Music Theory PhD Statistics?

<p>Howdy,</p>

<p>I am a current BM degree candidate double major (performance and music theory). I might apply to graduate schools in music theory, but I have heard some nasty things about the job placement rates of PhD holders (in all fields but especially in this one). I have also heard that job placement rates are much higher for degree holders of certain institutions. I have tried searching the internet, but have found no useful information so far. Does anyone know where I might obtain statistics or other useful information on the topic? I also welcome whatever personal advice, anecdotes or general impressions that might inform this decision.</p>

<p>Any help would be greatly appreciated!</p>

<p>Are you wanting to teach at the university level? If so, you will need a PhD in order to get a tenure-track position. However, having that double degree is helpful, as at many smaller universities, the applied teachers also teach the theory classes. You would have to get a job at a larger university in order to JUST teach music theory.</p>

<p>And I’m assuming you know that you must first get your Masters in Music before you can get a PhD. As for job placement rates for certain institutions, I’m not sure about that one…</p>

<p>Um, I’m not convinced that the above statement that you need a master’s degree to obtain a PhD in theory is true. I think this, because we’re talking about a PhD and not a DMA, works differently than other music majors. If nothing else, I found a member of the theory department who appears to have just a BA and a PhD. Oh yeah, he’s also the chair of Eastman’s theory department, not just any professor…</p>

<p>[Jonathan</a> Dunsby – Eastman School of Music](<a href=“http://www.esm.rochester.edu/faculty/dunsby_jonathan/]Jonathan”>http://www.esm.rochester.edu/faculty/dunsby_jonathan/)</p>

<p>I believe that PianoMan12 is correct, but it probably depends on the school. I had a professor in college who had a PhD but no Masters.</p>

<p>However I suspect that there might be some advantage to having a Masters in addition to a PhD, especially if one has a different specialty in the Masters than the PhD (like if the Masters was in Music Theory and the PhD was in Music Comp - or any other combination).</p>

<p>Many academic programs admit directly to the Ph.D. and the M.A. (if conferred at all) is granted en route, meaning, it is not considered a terminal degree but merely an indication of progress towards the doctorate.</p>

<p>For a purely academic teaching career in theory, it is not at all necessary to obtain the M.M. It is important to look closely at the faculty you would be studying with. Many of the leading academic theory departments differ from one another philosophically and you might want to think about choosing a particular angle or professor to study with.</p>

<p>To answer the OP’s original question: obtaining a tenure track professorship has as much to do with publications–originality and quality of research–as with the provenance of the doctorate. Most important for your career propsects in academics would be securing the good will of a powerful mentor and dissertation advisor.</p>

<p>Anyone know of a good choice for a music theory PhD program in which an emphasis can be on jazz theory?</p>

<p>Also, are language requirements typical? And, if so, is German the most commonly required language?</p>

<p>TrumpetDad,</p>

<p>I don’t know of any program that offers a “PhD in Jazz Theory” per se. (But of course, I don’t know of any program that offers a “PhD in Classical Theory” per se either.)</p>

<p>The reason being that at the PhD level, “theory” as an academic discipline is a different term than when describing “applied” theory or musicianship skills classes for undergrads. The latter is the most common context that people mean when they colloquially use the term “music theory” but of course, if one is training to be a professional theorist, they are dealing more so with scholarship and theoretical readings of music than they are with applied musicianship. Training as a PhD student in theory wouldn’t entail as much learning about keys/chords/harmony/scales/etc. as it would about how to conduct original readings and interpretations of musical composition.</p>

<p>Therefore, any PhD program in Music Theory would be good for a grad student interested in focusing on jazz music, pending there is faculty in the department with the similar sort of research interests.</p>

<p>If one is simply wanting to learn about jazz theory per se (in the musicianship/skills sense, not as an academic discipline), then a PhD program is probably not the right program anyways. (I could be wrong though, and there might be some PhD programs focusing exactly on jazz theory, but I haven’t researched this and don’t know of any.)</p>

