My child is merely average.

Parents Forum
81

<p>"Without naming names, a few of them look and feel like high schools...When you are standing in a dorm room the size of a closet and notice the paint peeling from the exposed pipes, there is a disconnect between that and the 47K annual tuition...Anyone who wants to go to college can, if they have enough money. And that is part of the undercurrent of Mr. Pope's book: lower yr expectations and open yr wallet."</p>

<p>If you read the book you'd know that the author recommended schools based not on the attractiveness of their physical plant but on the quality of the teaching staff, and the staff and administration's commitment to helping each student realize his or her potential.</p>

<p>And I hope your child doesn't read this site and recognize your posts.</p>

82

<p>LC, Although you seem to believe it's not the case, I think there's a strong likelihood the death of your daughter's father affected her in ways that aren't readily apparent.</p>

<p>I have some experience here. My brother was killed in an auto accident when I was a sophomore in college. Before his death, I was a stellar student: HS valedictorian with a 4.0 GPA, high SAT and ACT scores, and 4.0 college GPA. I was also a serious student of the piano and heavily involved in school activities.</p>

<p>After my brother's death, I couldn't understand why I had to struggle to get Bs and Cs in my college coursework. I studied harder than I'd ever studied in my life, but it wasn't reflected in my grades. I lost interest in everything. I stopped playing the piano and I dropped out of all the activities in which I'd been involved. Most of my friends had no idea anything was wrong with me, as I still had normal social interactions with them. I didn't realize how bad it was until I skipped finals one semester and had to deal with the fallout. Luckily, my university was very understanding and let me take a medical withdrawal from school.</p>

<p>Looking back, I clearly see now that my brother's death profoundly affected me. The one constant in my life--my family--was forever changed. My parents were shells of their former selves and it broke my heart. It was an extremely difficult process for this young adult to come to terms with a world that would never again be the same for me or my family.</p>

<p>Fortunately, time worked wonders. I began taking courses part-time after a year or so and gradually worked back into a full-time schedule. From that point on, I never made another B (or lower.) I was even awarded the Outstanding Student Award in my particular major when I graduated.</p>

<p>SO maybe, LC, your daughter is like I was: She's dealing with feelings about her father's death that she can't articulate, but which are reflected in her (lack of) activities and academic coursework. My advice is to give her some time to come to grips with the reality of a life that doesn't include her father. Let her go to a four-year college. Even if she's an average student, she'll have life experiences that can't be replicated in a trade school. And maybe, just maybe, she'll surprise everyone.</p>

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<p>Please remember LC, our job as parents is NOT to insure that our kids get into a top college. (And yes, I know that this is College Confidential, not Happiness Confidential). Our job is make sure that we have raised kids who are emotionally secure, reasonably intelligent, reasonably happy, and able to be self-sufficient in the world. This is what we are there for in the long haul. While I am certainly guilty of taking my eye off the long-term goals at times, and get angry, frustrated or disappointed with my kids, I know that raising a solid kid is a hundred times more important than where --or even if--they go to college. Ultimately, we should all work to shape our kids into the best people they can be, not just the best students. Long after we're gone, if we've done our job, they will remember and thank us for that rather than how we prodded them to get into Harvard or Yale.</p>

84

<p>When I consider my own Ds, in many ways, they are both like the OP's D - similar test scores, full social life, one had several singular achievements in high school that tended to make her stand out from the crowd (also more opportunities due to our improving financial situation by the time her turn came), both were extremely well-liked by peers and teachers but probably not the first to come to teachers' minds when they thought of "intellectual" students. The thing is, they are average bright kids, not average dumb kids. Older D attended a good state school because that's what we could afford at the time, while younger D is in a good LAC. </p>

<p>Older D did fine at the state U. I wouldn't say it was a life-changing experience for her intellectually, but she and her husband now run a successful business, are raising three beautiful children, and are involved in politics and community service in their town, and I could not ask for more. Younger D is truly thriving at her LAC. It is a sacrifice to pay for it, but it is one I'm willing to make. </p>

