<p>Nationwide, I’m sure that 3.8’s are much more common than 36’s. But assuming that post #16 is correct that top universities have 50% 36’s, then that means 36’s are much more common at those schools.</p>
<p>Even if we don’t make any assumptions about post #16, I still suspect a 36 is easier than a 3.8 from (say) Princeton. But I don’t have any data to support that. I might dig around Duke’s numbers a little bit and see what I can turn up.</p>
<p>Well, Duke doesn’t release the numbers I’m interested in. But you can see Emory’s grid here:
<a href=“http://career.emory.edu/parents/pdf/Applicants_Emory_2008_Matrix.pdf[/url]”>http://career.emory.edu/parents/pdf/Applicants_Emory_2008_Matrix.pdf</a></p>
<p>Notice that only 24 Emory premeds have 3.8+, while 26 have 36+. That’s a about a 1:1 ratio, ,but you’d expect this ratio to keep rising as you get to higher-and-higher powered schools.</p>
<p>As another note, 26 out of 318 (8.2%) is really staggeringly low. Do we think the gap from Emory to other top-level schools is that large? Does anybody have grids for other programs?</p>
<p>BDM: If I read it correctly, there are 51 who are 3.8+. There are 27 with 3.9+ and 24 with 3.8-3.89. 27 + 24 = 51.
I
f this is correct, at least for students at Emory, a 36+ MCAT is indeed harder.</p>
<p>I notice that the number of students with 3.4+ MCAT is about the same as the number of students with a 3.8+ GPA.</p>
<p>I agree with you that “ratio to keep rising as you get to higher-and-higher powered schools.”</p>
<p>Another unknown factor is how many students here are graduated with a perceived “easier” major in term of grading. (Of course, all these students, since they are premeds, have been through the pre-req classes which may pull down their GPAs in one course or another.)</p>
<p>Silly me; your reading of the data is right. I forgot to include the 3.9+ students. As mentioned, the percentage of students with 36’s strikes me as astonishingly low – but I don’t have any data to compare it to.</p>
<p>So, it seems that my perception of mcat = 36 harder to achieve than gpa 3.8 is correct. Supports benefits of being in combined program, even the one that reguires MCAT with exception of WUSL (reguirement is 3.8 and 36).</p>
<p>Yes, at Emory you’re right. My intuition stands, though, that at Duke (along with the schools he mentions in post #16) the 3.8 is harder. Unfortunately I don’t have any data to back me up, but we do know that Emory students get into medical school at a frightening 55% clip, giving us good reason to suspect that Emory’s MCAT scores are horrendously low for unknown reasons.</p>
<p>Not sure why this supports combined programs, since we’re comparing requirements to each other, and at excessively levels for both combined programs and general medical school admissions (nobody NEEDS a 36). Evidence that would support your claim would be that 30’s are much harder than 2300’s or something like that.</p>
<p>Like I said, if you want to browse mdapplicants.com, just search for students from, say, Harvard. If you have the time and patience you can average everyone´s MCAT score. The only ones that I did reliably were Harvard and Yales, which were around 36 and 35 respectively. Once again, this is probably too high, simply because someone is much more likely to brag about a 38 than own up to a 31, especially at places that are ultra competitive.</p>
<p>Anyways, here is some official data which doesn´t factor in schools, but DOES show that nationwide it is easier to get a 3.8 than a 36. </p>
<p>[FACTS</a> Table: MCAT and GPA Grid for Applicants and Accepted Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools](<a href=“http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm]FACTS”>http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm)</p>
<p>In the past few years, 24,000 applicants have gotten a 3.8 or higher. About 7,000 or 8,000 have gotten a 36 or higher (make sure to add up both the 36 to 38 and 39 to 45 columns).</p>
<p>BDM,
In regard to combined programs, what I meant is that a lot of them do not reguire MCAT at all, others reguire only average or below average mcat to obtain a spot in Med. School. Since above average MCAT is hard to get, while GPA reguirement is not as big of a deal to achieve since it is much more under student control, being in combined program is beneficial. It gives more chances of getting into Med. School after 4 hard working years in UG because of lower MCAT reguirement.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can generalize about combined programs, because they differ so much. Some simply require a reasonable level of academic performance, and no MCAT, and you are assured the med school. Others insist that your performance, including MCAT, is at the level of the other students in the med school. The Wash U system is fine for those who can hack it, but of course with a 3.8 and 36 your chances of admission to med school are pretty darn good anyway (but not promise it will be at a top 5 place).</p>
