I’d bet if you run the plans past MIL and FIL’s primary care docs, they’d come back with a big NO. Sitting in a car for 14 hours is a recipe for DVTs. And this trip has them doing it twice.
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I’m not as elderly, but I just sat in the car for an hour…and boy was I stiff when I got out. Needed to walk around for a few minutes to get the kinks out. I can’t imagine sitting for a LONG car ride.
Re: the daughter…I’m guessing she doesn’t want to miss a chance to see her family for the holiday, because she simply doesn’t know what the future will bring. I would say…if that is the case…figure out a way to go. Fly if you need to. Rent a house/Airbnb with single floor access for the seniors. Get as much food catered and ordered before you leave. Many places still have family dinners…use them.
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Has your daughter run this plan past her doctors? I would insist that she does. I would also want your in-laws to do the same. Just seems like a lot of red flags. Perhaps someone’s doctor will have the good sense to say this is a bad idea.
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If you do drive, consider doing it in two days, especially if you are bringing the grandparents.
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I absolutely agree with this, BUT (and I hate to say bad things about either @deb922 ’s in-laws or daughter) people lie.
“What did your doc say about these holiday plans?” “Oh s/he is fine with it!”
I mean, how can she really know if they even asked or what the doc actually said?
Denial is a powerful thing.
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@deb922 , this sounds extremely hard and rather crazy, but I think you are doing the right thing in going. This is not about reasonable or practical - this is about people’s sentiments about themselves and their capabilities.
My suggestion is that you tackle each of these obstacles in a way that highlights the problem and requires others to collaborate on the solutions. For example, let your in-laws know that the drive will be 14 hours without stops and that you will need to sit in the front seat. Ask if they will be comfortable in the back of your car or if a rental seems necessary. How often will they need to stop for the bathroom and to move around, and does that suggest you should spread the drive out over two days (eating into your visit and requiring a hotel.
It’s entirely possible that they haven’t thought through the details and/or know that this may be the last chance for them to celebrate the holidays this way. My experience with aging persons (including myself) is that the realization that they will lose some of their abilities may drive a “carpe diem” mentality.
As for your D, I would ask how you can plan for the possibility that she may not be up for as much entertaining as she is taking on. You will have an airbnb - might you need it for some part of the festivities, especially with a grandparent in tow with mobility issues? Might it make sense to plan to bring in food rather than cook? Or eat out? She may very well be keeping herself going with a “if I act normal, I am normal and not sick” strategy or may be holding this out as the light at the end of the tunnel.
Everyone might feel better with plans that address the myriad of very real issues you have raised. And while no is the easy (and sensible) answer, it sounds like the emotional reasons for doing this say try to make it work.
Your challenge will be to do this positively and supportively and to avoid the temptation to say I told you so as some of what you foresee inevitably comes to pass. And to not bring any negativity to it. Wishing you strength! You sound like you have it…
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Re the doctor communications:
I am no expert, but unlike other fields (an OB telling a patient “you are not taking a 12 hour flight each way a month before your due date”; an orthopedic surgeon telling a patient “you will not be walking through O’Hare from one terminal to another two weeks after your knee replacement”) oncologists avoid “long term” discussion.
So the answer to “will I be able to do this at Xmas or New Year’s” is likely “let’s see how you feel after your last treatment”. The answer to "can I safely gather with my grandparents is likely to be “Why don’t we reassess after they get their flu shots?”
Etc. That doesn’t mean the doctor is thinking “resume your normal life a week after treatment”. It means that constantly reminding a cancer patient that their boundaries, capabilities and stamina have changed is not helpful.
Hugs.
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Driving elderly people that far is a non-negotiable NO WAY. If that must be done, they should fly. They could get blood clots with that much time sitting, they’ll have to stop all the time and they will be uncomfortable. That will take two days of miserable driving, each way. No. Not even an option. People should go to where the elderly are.
If she feels that she really must see everyone all at once, she and her fiancé can get on a flight Friday after work and leave Sunday. Or maybe he can take a day off, but just doesn’t want to use the vacation time.