<p>I think both of my girls, while having some good leadership qualities, are more the type that rise to the level of those around them rather than being the standard setters. They don't seem to have quite the same level of intense competitive drive that I have (not to be better than anyone else, but to always outdo myself) BUT I think they are healthy and balanced while I have to admit that at times I pointless push myself more than necessary. OP, I think your child might be somewhat like mine....the fact that she is successfully taking three AP classes, assuming the courses are taught with appropriate rigor, indicates that she truly has what it takes to be successful in college, and I think you can look forward to her maturing and developing in the right setting.</p>

<p>When I first started reading CC, I thought my D was a genius and I had visions of the Ivies, Swarthmore, Middlebury, etc. As I kept reading, I figured out that D, while indeed one of the better students in her small high school, was better suited to the kinds of schools she'd always had in mind anyway, and she ended up with a very good fit.</p>

<p>I really think blossom's advice, including that passed on by BigAppleDaddy, is very insightful. My advice is to relax and enjoy your child. As for applications, do the clerical legwork and keep track of deadlines if you feel you must (I did), and then wait for the results (it's so easy to say that, now that it's not me). If the list is appropriate, I think you'll be pleased with the possibilities. </p>

<p>Are you and your child still making the list? Maybe we can help with that if you give us some parameters.</p>

85

<p>Linda- you are wrong on everything in your post except for the Math and Chinese. I work in HR for a global organization, and sigh.... we do love those math majors. And fluency in Mandarin, all things being equal- is highly prized.</p>

<p>However, you have bought into a very Darwinian world view on raising children, and I hate to say it, it is a world view propagated by people trying to sell us all stuff. Tutoring and lessons and Baby Mozart tapes and "summer experiences" and cello lessons and what-not. If you do all those things your kid has a chance at a rung on the ladder. If you don't do those things your kid is a loser and so are you, and by the way, better practice saying, "would you like fries with that".</p>

<p>This is wrong- not just because it's objectionable, but because it is empirically wrong in terms of assessing how the real world works. For every prodigy there are thousands of talented, successful adults out there who spent HS goofing around with their friends and avoiding adult interaction, be it teachers, counselors, or well-meaning busy-bodies in the neighborhood.</p>

<p>Your D needs you to be encouraging her to aim as high as she can go or wants to go or cares to go. If she decides to become a hairdresser or a plumber or an HVAC repair person- then great. The world certainly needs people who know how to do stuff. If she decides to become a physician (do you know how many truly great dr's had mediocre high school records?) or an economist or a writer or whatever- then encourage that too. </p>

<p>I don't think you are Mommy Dearest- I think you are to be commended for soldiering on despite the challenges life has thrown your way. But to throw in the towel on your D this early in the game is so defeatist.</p>

<p>My kids never worked to their potential whle they were living under my roof. Now they are succeeding out there in the real world in a way that I couldn't have imagined. (and none of them can order a damn thing in a Mexican restaurant, and they took Spanish for a lot more years than your D did.) I spent their HS years biting my tongue as other kids competed in Intel and won Olympiads and went to DC on some leadership thing to meet with Cabinet heads. They had friends who were achieving unimaginable things- and they were the kids on the sofa. But H and I were consistent with one message: whatever you do in life is up to you. We are there to back you, encourage you, help you if you want it- but it's up to you. </p>

<p>Life isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. All you can do now is to give her unconditional love, let her know that no matter what she decides to do in life you will be her number one fan and champion, and bite your tongue when you feel a critical remark coming on.</p>

<p>And remember to be gracious down the road when someone says, "gosh, you must have been a fantastic mom to have such a great kid". Look modest too- it really helps.</p>

