<p>Those Guiness ads aren't an exaggeration. The Irish use brilliant at least once in every sentence.</p>
<p>"A good teacher will be confident enough in his expertise to admit a mistake without getting defensive."</p>
<p>Really, my son had a teacher in fifth grade who asked what America's first colony was. My son answered Roanoke - she said he should have known she meant "first successful colony" and refused to give him credit. From that day on that teacher could do no right in his eyes. Luckily it was only fifth grade.</p>
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S now has an APUSH teacher who says he will give no "A's" first semester...his name does not go on the transcript, so colleges won't be able to recognize him as the "no-"A"-first-semester-guy."
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<p>Our son's APUSH teacher gave the same speech at Meet the Teacher night. He said that everyone's grade shot up in June when they started in on Regent's review work. We were a little worried, but it turned out he pass out at least some As, even first marking period.</p>
<p>Mathmom...that's my son's secret hope...he told his little brother (my occasional informant) that he will try to be the first to get an "A" after the first semester...but he's not the only one to push the APUSH teacher's envelope...and most just work their heads off for their "B's." Whatever. My major problem with the whole scenario is with a teacher who decides not to award grades on the merit of the work...it's like taking a job from a boss who says he won't promote you no matter what...
Stickershock...I can just see the teacher from Ireland, who writes a college recommendation: "Aye, the laddie's brilliant, just like this ale!"</p>
<p>That settles it. We'll go to Ireland for our kids' recommendations!</p>
<p>Re the teacher with the crown: Nope, not so "brilliant" at all. He wanted them to know what's going on in the world, so his solution was that they were required to watch World News Tonight on ABC every Tuesday. S grew up in a family where we get our news from newspapers, and lots of them, so this in itself was a big pain in the neck. Then, the next day, they got quizzed on the news, and the teacher often asked about the trivial, non-news items. To top it off, if everyone in the class got a 100 on the quiz, he gave them each an extra 100. S ended up in the section where they never, ever got this, though he got consistent 100s. (what lesson taught here--he should cheat to make sure everyone got a 100?) The top kids in his year were all in another section, which consistently got the extra points. Which, it turned out, probably made a difference in rank, as we go to minuscule percentage differences in our school. Not something that overly concerned him, but basically unfair. It meant he was getting lower grades than other people doing the exact same work. (I'm sure it bothered me more than him!)</p>
<p>Personally, S and the teacher got along very well, but I think he learned despite the teacher's methods, not because of them.</p>
<p>That stinks, garland. I thought the crown was funny & assumed he was trying to get kids to focus on learning, not lining up after every test to nit-pick over grades. Teachers shouldn't be dictators, but sometimes those pushover types allow grade-grubbers to take up class time trying to bully the teacher into a higher grade. </p>
<p>World News Tonight requirement? Nonsense. Did kids have to tape it if they were out? What if the mom would break out in hives if she had to listen to Peter Jennings and this assignment created a health crisis in the family? </p>
<p>I agree that giving kids the impression that a brief TV news show will keep them informed is a bad idea.</p>
<p>Am late to the table but will agree w/Mollie re: grades and grade consciousness and why MIT cares. Son graduated this past June--MIT is not a good place for a kid who is going to be jockeying for the TA who is lenient about problem sets, not a good place for the kid trying to get an angle by choosing one version of a class over another; not a good place for a kid who is convinced that his or her future depends on any one quiz or test or project.</p>
<p>It is hard.... very hard. Some classes it seems the kids are thrilled with C's (Hey, I'm average!). There is a ton of information which has to be assimilated; lots and lots of stuff that's going on outside the lecture hall (labs and simulations and research and what-not) and based on my son's experience, a kid who is worried about GPA is not going to take advantage of the really wonderful things that are all around.</p>
<p>I don't fault the institution for asking a HS teacher to give some insights as to what motivates an applicant, and I don't think it's hypocritical to look for top grades and scores, but to nuance that with an evaluation of how much of a kid's psyche is occupied with all this performance stuff. The work is hard; the core curriculum itself has a very high bar, and it seems perfectly consistent to me that MIT wants kids who learn quickly, do well academically, but don't spend their time recalculating their GPA or asking, "what are my chances at MIT".</p>
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Yep. My problem is the whole concept of evaluation of motivation and nuances involved by an overworked high school teacher. I don't believe I want my kid's motivation judged by someone who hasn't talked with her about it and may very well be mistaken. Quality of work? Sure. Have at it. But what makes her tick? I don't think so. </p>
<p>I agree with both you and Mollie and I'll extend it way past MIT. I don't think any kid should be motivated solely by grades and one that is should be ferreted out. But did y'all notice the post about the brilliant guy with the 4.0 a couple back by dmd? dmd seemed to use the 4.0 as an indicator or evidence of brilliance. It's very common.;)</p>
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If that's the case, then ask "Does this kid learn quickly?" I have no problem with it. Seems fair, concise, understandable. Just ask what it is that you want to know in simple English. </p>
<p>And if they want to know if a kid is overly concerned with grades to the point that it intereferes with their learning, then ask "Are they overconcerned with their grades to the point that it interferes with their learning?" </p>
<p>Cut all the nuanced, secret code stuff out. Let everybody be on the same dang page for once.</p>
<p>Cur, I don't somehow find the nuance here.There is no question that kids with overworked HS teachers who don't know them are handicapped in college admissions.... but to imply that MIT is using a secret code by asking about grades is pretty funny. In your scenario, it's unfair that all of the colleges ask for some sort of ranking (this is the most brilliant kid I've ever taught; this kid is in the top 5% or whatever) since the same overworked HS teacher can hardly be expected to recall who he or she has taught over the years.</p>
