Motherly concerns

<p>I am the mother of a senior, and acting motherly. We live in the suburbs, and things are relatively quiet here. Before we send our girl to the big league, I would like to hear from you. Let's talk about the social life for girls at HYP. Are sororities the center of social life? What percentage of girls are unaffiliated? Is there a difference, other than location, in the culture of the schools. Do kids tend to date or go out in groups.When I was in school (decades ago) some kids drank etc., others didn't. I assume that's the same. Sat night was date night, we had curfews, and no men were allowed in the dorms. Sounds ancient, huh? I realize everyone is different, but I am curious about the dating patterns today. Our daughter, like the rest of you, will probably be admitted to one of the great schools, has achieved all the right numbers, ec's etc, and has spent a great deal of her time working to get to the next step. What is in store for her? Other than the academic growth she will experience in college, I want her to have fun and be in a heathy environment. Any comments? Be nice, I am an old woman.</p>

<p>I strongly suggest that you take a look at Harvard's web pages to get answers to your questions about the social life. There are no Greeks at Harvard.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, this statement concerns me: "Our daughter, like the rest of you, will probably be admitted to one of the great schools, has achieved all the right numbers, ec's etc, and has spent a great deal of her time working to get to the next step. "</p>

<p>If you are assuming by "one of the great schools" that your daughter is guaranteed an admission to a place like HPYS, please do not get your or your daughter's hopes up like that. Virtually all of the applicants to such colleges are outstanding. For instance, Harvard says that 85% of its applicants could succeed at Harvard -- if Harvard had room for them.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, due to space reasons, about 10 out of 11 Harvard applicants will be rejected this year. Odds are extremely long, too, for places like Yale, Stanford, MIT and Princeton.</p>

<p>My advice, therefore, would be to fall in love with whatever college your daughter has already been accepted or that is her safety school. Encourage your daughter to do the same. If she ends up getting into a place like HPY, she always can fall in love with that college once she has the acceptance in hand.</p>

<p>It is, though, in general a big mistake to act like you know your daughter will get an acceptance from a place like HPY because for most applicants, what they get are rejections -- even if they are the very best student in their high school or town. </p>

<p>Please take a close look at some of the threads reporting what happened in December when students got their early decision and early action decisions. Check the stats of the students who were rejected and deferred from top colleges. There are some scary things that you'll find.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that colleges like HPYS get so many applicants that adcoms have the luxury of choosing the students who will best create well rounded classes. Thus, if what they need is a stellar student from Montana or a tuba player or a future classics major, they'll pass on students with higher scores and grades in order to get a student with the attributes needed to fill out the class.</p>

<p>There also is no such things as "all the right numbers, ec's, etc." Harvard, for instance, rejects half of the 1600 scorers who apply. Given the fact that a record number of 22,000 students applied this year, I anticipate that the rejection rate for 1600s scorers will be even higher than is usual.</p>

<p>Dotty, if she's that smart, I'm betting she has slipped out her window while you were in dreamland, more than once. A couple thoughts:
Recent articles in national magazines pretty accurately depict a generation that avoids the aggravations of relationships and satisfies needs via random hook-ups.
Recent articles in major magazines also pretty accurately depict the very widespread use of weed---easier to get than alcohol in most places since your times when they raised the drinking age.
There are still no virgins in colleges.
I do not think anyone has "dated" since 1965.</p>

<p>Northstarmom if you are a parent and you dont' believe that your child will get in wherever they apply, you are a bad person.</p>

<p>My question was really about the social life; not about the stats and likelihood of my daughter being admitted. She is actually quite mature about the whole process and will deal with whatever comes---that is her nature.In fact,she is too cautious, and applied to too many safe schools. However, the probability of her being accepted to a top school is pretty good. At least, that is what we were told. I was more curious about the social life from a girl's perspective, and how things are now. That's all.</p>

<p>Crunch22 Random hookups don't work for me. I think any parent would agree. Regardless of the stress at school, that's a ridiculous way to behave.</p>

<p>I am not sure, then, if you will find answers to your questions on this board as I don't think I have seen any female Harvard students or female recent grads posting here.</p>

<p>A good place to get info about Harvard's social scene, however, would be to read the Harvard Crimson, which you can read on-line.</p>

<p>My guess is that I'm around your age. When I went to Harvard, virgins were rare, and many students were virtually living with their boyfriends in the dorms. It's a liberal place and the administration doesn't care about students' sex lives.</p>

<p>I have heard from Princeton students that drinking is a very important part of their social life because Princeton doesn't have many things open at night. Harvard has Cambridge and Boston, so while students drink, I doubt it is as much as occurs in less isolated places.</p>

<p>For my daughter, the social life in college is superior in every way to her social life in high school. She has more friends, more independence, more opportunity and more freedom. How any one girl handles her unlimited choices is really up to her.
What does suprise me in a positive way is how much structured activity is offered. She went skiing last weekend with her residential dorm - a planned trip that was open to all in the dorm and fairly inexpensive, travel included. Next weekend she'll be in Vermont at a conference with a few other students related to an extracurricular activity she's doing. She also threw a party last week in her room for a bunch of kids in her major, and provided food and drink.
It sometimes seems like her whole life is a social event. After all, she's living with other students day in and day out, so stuctured or not, it's a very social existence.</p>

<p>Here's an article about dating habits from the Valentine's Day edition of the Crimson's magazine:
"Magazine
Published on Thursday, February 10, 2005
Have Sex in the Stacks: Put Your Widener in My Pusey
By ADAM P. SCHNEIDER
Crimson Staff Writer
CRIMSON/ ALEXA J. BUSH
Study break: relieve the stress. You don't even have to undress.</p>

<p>Article Options
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What to wear</p>