<p>As for the second question, I’d say language requirements are fairly common in PhD music programs, just as in any of the humanities. Virtually all departments reccommend good reading knowledge of one, but each individual one has its own formal or informal requirements. For example, some simply want some sort of informal demonstration of knowledge, but others have full examinations in languages as part of the comprehensive exams. I’d venture to guess that German is probably the most common statistically speaking, but generally, the language is supposed to be one relevant to the student’s research focus.</p>

<p>Thank you, Earl. Good info.</p>

<p>I’ve come up with a list of schools offering a PhD in Music Theory that also offer graduate-level jazz/improvisational degrees, thinking this might be a good list to start with. I think he’s fine with what you’re describing, and doesn’t confine himself to the jazz world, but would like to have a jazz culture and resources nearby.</p>

<p>Eastman
Florida St.
Juilliard
Miami
Michigan
Michigan St.
NEC
Northwestern
Oregon
UNT
USC</p>

<p>this site may be helpful: it is the current job listings in music theory.<br>
[music</a> theory composition in Academic Careers - [wikihost.org]](<a href=“http://www.wikihost.org/w/academe/music_theory_composition]music”>Loading...)
also look at the information on the website for Music Theory Online.
Slip pickins.
The best bet for having the hope of a job is to go to a tippy top grad program. Of the ones listed in the previous post, Eastman and Michigan are probably the strongest. Look at Yale, Harvard, Princeton. Most theory programs are east of the Mississipi. Chicago has a combined program with musicology and ethno, and some strong theorists. Some programs have no theory - e.g., UC Berkeley.<br>
As to language requirements, look at the descriptions of the particular programs. Harvard, for example, requires German and another language - there is a language exam, and it is difficult.</p>

<p>I agree with mamenyu that most of the “top” theory grad programs tend to lie on the Eastern seaboard (whereas West Coast has destinations for ethno/musicology etc), if obtaining a professorship is one’s goal (which, for most all theory doctoral students, it is). Yale is indeed one of the big guns in terms of track record. Add CUNY Graduate Center and Columbia to that circle too, although I’m not sure if either have CORE faculty that focus on jazz music.</p>

<p>An option to consider if son’s is really committed to scholarship on jazz - maybe going down the ethnomusicology route might be more fruitful than the theory route? If nothing else, it will certainly open up infinitely more departments to do a PhD.</p>

<p>Taking a quick look at the Oberlin theory Faculty, Eastman and CUNY Grad Center are well represented with member of the faculty also receiving Ph.D’s from Illinois, Michigan Washington University St Louis, Oregon and Brandeis. Brandeis’s Ph.D program is in theory and composition.</p>

<p>You want to look at the provenance of recent profs. - older tenured faculty could be from a wider variety of schools, and some might have DMA’s - nowadays, that probably won’t cut it for landing a job in theory (though Composition/Theory might be a different matter).<br>
CUNY and Columbia are worth a look.
Also take a look at UCSD.</p>

<p>Taking up your suggestion mamenyu, the most recent at Oberlin are several Ph.D’s from CUNY with Michigan next. The most recent in the composition department are Columbia and UCSD.</p>

<p>Just FYI, at Michigan the Masters in Music is available for Improv (as Trumpetdad suggests) and available for Composition, but the PHD program with the non-terminal MA is available ALSO for Composition OR Composition + Theory, or just Theory (Phd or Certificate). The difference is that the latter are co-administered through Rackham.</p>

<p>Goldenmommy:
Forgive me if I mis-remember, but I believe there was a post a few years ago that suggested musicology specifically only had about three positions open nationwide that were actually tenure-tracked and that there was some kind of “glut” on the market in terms of candidates, if you will.</p>

<p>I did not recall MUSIC THEORY being referred to as having similar conditions, but that’s entirely possible.</p>

<p>I guess in terms of advice and impressions, my two cents would be to attempt to gain entrance to the most prestigious programs possible and to be prepared to set the world on fire with your work to improve your odds.</p>

