<p>As a current Clark student looking to transfer, I (and many of my peers who are transferring) find it to be highly OVERrated. They put this semi-prestigious, highly-academic spin on it, but then you get there and you’re surrounded by alcoholic/drug-addicted morons who spend more time partying than studying! Additionally, Clark seems to attract rich kids who were too dumb to get into an Ivy. Don’t get me wrong, the academics are great… but the atmosphere is less than desirable! Not to mention, it’s in one of the worst neighborhoods of Worcester!</p>
<p>Does anybody notice that most underrated places tend to be LACs and most overrated are the more popluar universities?</p>
<p>not rooted near it but gotta say the most overrated college on this forum is probably washington university in saint louis</p>
<p>NY:
underrated-geneseo, colgate
overrated-nyu</p>
<p>MA:
overrated-harvard, mit</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Typical Wolverine trying to prop up his ego by pushing a school up to where it’s not. Also typical Wolverine by not realizing that she said UMich is a good school, just not on “Ivy” level- which it’s NOT. Again, typical Wolverine by bashing MSU when she even said MSU was not as prestigious as UMich. </p>
<p>Typical Wolverine. There, does your ego feel better now that you’ve bashed someone else? Hmm?</p>
<p>I agree, I would never go to USC. Only thing they have going for them is the film program. However, Chapman’s film is very good too.</p>
<p>Massachusetts
overrated - BC
underrated - Brandeis, Northeastern, Bentley, Babson, Holy Cross</p>
<p>California</p>
<p>Id say UCSB is overrated because of its party atmosphere. Where im from, UCSB is regarded as “better” then UCI and UCD even though both of these universities are more difficult to get into.</p>
<p>Claremont Colleges, UCI, and UCSD are definately underrated.</p>
<p>virginia -
washington & lee - not underrated necessarily, but unnoticed bc it’s so small
tech - overrated. everyone in my high school wants to go there but unless you’re planning on majoring in engineering, there’s nothing exclusive or special there for you. you could get the same education anywhere. the football’s awesome though.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I def. agree with you there. 100%. Not many know about Geneseo. I’m sure NYU’s a good school, but IMO, it’s not on par with Columbia. People always lump the two together.</p>
<p>Let me add:</p>
<p>underrated: URochester, Vassar, Binghamton, CUNY Macaulay Honors… CUNY in general
overrated: Fordham, St John’s (costs about 30 grand/year for a CUNY quality education… 'scuse me?)</p>
<p>^^^
vassar = loveee</p>
<p>“Typical Wolverine. There, does your ego feel better now that you’ve bashed someone else? Hmm?”</p>
<p>Typical Sparty. Replying to a post that is nearly 3 months old.</p>
<p>State - Missouri
Overrated - St. Louis University, University of Missouri at Kansas City
Underrated - Truman State University</p>
<p>“And yes, many of us do see MSU and UMich as a toss-up. Maybe it’s because we couldn’t give a rat’s behind where USNews ranks them. Perhaps, just MAYBE, it’s more about the school than the prestige <em>gasp</em>! Btw, for me it was no toss-up. MSU won by leaps and bounds.”</p>
<p>This article is for you romanigypsyeyes:</p>
<p>As U-M builds up, MSU cuts back | detnews.com | The Detroit News</p>
<p>Last Updated: March 02. 2010 3:57PM
Reshaping Michigan’s universities
As U-M builds up, MSU cuts back
Ron French and Marisa Schultz / The Detroit News</p>
<p>The University of Michigan and Michigan State University are separated by 60 miles and a few billion dollars. Both are public universities. Both have fiercely loyal alumni and are a few thousand apart in numbers of students. Yet MSU is enacting painful program cuts and layoffs, while U-M is adding staff and is in the midst of one of the biggest building booms in school history. The budget gap between the two schools has ballooned to almost a half-billion dollars per year and is growing.</p>
<p>How the state’s most prestigious universities have weathered rough economic times is a tale of two budgets and the impact those budgets have on students, their parents and the state.</p>
<p>The recent annual conference of the Association of Public and Land-grant Universities was a grim affair. Huddled in a covey of banquet rooms in the basement of a Washington, D.C., hotel in November, provosts from across the country shared tales of budget cuts and tuition hikes.</p>
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<p>“People are freaked out,” said Jane Wellman, executive director of the Delta Project on Postsecondary Education Costs, Productivity and Accountability, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit studying trends in college spending. “The budget picture at public universities varies from not good to terrible.”</p>
<p>MSU’s struggles are a reflection of the turmoil facing public universities across the country, as cash-strapped states slash funds for higher education. Public universities receive funding from states, allowing the schools to offer tuition at a far lower rate to in-state students than students pay at private colleges. Tuition for Michigan students is $10,880 at MSU and $11,659 at U-M, compared to an average of $26,273 at private colleges in Michigan and across the United States.
