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For example, the average of SAT or whatever test. How many of the test takers were really trying to get into a 4 year college?
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All of them. Why else do you think they would take SAT? :)</p>
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Why do people think the CC kids are not the norm?
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Because they are not. The norm is at the center of Gaussian curve: SAT around 500-500-500. </p>
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This is, afterall, the place for those who really want to go to a 4 year college. I think the GPA and test scores on CC are a very good representation of those with a common goal.
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Oh no, this is not. This is a place for those who really want to go to a VERY SELECTIVE 4-year college. </p>
<p>And about that analogy with $120K salary... it does not hold, either. Go to your kids' school website and look at the statistics (or ask your counselor). Probably, 75%-90% of the students go to a 4-year colleges (could be even 100% if your neighborhood is that affluent). And the average SATs are around 600 in each subject, right? </p>
<p>See? Your kids (and CC population) are not average after all...</p>
<p>Sometimes I can't believe you are a real person; but it's fun talking to you anyway :)</p>
<p>"OP, please remember that this is CC. This is the forum where I recently read a parent say that their kid was grounded for getting 3 B+'s on their mid-term report, and not a single other poster responded that that might be a bit unreasonable!"</p>
<p>I confess that I read that too and didn't respond. My first thought was how outrageous that sounded to me. But then I gave the parent the benefit of the doubt that perhaps there were mitigating circumstances. Perhaps the student had an A+ average in those classes, and then failed to turn in her assignments afterwards. Maybe the student told her parents that she had no homework in a given class when the truth was she was too busy texting her friends at night, or something to that effect. Maybe she has a brilliant mind and has just decided not to give it her best effort.</p>
<p>I kind of figured someone else would challenge the post, but like you, I was amazed that no one did. Personally, I don't like to get into debates with parents about their discipline methods, even when I find them to be in appropriate in my view. Not a defense, just an explanation. I do agree with you that it was a disturbing post on its face.</p>
<p>That reminds me of a parent in Dallas who used to pay his daughter if she ran certain times in junior high (select) track! The girl wound up with a serious eating disorder and wasn't competing at all by high school. There's a fine line.....</p>
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I have always been happy if my kids did "the best they can." I don't care if they get an A, a B, or a C, as long as they did the best they can.
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You know, I don't really even insist that my kids do "the best they can". I'm pretty sure my oldest could have gotten A's in English. It would have required a lot more interaction with his English teachers, and undoubtedly meant rewriting papers, getting them done earlier so there would have been time for multiple drafts and participating more in class. But was that really the best use of his time? Instead he spent those hours teaching himself programming, learning material that interested him through MIT's Opencourseware, working freelance, doing some volunteer programming which resulted in some stellar recommendations. So what if he got B's in English? It was good enough. Sometime good enough is fine too.</p>
<p>Lots of us have children that we assume look "merely average" to admissions officials at elite colleges.</p>
<p>What was disturbing to me -- and I assume to some others, as well -- was a post from a parent who described the sum and total of his/her own child as "merely average" in the parent's own eyes. Both of my parents have passed away, but I know that neither of them ever would have described me as "merely average." They knew my strengths and my weaknesses, and knew what a unique individual I was, completely independent of my grades or test scores.</p>
<p>I have one child who is a Harvard freshman and another child whose test scores are not much different than those of the OP's child. I feel much more confident that this second child (compared to her older sibling) will lead a successful and happy life. She is very smart, funny, kind-hearted, and is one of the most resilient, optimistic and determined people I know. A joy to be around, my daughter is what I want to be when I "grow up". This kid is far above and beyond average, despite what test scores or admissions officials might indicate. Any college would be incredibly lucky to have her as a student and as an alumni. (She's a hs junior this year.)</p>
<p>Every child -- including the OP's child -- deserves someone who recognizes that child's unique gifts, talents, and potential for greatness. OP, please make sure you love and affirm the unique and incredibly wonderful child you have.</p>
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Even if she never uses her education in a vocation or occupation, it will not really be wasted.
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</p>
<p>Talk about damning with faint praise! Wow.</p>
<p>I graduated with a degree in one thing, and two weeks later, got a job in a completely different field. I'm still in the completely different field, and am working in a job which generally requires a master's degree, which I don't have. I've had managers who had degrees in music education (former band teacher), fashion design (she had great suits, which she'd made herself), accounting (CPA, that one. Also a pilot, and now, a part-time lawyer with a day job), and any number of other things. I might have had a manager or two who actually had degrees in the field in which I work.</p>
<p>"You have all assured me that my average student is not average but normal. For now, our quest is over and she has a place to register come next Fall."</p>
<p>Actually, your D is above average in grades, scores, and she is far above average in being able to rise above difficult challenges such as the death of a parents.</p>
<p>OP: I think some of us got nasty and mean spirited after we saw the word "loser" in your post. Understandable I'd say. You vented and we vented back.
I really don't have much to add to this thread. But it is interesting to read some of the later posts.