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Sounds like most every combination and permutation of options has been thrown out here already, but I’ll add my 2 cents: If your dau is an immovable object I agree that renting an airbnb/vrbo or what have you rental home is a must. We’ve visited our s’s across country and its made it much easier both for having more space and also sharing the cooking, having quiet time when needed, etc. As for how to get there, you mentioned that its a very long drive, but also a long drive to the airport. I am in the “take your DH up on it and fly” camp, another option is to take 2 cars so you wont have to sit in the back. Whil the negative is that you and DH each have to drive, the positive is that you each have just one passenger and everyone can sit in the front. The big caveat is that someone is likely to get sick/not feel well/cancel. I was put in charge of trying to coordinate a big Thanksgiving get together in a city that is home to no one (its close to one relative who has health issues). I found the perfect house that had 11 BR/12 BA and booked it. Then one group started waffling and changing plans and finally when I pushed it (b/c the reservation would be non refundable) they made other plans, so I cancelled and found a 6 BR house for the group that is still planning to come. Wont be surprised if something happens and one part of the family cant come (sick kid or something) but its like herding cats. Its a thankless job. I feel your pain, @deb922. Do whats manageable for you. You wont have fun if you are sick and stressed out.
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Yes. Here you are, screaming internally (and maybe externally) LISTEN TO ME!!! And they aren’t listening. But we are.
I think part of the issue may be that there are so many reasons why this will be a bad idea, perhaps they think you are just making excuses and they are not acknowledging what a bad plan this will be?
Perhaps the answer is that we can try to make a workable plan to get the family together in December. But part of that plan doesn’t include putting elderly people in a car for that long. If your daughter and your husband can’t see that is a huge problem, they are not thinking it through logically.
If she wants to see them, then she needs to get on a flight and travel. Doesn’t really matter that she doesn’t want to travel, you don’t get to guilt the elders into doing something miserable. If flying is an option for the elders, then maybe.
My elderly MIL took a trip to visit her daughter, with plenty of driving/flying. Ended up with a blood clot, sore and miserable, trip ruined.
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Seems like the in laws are adding a great deal of the anxiety around the gathering. Could you get your D to come for a solo visit just to see them during a good part of her treatment cycle? Then their attendance for the actual weekend won’t be so crucial because she will have already gotten to see them again. If anyone was feeling poorly at the holiday, they could just skip it.
As a die hard control freak myself, it always amazes me when other people’s plans that I think won’t work-- turn out to work just fine!
That may happen in this case. The impromptu pizza party may end up being fun and memorable, unless the OP has been stressed and anxious about dinner plans and has insisted things be done her way. That’s why I’m urging her to let things go as much as possible.
As for the driving, we are all informed by our experiences. I drove my 83 and 89 year old parents from Missouri to NY over 2 days and it was fine. But it was two days, and we did stop every 2 hours.
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Wow, when our loved one had cancer and chemo, we were all very very careful about how much exposure she had to people (and this was pre-Covid). My folks were in late 80s when we traveled last with them and long drives were VERY challenging.
The idea of gathering a dozen people in December a week before your D flies off to a tropical vacation seems like a great way to get said vacation canceled due to some cold/bug/ Covid or another.
Sorry, I just don’t see this as a happy, safe, healthy gathering.
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I agree with the above that your daughter should come see her grandparents and excuse them from this arduous journey. You and your husband have driven to see her before, and you can do it again for her Christmas celebration. However, taking her elderly grandparents along on a 28 hour car ride seems like a recipe for disaster. If you remove the grandparents from the situation I think your anxiety will go way down.