MSU’s picture troubled</p>
<p>But state financial support to Michigan public universities has dropped throughout the decade. MSU received $321 million in state appropriations in 2000; a decade later, it received $284 million, even before accounting for inflation.</p>
<p>State support that made up 52 percent of MSU’s budget a decade ago now pays only 29 percent of the school’s bills. MSU officials expect state funds to dip even lower next year.</p>
<p>“Reductions in (state) budgets to higher education of 10 percent to 30 percent are becoming commonplace,” Wellman said.</p>
<p>On Oct. 30, MSU President Lou Anna K. Simon stood before the board of trustees announcing the “reshaping” of the Big Ten school, a euphemism for one of the biggest contractions in academic programs in the college’s 154-year history. Over two years, MSU plans to slash four dozen academic programs with nearly 2,000 enrolled students and eliminate about 300 jobs from the East Lansing campus. Simon told the trustees she needed to hack $50 million from the budget.</p>
<p>“We understand that all programs that we offer are important,” Simon said at the time. “We also understand that they are much higher quality than many that are offered elsewhere. And that makes this task even more difficult.”</p>
<p>Targeted cuts include American studies, geological science, business pre-law and the College of Education’s deaf education program, as well as the veterinary technology bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>Programs that are home to more than 600 students in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences would be eliminated, including the undergraduate retailing and communicative science and disorders majors.</p>
<p>“This is the most (cuts) I’ve ever seen and the most stress the campus has ever been under,” said Roger Smeltekop, 63, a MSU professor for more than 30 years, who teaches music therapy, one of the programs targeted early for closure. MSU’s music therapy program, founded in 1944, is the oldest in the nation.</p>
<p>Provost Kim Wilcox said the university tried to eliminate programs with low enrollments or that were similar to those offered through other departments. Students enrolled in any of the eliminated programs will be allowed to finish their degree. Still, the elimination of almost one-sixth of MSU’s bachelor’s programs sent shock waves through the campus and sparked rallies, impassioned pleas and petition drives to save them. “It’s just wretched,” said MSU student Josh Chapin, 22, who studied music therapy. “They are cutting deaf education, jazz voice … a lot of things at this university that it’s absolutely known for.”</p>
<p>In addition to the 300 positions expected to be eliminated within two years, dozens of graduate students are expected to lose funding for their teaching assistantships, meaning class sizes could grow for the freshman and sophomore courses they typically teach, or the small weekly breakout discussion sessions in large lecture classes will be eliminated.</p>
<p>While no tenure or tenure-track faculty will be laid off, some who leave or retire may not be replaced.</p>
<p>“I don’t anticipate I’ll be able to hire for several years,” said Stephen Arch, chairman of MSU’s English department. As faculty leave or retire, “we will get smaller as a faculty … (but teach) the same number of students. We’ll have to adapt somehow and provide a quality education. I’m not sure how to do that yet, but we’re working on it.”</p>
<p>Arch has attended several faculty meetings at which Simon laid out the school’s economic woes. At those meetings, according to Arch, one question is often asked: “Why is MSU facing massive cuts while the University of Michigan isn’t?”