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<p>blossom, may I subscribe to your inspirational-message-a-day service? I find your posts so uplifting!!</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>Linda, I don't have time to read through this whole thread.... but please don't sell your daughter short -- AND please do NOT sell the " big mediocre public colleges" short either. I've got a kid who will graduate with a degree from an Ivy & another one who graduated last year from a CSU (a medium-sized "mediocre public college") -- the CSU graduate was a National Merit finalist with combined SAT scores that were about 200 points higher than his younger sister's -- and his experience at the mediocre college wasn't all that bad -- he ended up with opportunities there that are equal or better than anything he probably would have attained at a pricier or more prestigious school. Sometimes its better to be in a place where the competition is not too intense. </p>

<p>It just took my son a little bit longer to find his passion -- he was age 25 when he finally graduated from college -- which isn't a problem for me, since he has been supporting himself since age 20 and has had a series of very interesting and engaging jobs. However, in high school he seemed lazy and other than a stint at a local pizza parlor didn't have much in the way of work experience -- not all teenagers grow up on the same schedule. (Actually, its not all that great to be the parent of a precocious kid in any case.... I honestly did not see very much of my more ambitious daughter during her high school years, given that she was so busy with activities and commitments outside the home -- and I haven't seen much of her since she started college either.)</p>

<p>I don't know what your daughter WANTS but the point is that the public colleges are there to serve a constituency, and not all students hit their stride or find their passions during their high school years. One advantage of your in-state public is that it is more affordable -- meaning that your daughter can attend with less debt, giving her more (not less) options for employment down the line.</p>

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<p>Linda, my college ranked 2999th in the country. In fact, the school was on probation for most of the time I was there. To top that, I was merely an average student in the school, almost on probation myself :-))... If I were to believe the federal government statistics, I am in the top 10% salaries bracket in the country or something like that. I love what I've been doing all these years. I am sure your D's stats are much better than mine -- by 400%, at least. She'll be doing fine. Twenty five years from now, you'd be amazed at her accomplishment :-)</p>

89

<p>
[quote]
blossom, may I subscribe to your inspirational-message-a-day service? I find your posts so uplifting!!

[/quote]

Me too, me too!! I just combined all of your thread posts (including the one posted by Big Apple) and printed them out. I'm hanging the paper in my work space to keep me on the right parenting track. So often, I impose my own extreme expectations on my hs junior. I have to keep reminding myself that he's fine, he's great; the hours spent on WOW type computer games does not mean he'll end up homeless (or worse, in my basement!).</p>

<p>
[quote]
...starting today, just concentrate on always thinking in a positive way about your D, verbally comment positively to her about herself, look for the positive things she does as if she were in second grade again.

[/quote]

And I think this is excellent advice, so I'm going to start doing it too.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Starbright, THANK YOU for the awesome suggestion; I actually stayed across the street (hotel) from McGill last year but assumed that the instruction was in French.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The quote above makes me think that what are you saying has more to do with financing your daughter's education than doubt that she will be okay after matriculating to a 4 year school. It seems like you are on your way to finding one solution already. Good for you, and best wishes to your daughter!</p>

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<p>Wow, blossom and others are being very encouraging and supportive. I am ANGRY reading this thread, as OP seems to handily insult her own daughter (the more heinous crime) and at the same time scads of other "average" students, as well as about 3/4 of the colleges and universities in this country. All in the name of being "honest"!<br>
This is "Ivy or bust" thinking at its most rampant . . .
Just horrible.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
..I have an average kid. I am not a monster or insane: I have an average kid. And I know it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your child has an above average SAT score and is taking three AP classes yet you describe her a loser, dumb and that her SAT score is "laughable." There is a disconnect here that you keep trying to justify. </p>

<p>I do not think you are insane or a monster. I think there is something going on that is keeping your from realizing how out of touch with reality you are and you are taking it out on your child. Typically people turn depression inward, perhaps you have focused yours on your daughter. I don't know. </p>

<p>You can continue to defend what you've said, grasp onto the idea that she needs to be a plumber or shipped out of the country or you can get help. </p>