<p>afan,
You did not read all posts, I have excluded WUSL program before, I am not aware of any benefits to go to program with such stringent reguirements. Other programs either do not reguire mcat or reguire average or below average mcat to have a spot at Med. School in a program. And if the goal is to be MD without attaching elite school to your name (there are a lot of people with such a goal), then combined program is a way to go.</p>
<p>One disadvantage of going that route, as I see it, is: What if the student changes her/his mind after s/he has been in the program? There are much more good colleges than the colleges with a combined program.</p>
<p>Another delicate point is that, at the high school level, the parents may have more influences on their child’s decision. It is generally better (in my opinon) for the child to make his/her choice when s/he is more mature. Well, it may be somewhat hypocrite for me to say this as I am also a parent of a premed and I may be “guilty” in influencing my child’s career decision in one way or another 
Of course, if your child does know that medicine is his/her calling in high school, there will be no such potential problem.</p>
<p>One family that my friend knows just had a major feud between the parents and their child who is at some prestigious college because the parents want their child to continue on his premed track and the child says on. He is a rising sophomore. MiamiDAP, I know this is not the case for you. But this could happen to some family.</p>
<p>mcat2,
That is whole other discussion in regard to better / worse colleges for particular student. For example, if it was not for acceptance to combined program, D would have gone to a different school (this one accepted her with huge Merit $$, but rejected her from combined program). She happened to go to her #2 choice. She has visited both of schools numerous times with overnites. Lately she has visited her original #1 with her friend who is attending there. D’s comment was that she is happy that she went to #2. The perception of school by high schooler and college student is very different. To get yourself placed in a school of good “fit” is much more a matter or luck. D. happened to get lucky in this respect and attaching spot in combined program is not so bad either. By the way she has chosen to be in a program (she had choice of 3) that allows complete flexibility in regard to major (there are Music majors at selective conservatory of music in this combined bs/md program), applying out to different Med. school, still retaining your spot, taking as many years as you wish to graduate and not be separated anyhow from general student body. The benefit is as has been discussed here, no need to obtain mcat higher than average, which seems to be an obstacle to many very good students.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, It seems it works out great for you.</p>
<p>Regarding:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My child may be drooling if he had this opportunity (the music part, not the combined program part.) He has been taking one music class EVERY semester since freshman year, maybe as a reward for himself for working so hard on premed stuff. His MCAT preparation work this summer includes a detour like going to some professional recording studio, an opportunity their band “earned” at a competition last semester. I even suspect that their band might perform on the street to promote something for a couple of evenings (maybe even right before mid-term :-() last semester (my speculation only, not very sure, and dare not ask.)</p>
<p>“The MCAT is hard” is a fair enough reason to take a combined program if it’s true; the bottom line is that the specific numbers we’re talking about have no bearing on this particular argument. Medical schools don’t require a 36, so the difficulty of a 36 no longer matters for your argument. And comparing it to a 3.8 certainly doesn’t matter, since that’s (1) also higher than requirement and (2)a college output, not an input, so it doesn’t tell you much about underlying capabilities.</p>
<p>If you argued that a 30 was very difficult compared to a 2350, that would be relevant. A 36 compared to a college-level 3.8 (especially when colleges vary so much) is not.</p>
<p>mcat2,
My D’s minor is Music Composition. She has exactly the same feeling about her nusic classes as your son, it is a great treat and relaxation for her. She absolutely loves it. But she is also enjoying her much more challenging science classes. </p>
<p>In regard to 36 is easier than 3.8, it remains to be seen for D with GPA=4.0. She is not sure about it at all, she likes that she needs only 27.</p>