U-M booming</p>
<p>Instead of laying off staff, the Ann Arbor campus is hiring faculty. The university is in the midst of a $30 million effort to add 100 instructors to broaden its interdisciplinary studies program, on top of normal hiring.</p>
<p>Because U-M’s historic competitors for faculty nationwide – Harvard, Stanford and the University of California at Berkley, for example – are not hiring, it has been able to scoop up more of its first choices for faculty.</p>
<p>“It has been amazing – we got our top choices every single time and managed to raid specialists at various levels from many centers of excellence around the country,” said Thomas Zurbuchen, associate dean for entrepreneurial programs in the College of Engineering.</p>
<p>U-M President Mary Sue Coleman boasted of the school’s ability to “capitalize on the economic downturn” during her annual State of the University speech in October. “If there is a benefit to the recession and the fact our peers are not making (job) offers, it is that the University of Michigan is in an opportune position to recruit … (and) move forward with a research expansion unlike any other in higher education,” Coleman said.</p>
<p>State funding has declined to both U-M and MSU over the past decade. But because U-M gets more revenue from other sources, the decline has had less impact in Ann Arbor than in East Lansing. The share of U-M’s budget provided by the state declined from 36 percent in 2000 to 22 percent today.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the sounds of construction echo across the sprawling campus. Nine major buildings have been completed recently or are under construction, with five more prepared to break ground. Coupled with the $108 million purchase of the 30-building, 174-acre former research site of Pfizer Inc., it’s one of the biggest building booms in school history, totaling more than $1.7 billion and adding or renovating 17 million square feet.</p>
<p>In one recent comparison, the new Broad Art Museum on MSU’s campus was delayed because of trouble with fundraising and executing the design within the $45 million budget. Meanwhile, U-M asked donors to fund a $42 million expansion to the Museum of Art – and collected $90 million – enough for the construction, an endowment and new art to fill the new wing. The U-M Museum of Art expansion opened last year; ground hasn’t been broken for MSU’s Broad Museum.
Budget gap grows</p>
<p>The growing budget gap – Michigan spent $34,000 per student in 2009 while MSU spent $20,000 per student – is the result of several factors:</p>
<p>• More out-of-state students. Nonresident students pay triple the tuition of Michigan residents at U-M and about 2 1/2 times more at MSU. In addition, a higher percentage of out-of-state students pay full price to attend U-M than MSU, further boosting the economic benefit of those students.</p>
<p>While MSU has a larger student body (47,000 to 41,000), U-M has triple the percentage of out-of-state students (roughly 33 percent to 11 percent). That difference is the major reason U-M raked in $300 million more than MSU in tuition and fees last year.</p>
<p>• Endowment. U-M had an endowment of $6 billion in 2009, compared to $1 billion for MSU. While the endowments of both schools grew substantially in the past decade, the gap between the schools has widened. Since 2000, MSU’s endowment has grown from $310 million; U-M’s swelled from $3.5 billion.</p>
<p>Because U-M’s endowment dwarfs MSU’s, the Ann Arbor school can use more endowment money to fund scholarships, faculty and research. The money withdrawn from U-M’s endowment in 2009 alone was $244 million, equivalent to about half of the budget gap between the two universities.</p>
<p>• Fundraising. U-M and MSU have roughly the same number of alumni, yet U-M raises almost twice as much money from its graduates and supporters. In 2009, MSU raised $138 million; U-M gathered in $266 million, vacuuming up almost $30,000 an hour in 2008.
MSU’s growing pains</p>
<p>Wilcox, the MSU provost, is optimistic about the university’s future. In a state in its eighth year of recession, MSU’s budget troubles are still relatively minor. He pitches the closure of programs and the loss of jobs as growing pains necessary to realign the school to succeed in the 21st century.</p>
<p>MSU is cutting small programs rather than slowly bleeding all of them, in a process Michael Boulus calls “organized abandonment.”</p>
<p>“They will be strong in what they do best,” said Boulus, executive director of the Presidents Council of State Universities of Michigan, a nonprofit advocacy group. “It’s not a compromise of quality.”</p>
<p>MSU is scrambling to bring in more nonresident students to boost tuition revenue. The percentage of nonresident students newly enrolled at MSU has more than doubled in four years, with 23 percent of this year’s freshmen coming from outside the state.</p>
<p>“They’re looking for them to be cash cows for the university,” said Wellman, the Delta Project executive director.</p>
<p>“Everybody’s trying to do it, and at some point there are not going to be that many students rattling around wanting to pay full price to attend an out-of-state public university. I think we’ve just about reached that ceiling.”
