Most overrated college in the country

College Search & Selection
141

<p>This thread is truly entertaining.</p>

<p>The best line came early from the keyboard of Warblersrule86 </p>

<p>"[Duke] has the largest collection of primates outside of Madagascar." Some of us may wonder where their dorms are located! </p>

<p>Later, Lewisloftus, delivered this most comical line as he declared Barnard worthy of a 10~25 spots rise in the LAC rankings. That would represent quite a boost for a school currently ranked 27th. Being second best LAC in the country or second best school in the vicinity of Columbia are not the same exact thing! </p>

<p>However, the prize for most hysterical line comes all the way from Thailand, thanks to the statistical wisdom of PavelB -who really, really should check a few facts before spewing utter non-sense such as: </p>

<p>"Reed was top 5 before the scandal with U.S. News."</p>

<p>Or maybe, he should read the text inside his own LINKS, as well as writing down "Second quartile of 100 is from 26 to 50" or "Second quartile of 200 is from 51 to 100" a few times. </p>

<p>
[quote]
When Reed's former president Steven Koblik decided to stop submitting data to U.S. News, he asked the magazine simply to omit Reed from its listings. Instead the editors arbitrarily assigned the lowest possible value to each of Reed's missing variables, with the result that Reed dropped in one year from the second quartile to the bottom quartile. From <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/shunning-college-rankings%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/shunning-college-rankings&lt;/a>

[/quote]
</p>

142

<p>Ivy_Grad, as my good friend Horace would say, "non est jocus esse malignum"! hehe </p>

<p>At any rate, I think we sometimes get carried away with small and meaningless details, blowing them out of proportion to prove a point that stands on shaky ground. We can all make a good case for one school as opposed to another. It is easy to exaggerate a universty's strengths (or weaknesses) in an attempt to make or break it. We have all gotten carried away (I am, myself, certainly guilty of this). Sometimes, I feel we are all like men from La Mancha! But beware, "Windmills, remember, if you fight with them, may swing round their huge arms and cast you down into the mire...or up among the stars"! Cervantes had a way with words didn't he?! </p>

<p>In the end, it is clear that we are dealing with a highly intangible and somewhat vague subject. We are best served to remember that when we attempt to praise...or unfairly belittle a university, we sometimes must step back and carefully evaluate what we say. Many young and impressionable high schoolers look to us for valuable advice. We would serve them best to keep away from those windmills.</p>

143

<p>
[quote]
who really, really should check a few facts before spewing utter non-sense such as

[/quote]
What's your problem with Reed, xiggi? I think you're the one who should read the articles I posted and check the facts my friend. </p>

<p>Or did you miss the bold font saying

[quote]

READ THIS
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/shunning-college-rankings%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200511/shunning-college-rankings&lt;/a>
<a href="http://web.reed.edu/reed_magazine/nov1997/news/3.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.reed.edu/reed_magazine/nov1997/news/3.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.collegenews.org/x3451.xml%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5DBut"&gt;http://www.collegenews.org/x3451.xml

[/quote]
But</a> since you seem to be lazy, I'll just quote some things for you.
[quote]

Since 1995, Reed College has declined to participate in the U.S. News college rankings. It has done so for two primary reasons. First, rankings create powerful incentives to distort institutional behavior, manipulate data and diminish valuable differences among institutions. The evidence, as noted in research presented by The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Monthly and others, indicates that the U.S. News ranking system has had precisely these impacts. Second, rankings reinforce a view of education as strictly instrumental to extrinsic goals, such as acquisition of prestige or wealth, that is antithetical to Reed’s philosophy — and, indeed, to the ideal that all liberal arts institutions hold dear — that higher education should produce intrinsic rewards, such as liberation, creative fulfillment and self-realization.</p>

<p>Reed does make public extensive information and data about the college, in order to help applicants make informed choices about the college. But it does not knowingly cooperate with, and thereby implicitly endorse, rankings.

[/quote]

[quote]
"[The editors at U.S. News] had never met with such a prominent school being so stubborn," wrote Rolling Stone about Reed's refusal to cooperate in 1995. "So U.S. News punished Reed College. They gave it the lowest possible score in nearly every category. The school plunged to the bottom quartile. No other college had dropped so far, so fast." Acknowledging that it was wrong to punish Reed for being the lone holdout in the prestigious national liberal arts and national universities categories, U.S. News editor Al Sanoff told Rolling Stone "Let's just say we did not handle it the right way."

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/25/college_rankings_or_junk_science/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/25/college_rankings_or_junk_science/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/04/AR2005100400388.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/04/AR2005100400388.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here's some more for your (non?) reading pleasure.</p>

<p>Edit:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Or maybe, he should read the text inside his own LINKS, as well as writing down "Second quartile of 100 is from 26 to 50" or "Second quartile of 200 is from 51 to 100" a few times

[/quote]
When that happend Reed was already dropped in rankings. It was higher before that. Why do you think Reed wanted to stop participating? Because Reed thought that schools should be judged by academic quality, rather than how large their endowments are.</p>

144

<p>"But since you seem to be lazy, I'll just quote some things for you."</p>

<p>Really?</p>

<p>PavelB, for your information, I have read and, contrary to you, I DO understand the information that is discussed. For starters, you do not seem to understand much about the USNews ranking system. But here is your chance:</p>

<p>Why do YOU think that Reed deserves a higher ranking? Use the distribution of scores to highlight your position. In other words, do you believe it is the peer assessment that is too low, the graduation rate, the faculty resources, the selectivity, the alumni giving rate? </p>

<p>Please do not counter with an argument that Reed's quality of education defies a ranking system, as that is a different discussion altogether. If you want to support a HIGHER ranking for USNews, you have to use their methodology and demonstrate that the school is indeed "screwed" over. This is not rocket science, but it does require a bit more than copying and pasting articles without making the effort to understand the concepts discussed. </p>

