around half minority. By the way, my kids also sometimes met admissions officers at college affairs that were specifically for high-achieving minority students. It is the admissions officers job to remember the kids and the ones at the lacs seemed to do a pretty good job of it. (I can’t say that’s true for the universities.)</p>
<p>And I don’t need to google. I can assure you that lying on an application can get you in trouble at a selective college. I am sure there are kids who get away with it but there are some who don’t. </p>
<p>“Are you suggesting that a black kid whose parents make $18K a year is going to get more need based aid than a white kid whose parents make $18K a year? Need is not supposed to determined by race or ethnicity.” </p>
<p>First, they may be packaged differently. There are often scholarship funds that are restricted and these may be given out first. Second, I’m also saying that if a college is going out of its way to recruit a student for whatever reason, it may package them better. For example, my kid got preferential packaging and was told of admissions by one college several months before decisions were out (was also offered a plane ticket to visit the school). I can’t say it was because of race (because none of those funds were earmarked for minorities and kiddo was academically strong for that school) but I will say it was one of the schools where the admissions officer called the gc and verified the info on the application. (Unlike what you suggest, the admissions officer actually did not verify grades by phone I presume because those came directly from the high school. What the admissions officer verified was what the student reported.) </p>
<p>“Need is not supposed to determined by race or ethnicity. Self reporting yourself as an URM should not get you more need based aid from a school…regardless of what percentage of need a school claims to meet.”</p>
<p>Need is not determined by race or ethnicity-- but a school may want a student more, perhaps because of his race or ethnicity or a school may have funds specifically set aside for students of a particular race or ethnicity. And, as far as your phrase “regardless of what percentage of need a school claims to meet” actually is a very important point. Colleges that meet 100% of need may package students differently but colleges that do not meet 100% of need do not meet need equally. So a student who the school wants (because he is an excellent athlete or a minority or of a particular religion or geographic group that ties in to the school’s mission) may have more of their need met. So yes, to that degree, a student may get more need-based $ based on something other than need. This does not have to be race-- it could be that a student is from the area around the school, has a particular talent or something like that-- but most colleges that give out institutional $ do not do so equally to all students and they may use their institutional priorities to disburse aid. </p>
<p>As far as what scholarships must be accepted… had my kids chosen to attend the schools that offered them the unexpected scholarship $ for minority students, they would have had to accept the $ because we could not have afforded those schools otherwise. Those were part of their financial aid packages and a substantial part: one was a half-tuition scholarship and the at least $7K a year. It would have been hard for us to make up that $.</p>
<p>
I thought we were discussing whether self reporting race/ethnicity incorrectly was fraud and whether there have been any reports of colleges dismissing students or prosecuting them for an error in self-reporting? Do you have any links or examples where this has occurred?</p>