<p>But that would be my advice to just about anyone looking to teach at the university level on the tenure track, subject notwithstanding ;)</p>

<p>Just for fun - here’s where TENURED (full profs) hail from in the UMich theory department:</p>

<p>2 PHDs from Yale; 1 from Princeton & Yale; 2 PHDs from Michigan.</p>

<p>Of the associate profs and assistant profs, it’s a mixed bag…eg. julliard masters in performance with CUNY in theory; quite a few from Mich; one from Harvard; some without credential mention who have other accomplishments emphasized.</p>

<p>Just a quick note about tenured profs…assistant and associate profs can be considered tenured profs as well. Usually, one applies for tenure and promotion at the same time. I believe most people are assistant professors first, and then receive tenure when they are promoted to associate. However, it can happen when going from intructor or assistant (one is usually only given “instructor” status if they have not completed their doctorate…when they complete it, they then move to assistant).</p>

<p>However, there are exceptions - I have a friend who received tenure but was NOT promoted - really weird, if you ask me. They are good enough to be tenured but not good enough to be promoted? What’s up with that? That is really unusual, by the way.</p>

<p>Anyway, my main point is that in most situations, someone applying for full professorship was granted tenure quite awhile ago. Just didn’t want people to think that only full professors have tenure. Most associate professors will have tenure too. Full professorship is simply a promotion (i.e., more money).</p>

<p>I think any program that is a PhD in Theory AND Composition (schools like Brandeis and NYU GSAS come to mind), tend to focus more on composition, and resultantly are NOT typically competitive for tenure-track jobs in Theory. I would absolutely not hesitate a moment to DIScourage someone from getting a PhD in Theory/Composition if theory is in fact what they want to do.</p>

<p>I forgot about Eastman so am happy others have brought it up. You don’t tend to typically think of a conservatory when considering PhD programs, but yes, Eastman’s theory program has been productive.</p>

<p>Also, it might be fruitful to examine the recent hires at more mainstream research universities too, rather than a school that is pretty much undergraduate-only like Oberlin. At liberal arts colleges, search committees are likely more inclined to look at an applicant’s teaching or pedagogical makeup, whereas at a mainstream research university for more mainstream tenure-track jobs, the applicants’ publication/conference record and scholarship activity trumps anything else by far.</p>

<p>Oberlin has a recent theory prof. with tenure from CUNY but she was an Oberlin grad and I think her husband also teaches at Oberlin. Oberlin also has an arrangement with CUNY to hire new grads to teach at Oberlin in the theory department - aural skills and the 4 part theory sequence; most do not get hired onto the tenure track.
Although Oberlin is an undergraduate institution and the conservatory is mostly for performers, it has an unusually large theory department and its tenured professors have published - you can’t get tenure at Oberlin without being pretty much a superstar these days.<br>
At most schools, an assistant professor does not have tenure; at most schools, associate professors do have tenure, but there are exceptions. I believe at Columbia you can be an “associate professor” but not get tenure.
There are more than 3 jobs in musicology in any one year. There are more jobs overall in musicology/ethno than in theory for tenure track positions - there are simply more schools with musicology departments, by a longshot. But the job market, in a word, sucks. In recent years, there has been an increased use of adjuncts.
At some schools, theory is taught by composers (hence composition/theory); for example, at UC Berkeley, the undergraduate aural skills and musicianship courses are taught by lecturers and composers; courses like Counterpoint are taught by composers.<br>
If you/your kid want to go to grad school, it is imperative to do a lot of research about the programs, read the admissions requirements and the descriptions of the degree requirements, and if possible, try to talk to professors at the schools you are interested in.</p>

<p>Great detail Mamenyu! Thanks. My son’s plans are a Ph.D in composition after Oberlin, thus my interest in grad schools albeit for composition. I find it interesting that at Oberlin Conservatory, one can only major in theory as part of a double major.</p>