<p>Women: Miniskirt. Lose the stilettos.</p>

<p>Men: Sweatpants (no DHAs; athletes in the library send up a red flag), boxers, and an old t-shirt. Nudity unacceptable.</p>

<p>How to do it</p>

<p>Step 1: </p>

<p>Silence your cell phone. The Nokia tune is only an appropriate interlude on vibrate.</p>

<p>Step 2: </p>

<p>Check for nearby persons in study carrels. People think we don’t have sex. Let’s keep it that way...." <a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=505583%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=505583&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>lol! Northstarmom - are you trying to give the poster a heart attack?
Although I'm sure sex in the stacks occurs at every college, I do think this article was tonge in cheek. ;)</p>

<p>Dotty-I remember reading something from Tennessee that said the residential halls still had rules like "no men were allowed in the dorms." But all of the schools that I've visited have been far more socially liberal (I remember Amherst having co-ed bathrooms, for instance). I think you'd be hard pressed to find a top quality school that will enforce restrictions on your daughter's social life. At the same time, all top 25 schools will have abstinent kids (for various reasons, religious, academic, social), so if that's the path your daughter wants to take, she'll have company. While Harvard is clearly no Bob Jones University, it doesn't seem to me quite as <em>out there</em> as some LACs like Wesleyan and Oberlin.</p>

<p>IMHO, worry about the academics, and let your daughter decide which school has the social life that best fits her.</p>

<p>just<em>forget</em>me, i remember those co-ed bathrooms at amherst. that ranks among one of the grimiest experiences of my life. ugh, there's still a bad aftertaste.</p>

<p>dotty, if your daughter wants to, she can get a single-sex dorm anywhere. but let her decide.</p>

<p>Sounds good to me. That's what I wanted to hear. I guess there is no great difference among any of the schools. Referring to superior social life.</p>

<p>Dotty,
Bear in mind that just because random hookups don't work for you, her life is not yours to live. You infused her with your views for 18 years. Now you need to let her live her own life, if she isn't already. I just know that the kids parents who react like you did to the realities of life generally have the wildest kids, who make bad judgments because no one is walking BESIDE them through these issues. I know a girl who is the only child of a couple of controlling, in-denial parents who are sure she has never been exposed to any of this---so she has no guidance in her reality. Instead of acknowledging her lack of virginity and getting her birth control, she got pregnant and had an abortion. Instead of realizing she drinks and telling her to call them for a ride if she's drunk at a party, she drives home drunk. Get the idea? And I know kids whose parents drive all the drunks home whose kids go to parties and truly choose not to drink. The behavior you want to keep her from is only enticing if it is forbidden by you. Understanding her reality and talking to her about it as if she has a mind a right to live as she chooses---with respect---is the only chance you'll have to ever have any influence, now, yesterday and in the future.</p>

<p>I don't understand all this hype with sex. That's not what I meant this to be about. I'm sorry if gave you that impression. My children are well adjusted, particulaly my youngest. They have had every benefit living in one of the nicest towns on Long Island, in a great school system, have had parents who are devoted to them, and trust them enough to let go. I merely wanted an idea of what's new on campus. It 's been a while since we've been on campus...any campus, not just Harvard. I think my questions were answered. My kids have not been repressed and in fact have open relationships with us. We gave them all standards and hoped, which is all anyone can do. In fact, when my kids friends have problems they often come here for good advice. I don't know if you are a student or an adult, and what anyone does is his/her own business. I don't think many sixteen year old girls are thinking about hook-ups. Some of them are ,ofcourse, but I don't think that is the focus of most of the kids. I would hope that my children would have better judgment. My experience has been friends that came from super strict households did sometimes go wild; our home is not like that. However,a parent should provide guidance for their children. In truth, we have no real control over what they do; we can only hope they are comfortable with their decisions. Relationships are complicated, and before a child delves into grown up things, I would hope they would be mature enough emotionally to handle it; I don't think most college freshmen are. I don't mean to preach. Do whatever you want. Happiness is relative, and we all create our own life.Just remember, you have to live with your decisions. I hope that kids are as smart in their social lives as they are in the academic lives. End of discussion.</p>

<p>I like you Dotty. I like you for sticking up for yourself and instilling in your children a sense of self respect. I find the behavior cruncha is talking about right now ugly and I (for my very own personal reasons) hate any parent who would willingly and often drive home drunks from parties, without telling the parents of the drunks, especially the ones who would want to know.</p>

<p>The article about sex in the stacks probably was no tongue in cheek. A classmate of mine produced a video of my class in which middle aged alums discussed their experiences at Harvard. To my surprise, several people mentioned having sex in the stacks at Wiedner.</p>

<p>I had never heard of anyone doing that. My friends, though, tell me that I have always stood out for being naive.</p>

<p>That being said, there are, unfortunately, random hook-ups being done by high school and college students all over the country. That does not, however mean, that all young people do such things.</p>

<p>A friend of mine who teaches writing at a Catholic college says she has been surprised about how many students write about getting drunk and then getting laid by relative strangers. She says that apparently the students' consciences won't allow them to have sex while sober. When I taught at a public institution, there was a subset of students who were into "booty calls" and similar things. Yes, this happens all over, but not everyone is into such things. On any campus, there are people who save sex for marriage, etc. That even was true back in the old days during the sexual revolution.</p>

<p>Northstarmom-
The article wasn't tongue in cheek. This past semester, Harvard actually installed motion sensitive lights in the stacks to discourage the sex that occurs there fairly regularly.</p>

<p>Pretty funny if its true.</p>

<p>There are no officially recognized fraternities or sororities at Harvard. There are a few sororities unaffiliated with the university, but they don't have houses and there are very few members.</p>