Adding foreign students</p>
<p>MSU may not run into that enrollment ceiling because it is focusing its recruitment on places like the Philippines rather than Philadelphia.</p>
<p>In three years, the number of incoming freshmen from foreign countries has more than tripled, from 355 three years ago to 1,210 this year.</p>
<p>MSU also is ramping up its fundraising efforts, going as far as hiring away U-M’s highly acclaimed head of fundraising, Robert Groves, who led the most successful capital campaign in the history of public universities while at U-M.</p>
<p>“It looks as if we got into the development (fundraising) area relatively late compared to other universities,” said Dave Byelich, MSU budget director.</p>
<p>Jesse Draper said he hopes MSU finds a budget solution quickly. The 35-year-old doctoral student in American studies gets a stipend and health insurance as one of MSU’s 1,400 teaching assistants. His job is expected to be on the chopping block.</p>
<p>Unless he can transfer to another department, he will likely be dropping out and looking for work.</p>
<p>“It’s either really forward thinking or it’s going to be tragic,” Draper said. “Unfortunately I’m just caught in the crossfire of growing pains.”</p>
<p>From The Detroit News: <a href=“Detroit Local News - Michigan News - Breaking News - detroitnews.com”>Detroit Local News - Michigan News - Breaking News - detroitnews.com;
<p>rj, I’ve seen that and commented on it. </p>
<p>I don’t see your point to be completely honest. I’ve NEVER said that UMich had less resources or anything of the kind than MSU.</p>
<p>I liked MSU the school, the culture, the people, the programs, the location, etc. Most of that stuff in that article doesn’t affect me. </p>
<p>Both UMich and MSU are getting brand new art museums. </p>
<p>MSU has always had more in-state students than OOS students. As a public university of the state of Michigan, it is their job to educate the people of Michigan first, and OOSers second.</p>
<p>“I don’t see your point to be completely honest. I’ve NEVER said that UMich had less resources or anything of the kind than MSU.”</p>
<p>My point is that Michigan is considerably stronger than MSU academically, financially, and in prestige. Whether you want to accept it or not, academically it is a peer of some of the ivy league schools. The PA scores at USNWR acknowledge it as well, once again whether you want to believe it or not. I was not the one who stated that Michigan was overrated months ago in this thread. That was done by one of your fellow Spartans.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve never denied it. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In some areas, perhaps. Overall? Not really. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, it was very likely myself that said that. I have said that UMich is overrated. I still firmly believe it is. </p>
<p>Unlike Wolverines though, I don’t need to bash another school to make myself feel better ;).</p>
<p>“Both UMich and MSU are getting brand new art museums”</p>
<p>Correction Michigan’s expansion was completed quite a while ago. State is still waiting for the groundbreaking of theirs.</p>
<p>^ Sorry, I meant that they both have brand new museums in their plans (one is completed, one is in the works). </p>
<p>I got my wisdom teeth taken out today so I’m on some heavy drugs. You’ll have to excuse me if I mix up my words or am not clear.</p>
<p>I’ve already gotten into this argument many times on here. UMich outranks MSU. I GET It. But, I got into both. Would pay virtually nothing at both, and yet I chose MSU over UMich. My reasons have been stated time and time again. I’m not going to keep parroting myself. </p>
<p>Good day, rj.</p>
<p>“Unlike Wolverines though, I don’t need to bash another school to make myself feel better”</p>
<p>…and yet you think it’s overrated and stated as much. I gave you reasons why I don’t think Michigan is overrated. Michigan is ranked 27th in the U.S. by USNWR for undergraduate education among national universities. MSU is something like 77th or so. Should Michigan drop down to MSU’s level so it won’t be so overrated as you think it is?</p>
<p>“I got my wisdom teeth taken out today so I’m on some heavy drugs. You’ll have to excuse me if I mix up my words or am not clear.”</p>
<p>Hope you feel better.</p>