On a very practical side, how mobile are they in their own home? Do they have handicap adaptations in their bathroom that they won’t have while traveling? Things like grab bars by toilets, seats in the shower, etc. Do they help each other in ways that they would not be able to do at a rest stop? If you were to fly, neither your husband nor father-in-law would be allowed in the women’s bathroom to assist his mother. I agree with the idea of an Airbnb but would it have grab bars? How comfortable are your in-laws with the type of stairs they will encounter in a townhouse? My mil is mentally agile, sill drives and cooks for herself. However she gets exhausted easily, moves slowly and has trouble on stairs. She would never admit it to anyone readily but she’s had lots of handicap/elder assistance things added to her home and bathroom to keep her safe. Her friends and family who don’t live close by would never know. I don’t think she’s used a bathroom in a public place in a very long time. We added assistance devices to one bathroom in our home so she can visit here. You don’t need to share the details of your in-laws health and agility with us, but I would really think this trip through in detail as far as keeping them safe (especially in regards to toilets, showers, and stairs) and whether that even seems feasible. What’s the longest drive your husband has done with them recently? Maybe do a “test drive” of a 2 hour trip to a restaurant or something along those lines to see how it goes.
My wish for you and your daughter is that everyone manages to make it through this Christmas season on friendly terms, that her health remains strong, and that you all have many more Christmases together to share.
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When I drove up to Bakersfield (5 hours from San Diego), I stopped every hour to have my 88 year-old mother go to the restroom, so it took longer than 5 hours. I didn’t need to stop for gas as I was in a hybrid.
At one rest stop, (Tejon Pass) we encountered an elderly couple entering the woman’s restroom whereby the woman (in a wheelchair) needed help to use the restroom. The husband explained to everyone that he was just there to help his wife go to the restroom.
There were several women in the room as it was a very busy weekend. I had just finished washing my hands and asked: “Can I help?” The husband said that she was very private and would prefer that he help her. So I loudly said: “We need access to the handicapped restroom for a wheelchair.”
As women were coming out, some had “reactions/comments” about a man coming into the restroom. I’m very direct and said something to the effect, “Would you like to help her?” Most wouldn’t look at me.
I waited for my Mom and then waited for the couple. I bring my own Soft Soap and paper towel rolls on trips, as the stuff in the public areas, is rough on the skin. So, I offered her my soap and towels. They were both very appreciative and indicated that most people wouldn’t have waited.
Then I offered for my mother and I to sit with his wife outside, while he went to the restroom. We chatted for a bit, and they thanked us profusely. We helped him with the wheelchair. I couldn’t imagine him doing this every single time all the way up and down the state!
He was returning from visiting family in Orange County going back north to Marin County (north of SF). Probably in their eighties. 14 HOURS is a nightmare-28 would be very stressful! I had a 5 hour trip that took me close to 7 hours! But I guess your husband is willing to drive that and ignore bodily functions in an elderly couple.
HINT: You had better tell your husband to PUT THAT PLASTIC down on the seats before the trip! Bring extra beach towels and CLOROX wipes to soak up any “accidents”.
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Ugh… sorry for the very tough
“Almost all of these problems can be solved with money. That’s great, if you have money!”. Well, actually sometimes you can’t find a good plan even without financial considerations.
That happened to us recently when we decided there was no good way to get 95 year old dad (and his younger wife) to niece’s wedding. In theory, hubby and I could have flown 2000 miles to help them with flying (or driving 15 hours from there). BUT given all the Covid risks and uncertainties about health and stamina (especially with the elderly travellers), we all had to admit it was best to not try. In honestly, everybody including Dad seemed to feel better once the decision was made. I was willing to throw tons of funds at this problem (Dad is too cheap), but in the end we had to be realistic.
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@deb922
Just know that we are here for you.
Take care of yourself. You are human and you can only do so much.
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Depending on how mom is feeling and doing in the middle of next month, not even sure about having her transported to wedding on other side of island as it’s tough to predict what traffic will be like. The drive is 1.5-2.5 hours or so unless traffic is considerably worse than usual. Lots of exposure to many people flying in from various places and eating in enclosed space and it’s very tricky and added extra time time risk.
We also have to keep in mind that all 80’s year olds are not in the same spot physically. There are some young 88 year olds out there! @deb922 knows best on that front.
We do know that for most anyone a 14 hour drive is a lot and I don’t know that I am ready and refreshed right away after a long drive like that to be in much good shape to be good company!
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I have rarely subjected myself to drives over 4 hours a day and even those are done rarely and carefully. It’s really just tiring.
My H is a “young” 80 year old and I’m 65. We both do NOT enjoy prolonged car rides—driving or just riding.
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