<p>Do your homework and then come back! </p>

<p>PS As far as my problem with Reed, it is very simple: Reed is milking its position with glee and ... hypocrisy. While they refuse to fill the USNews survey, they DO publish their CDS forms and participate with other magazines that are simply more generous to their iconocastic views. For the record, the best article on Reed was published by... USNews in their latest guide. On the other hand, the article by the new President of Reed was simply a one-sided self serving long on emotions and short on facts. </p>

<p>For the record, I wish nothing more than to see Reed eliminated from the rankings of USNews.</p>

145

<p>"When that happend Reed was already dropped in rankings."</p>

<p>And when was this, Mr Pavel? In 1984 or when the methodology was changed? </p>

<p>Where are your sources?</p>

146

<p>Hi xiggi,</p>

<p>First of all, you are mistaken that I am a "he." I am a "she" (otherwise, why would I care about Barnard, a women's college?).</p>

<p>As for the 10~25 spots, actually that was my mistake. I was thinking more along the lines of 10~15 spots, but I was also mistaken about Barnard's USNWR rankings (which I thought were below 30). Factoring in its current ranking of 27th, I think it deserves to be placed around the top 15 (give or take a few).</p>

<p>What is Reed's current ranking? I definitely think it should be top 20~25. Even if it's not, I still think it's a great institution if you're planning on getting a PhD in the future.</p>

147

<p>

Drat you, xiggi. You know what I meant. :p However, for your further amusement, I will add that Emory also has a sizeable primate collection. :D</p>

148

<p>
[quote]
If you want to support a HIGHER ranking for USNews, you have to use their methodology and demonstrate that the school is indeed "screwed" over

[/quote]
That's where you're wrong. I don't have to use their rankings. Why would I? Just because most people, especially international students, blindly follow U.S. News as if it's the word of 'God Almighty' himself, doesn't mean I should give a diddly squat about how they rank universities. </p>

<p>You've probably read hunderds of discussions like this and please don't tell me that you haven't learned to take U.S. news rankings with a grain of salt. There are other ranking systems out there (such as princeton review) and, indeed you're right, they give Reed a higher rating. Do you know why? Because Reed deserves it. They give credit where credit is due. It's an amazing school with an academic rigor that is as good as or, I'd personally say exceeds, that of Amherst or Williams. I'd like you to prove me otherwise.</p>

<p>And yes, I may have exaggerated when I said Reed was "top 5" exactly, but even if you assume the validity of the statistics, the gap between #1 and #20 is only four or five points on the U.S. News scale.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What is Reed's current ranking? I definitely think it should be top 20~25. Even if it's not, I still think it's a great institution if you're planning on getting a PhD in the future.

[/quote]
47.</p>

149

<p>Lewisloftus, my apologies for the gender faux-pas. </p>

<p>Warblers86, thanks for understanding that the post was meant to be jocular.</p>

150

<p>I was out shoveling manure out of the donkey shed. Did I miss anything? I've misplaced my reading glasses, but as best as I can tell, y'all are discussing the upcoming Reed vs. Cornell hockey game. Is that right?</p>

<p>Anyway, Ivy Grad, let's for a moment forget all the things you claim I said (and I'd appreciate it if you'd provide the post # when you quote me, because I've spent hours trying to track down all the things I allegedly wrote, and can't find any of them...including the one which somebody claimed mentioned people falling for the Ivy "hype"). </p>

<p>And in the spirit of full disclosure, I will admit that the one time I applied to an Ivy, I was rejected. In fact, the Guiness Book of World Records lists the time in between when Brown opened up my grad school application and when they tossed it on the You-Gotta-Be-F@$%ing-Kidding pile as the smallest segment of time ever measured. But I went to Toronto and had a much better time than I probably would have had in Providence... </p>

<p>Anyway...Ivy Grad, in your post #103 you made the claim that the Ivy schools get "THE best and brightest (students and faculty)...." I think this comment, especially the capitalized "THE," is where some of us got the idea that you weren't very keen on the concept that there are some pretty smart folks on non-Ancient 8 campuses. I see that you have clarified that point in subsequent posts, and commend you for it.</p>

<p>A friend of mine (and Long's) who got a PhD from one of HYP also read this thread, and he wanted me to forward his comments. He taught undergrads for years at that college, and said to tell you that that university was a wonderful place for students to study, but it really was overrated. For years he had also told me that the students there were very sharp, but were not exactly deep, and had much less intelluctual curiosity than one would have expected.</p>

151

<p>If Princeton's good enough for Einstein it's good enough for me.</p>

152

<p>Forget about which colleges or athletic leagues are most overrated, I just want to know which client is getting billed for the time Long has spent reading/replying to these messages... ;)</p>

153

<p>Good point, EatMan. Problem is that while he might have taught there for a while, he didn't go there as a student. Imagine, all that he did, he managed to do without an Ancient Eight sheepskin.</p>

154

<p>Where is Dook, anyway?</p>

155

<p>UMich, UCB, WUSTL, UNC-CH</p>

156

<p>USC!!!</p>

<p>Holy crap, usnews ranks this school above UCSD!? Give me a break.</p>

157

<p>College 2332 got this EXACTLY right.</p>

<p>"Penn, Notre Dame, WashU, Emory, Penn State, and Michigan"</p>

<p>I disagree with Penn, but the other 5 are the most overrated colleges in the country.</p>

158

<p>Oh, and Syracuse.</p>

159

<p>I pick Cornell.
Hands down.</p>

160

<p>Here we go again. Somebody call Ivy Grad.</p>