<p>But what's the solution? Eliminate recc's entirely so that the whole application form can be filled out by helicopter mommy and daddy? The recc's strike me as the only genuine note in the entire process.... an adult, who is not related to the applicant, gets to weigh in on the kid, without test prep, fancy counselors, a 3 page annotated resume and essay edited by a professional, etc. </p>
<p>If there's a secret code out there, I think lots of parents and kids are in deep denial about how to decode it. Adcom's from MIT (and many other schools) can stand up in an info session and declare that the application is designed to be complete.... the thicker the file, the thicker the kid, etc. and well meaning parents here will post all day that you need a resume and a cover letter and footnotes explaining the significance of the "Garden Club service award" since you couldn't possibly cram all your distinctiveness and athletic accomplishments onto one tiny block of space.</p>
<p>Why not drop the conspiracy theory and assume that IF a college wanted more stuff on the application, someone would figure out how to draw more lines on the page? Why not assume that if the range of 25-75 SAT's is posted, you should surmise that all things being equal, high scores are better than low scores, but that a truly accomplished student whose testing is not the best reflection of his or her record should still apply? Why not assume that if a college says that unstructured time is important to a developing intellect, that you don't have to stuff your kids afternoons with 9 activities to prove that he or she is a Renaissance kid (as if there were such a thing as a Renaissance teenager, for god's sake.)</p>
<p>Where you see a code, I see a long, pretty obvious trail that the schools publish on their websites and state categorically in their admissions material. The fact that someone thinks they can read the tea leaves.... well, have at it.</p>
<p>IMHO, average at MIT is not average. They take the top math/sci kids in the country and set them on the vertical. Anywhere else, these kids would be at the top of their universities.
I like the "does the kid learn quickly?" question. That is really the essence of intelligence. I used to volunteer in my kids' classrooms...it was amazing to me that the teachers thought the smart ones were the kids who came in knowing the curriculum (Mom's Kumon dollars at work). I thought the ones who had never seen the material but grasped it immediately were the smart ones.</p>
<p>blossom, chill. As I said before, I have no ax to grind with MIT. My problem is with the process of selective admissions. I'd be more than happy to remove all mention of MIT from my posts and start a new thread but....this one was going. It was handy. Sorry . Please read Harvard wherever you see MIT. ;) I don't see any conspiracy. I see inefficiency and inaccuracy that results in unfairness. A big difference. I am also offering suggestions to improve the process. .</p>
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I thought the ones who had never seen the material but grasped it immediately were the smart ones.
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<p>I agree. And I was amazed at the kids in my d's grade school class who were using SAT prep books for the CTY tests, defeating the whole purpose of the program.</p>
<p>I don't see the trouble lying so much with the process as it is with all the inequities that come before. The points that have been raised about the varying abilities of teachers to sell a student via recommendation struck home with me.</p>
<p>In Louisiana, we have a non-competitive state-funded scholarship program at our state Us. The curriculum, GPA, and ACT requirements are all well within reach for average, even some below average, students. The scholarship (TOPS) even has an option for vocational and technical school. TOPS is open to all Louisiana high school students, but was designed with low to very low income students in mind. We are the poorest state in the union, so it shouldn't be hard finding them, right?</p>
<p>At some urban, high poverty, high schools with graduating classes of 500 or more, not one senior is getting TOPS, or a handful at most. My own alma mater, regretfully, was in this number before the flood closed it. The gcs and the teachers aren't getting the word out, and kids are finding out in their senior year that they missed a curriculum requirement that it's now too late to make up. Or the gcs don't spread the word about deadlines and application forms, and parents (many of whom didn't finished high school themselves) just assume that if their child is qualified, the scholarship will happen automatically.</p>
<p>This isn't a new program; it started nearly 20 years ago--and the system still hasn't caught up to what it needs to do to make sure that the very kids this program was designed for are able to access it. If they can't do that, how on earth are they going to be able to properly educate, advise and recommend a student for a place like MIT? The fact that some do make it to elite universities from our lowest-performing high schools--and do well there--suggests that without all the obstacles, the number could be much greater.</p>
<p>So to me, the real issue isn't what process MIT uses to select which 11% of their highly qualified applicant pool to admit. The real issue is that in a country as great and majestic as ours, the number of highly qualified applicants for a school like MIT is only about 9x the number of beds in the dorms. I'd love to see that number double, triple even...but then I think MIT really would have to just pull names out of a hat.</p>
<p>"So to me, the real issue isn't what process MIT uses to select which 11% of their highly qualified applicant pool to admit. The real issue is that in a country as great and majestic as ours, the number of highly qualified applicants for a school like MIT is only about 9x the number of beds in the dorms."</p>
<p>Or stated another way, what sort of kid should be encouraged to apply to MIT (with the assumption of course that every such applicant has an equal chance of being admitted)?</p>
<p>Taking aim at admissions anxiety</p>
<p>New article about Marilee Jones
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/09/18/admissions.game.ap/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/09/18/admissions.game.ap/index.html</a></p>
<p>LOVE that woman. She's a mom and she gets it. It's a step in exactly the right direction. Someone has to take that step...and I love that 70 spaces are open for kids who have a spark. Excellent. Thanks for the article. Is her beautiful daughter in college yet?</p>
<p>Isn't this the same article that got the thread started?</p>
<p>Much of the article is the same (and repeats many points that Marilee Jones has made before). It seems expanded updated to include her reaction to Harvard's decision to abandon SCEA. AND it has pictures of her and her D!</p>