I live in one of those crazy "Ivy School or Bust" bubbles so I know the pressure. And my son (who I think is terrific by the way) goes to Penn State - yes the football powerhouse!<br>
Go JoPA! (BTW, I've always thought Penn should be renamed Benjamin Franklin University).<br>
In any case, now that I have calmed down, I want to wish you (the OP) and your D the best. Sounds like your daughter has a reasonable option in front of her. Good luck to you! I have a feeling you will be very proud of her some day.</p>
<p>Linda, kids pick colleges based on all sorts of bizarre things and similarly, reject good options for the same. I think if your D hates Canada then McGill would be a bad choice. A friend of my S's didn't want to go to Princeton because the gargoyles on the buildings made him nervous (he ended up at Cornell which apparently had less scary architecture).</p>
<p>Who knows why? Does it matter? If she's got an acceptance to a school she's excited about, you can afford, and isn't going to involve three airplanes to get back and forth-- then Congrats! You get to spend the rest of the year trying to have quality time together (which of course is an excruciating experience for a senior- particularly a girl!)</p>
<p>It sounds like you have a good answer right on your plate. An acceptance to an in-state school that is affordable, a nice distance from home and she likes it. What's not to love? Perhaps she will excel there. And if it does turn out that college is not for her, you won't have spent an exhorbitant amount of money.</p>
<p>Congratulations to her and to you. If she's happy, we're all happy. We should all be so reasonable and quit chasing prestige at any price.</p>
<p>ok.. while i havent read every post.. I think I actually "get" OP's original post. However, for whatever my oldest lacked in grades and test scores, she made up for in being simply a great human being. You know.. education is about being a good generalist. Life is about finding what you love to do. Often the two are not compatible.</p>
<p>Has anyone suggested on here that the daughter be tested for ADHD inattentive type? There is no hyperactivity and they basically seem uninvolved, bored, disinterested. This is not to suggest there is a medical dx for everything, but it struck me as interesting that the daughter does well in AP classes. My daughter ALWAYS did better in the advanced classes. It is true that the AP and other advanced classes typically have the better teachers, but the real truth for my oldest D was that she basically performed to the middle of any class she was in. Quite opposite of our youngest daughter -- a current freshman in HS -- who thinks she is going to be labeled dumb for not being in the accelerated curriculum where the expectations and speed might bury her at her private school.</p>
<p>I never expected A's from my kids, but I did expect they do their best and there were some classes where an A was their best and others where a B+ is and still others where they would be deemed lucky to get a B! But for my son, who is probably very capable of getting straight A's in every single subject also played three sports and had tons of friends. From the time he was small, we felt he needed the balance and permission to not always be perfect. My youngest, we need to push her a little more but without comparing her to her brother. </p>
<p>In any event.. I get what you are saying, but your expectations have a self-fulfilling aspect to them. My oldest is now 24. She managed to survive only a year in college despite her ability to get in to a great school AND get a huge scholarship for her community service. I worry hugely about her still, but she is finding her way and I am fairly confident she will go back to school at some point. The thing is, she is not her brother. And she may only be "average" when it comes to intelligence, but she is so far above average as a caring human being. She lives on her own, has a decent paying job and a group of friends that love her and hasn't asked us for a dime -- hard to tell a 24 year old living on their own what they ought to do. Do I think she is under-achieving? Absolutely. But I am trying to let go of this because frankly, I think my trying to push what I thought she needed to succeed only made her feel a deeper inadequacy. </p>
<p>And seriously.. if average is in the middle... when the heck did it become a crime to be average or even accept your average kid? There is something seriously wrong in a world where even slightly above average isn't above average enough.</p>
<p>Did anyone else wonder if the OP is actually the daughter, floating that description to see if the responses gibe with her perception of her situation? That was my first reaction.</p>
The thing is, she is not her brother. And she may only be "average" when it comes to intelligence, but she is so far above average as a caring human being.
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<p>I really don't like parent treating their daughters like this. In my view 80% of the children are made by the environment they are brought up in. 10% are born genius and another 10% difficult to change. But for majority of 80% of the children the fault lies with the parent.
Some time it become very difficult to understand what action on the parts of parent actually cause problem with the children. The statements of negative comparison are really discouraging and should be avoided.</p>
<p>Any child will flourish with encouragements and devotion of time to their upbringing. I’m not sure which college D will end up but I’ll always be supportive of her. I’m certain if parent help children then they will flourish from whatever college/universities they end up attending. The key is the support. If you don’t provide that the children will be messed up.</p>
<p>When my kids were in Kindergarten, I also advised them that doing homework was the route to straight A's. They were all reasonably bright and I knew this to be true, at least in elementary school. It's also the best path to doing well in the upper levels, even if the course material becomes more challenging. So what if I was indoctrinating them? Better than getting into the habit of blowing off homework.</p>
<p>Which one of them did anyway, in HS! :(</p>
<p>"as the twig is bent, so grows the tree..." One can always hope.</p>
<p>And no, I didn't mind if they got less than A's while taking the hardest courses possible.</p>
<p>"In my view 80% of the children are made by the environment they are brought up in. 10% are born genius and another 10% difficult to change. But for majority of 80% of the children the fault lies with the parent."</p>
<p>Those of us who are mothers of twins know that this isn't true. Some differences you can see right at birth, even with identical environments.</p>
<p>Right. What about the kid who grows up in a shall we say "challenging" environment but becomes a success anyway? They have more resilience than most. It certainly wasn't anything their parent or guardian did.</p>