<p>I understand wanting to be polite but we need to remember that there is a real child in the middle of this. The OP cannot understand why her daughter is escaping into the internet. Is it really in this child's best interest to pretend that we cannot possibly see why she might be doing that? Is it helping this child to play along that her mother's pov is valid? I do not believe it is. </p>

<p>There is something wrong here. And it is not with the daughter. The OP needs help. Pretending this is really a thread about a suitable trade school or college is enabling the OP to continue to focus on the child as the problem is not helpful.</p>

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<p>Well..then <em>I</em> also have an average child, and I'm very proud of her accomplishments. She works hard, is well liked, has lots of friends, is very self sufficient, and is just a terrific kid. I have never, and never will judge her by some "numbers" compared to other kids her age or grade. I will say that my kid does have some very strong interests, but her grades and SAT scores are JUST LIKE the OP's. She is a very successful college student who got accepted with merit aid to 4/5 schools to which she applied. She is in a highly challenging major and is thriving.</p>

<p>No...she wasn't a NMSF or class val or sal. No she didn't win all kinds of honors throughout school. No, she didn't get 5's on the three AP tests she took. No she didn't get accepted to a top 50 college.</p>

<p>SO WHAT??? I'm sorry, but I've read most of this thread and I have to ask the OP to please sit back and look at the positive things her child has done and is doing. It does NO ONE (no one) any good to fixate on a perceive negative situation, especially since what the OP has posted is really what MOST kids in the U.S. are like. Most kids are in the range of AVERAGE...that's statistically what AVERAGE means. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
You can continue to defend what you've said, grasp onto the idea that she needs to be a plumber or shipped out of the country or you can get help.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Amen. (10 char)</p>

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<p>Isn't the most important thing for your D to be happy? When it comes down to it, that is all I really want for my children. My DS is much more accomplished than my DD. Yet, I worry that he isn't really happy. Nothing is ever good enough for him. Due in large part to his amazing work ethic, his Dad and I will always have plenty to brag about, good grades, test scores, ECs. While it is easy to get caught up in that, I really wish that he was truly happy instead of always trying to be perfect. His younger sister on the other hand is a good student but not a fabulous student like him. She is also involved in many activities but doesn't worry as much about excelling so she doesn't. And yet she has tons of friends and seems to really enjoy life. If I had to choose, I think I'd like to be more like her.</p>

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<p>To the OP: Wow, you are really jumping the gun here. Your daughter is young and has not shown all of what she can be. Your negativity may bring her down...or at least make her want to run away from you and your toxic views. You may think you're hiding it but I'm sure it shows in your glances, body language and off-hand comments.<br>
Remember that smart kids don't always go on to be stars. Or they start out big and then fizzle out. Remember Enron? Those were some pretty above average folks.<br>
I agree that you may need help but I also think your posts show that this is unlikely to happen. So, try something simple. Get a book on positive thinking. Step away from yourself and think about how your daughter feels.<br>
You're are NOT being realistic....toxic is a better description.</p>

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<p>I just hugged my slightly above "average" number 2 and if slightly above average number 1 were not away at college I'd hug him, too. #3 is running around somewhere but I'll hug him when he gets home. Any kid taking a rigorous classload and heading for college is "above average" in my book. OP, your daughter is above "average" and you need to give her a hug, too, and shake off your feelings.</p>

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<p>My oldest has epilepsy and a learning disabiltiy. He has been on the 7 year plan to try and get his AA from the community college. He works at a day care center, which almost didn't hire him because of the epilepsy. He takes busses an hour each way to get to his job and then back to try to take a general math class for the 3rd time because he didn't pass the first 2 times.He had to watch his 2 younger brothers go off to college.
I would have LOVED for him to be average...to be capable of taking an AP class, to be able to go off to college like his brothers, do be able to drive.</p>

<p>I shouldn't read these threads.</p>

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<p>BEC,
I hope you're very proud of your oldest S. He sounds like a gem and is fortunate to have your wonderful support in working toward his potential. </p>

<p>It is so frustrating and heartbreaking when our kids have limitations due to things far beyond their control. Mine have been struggling with chronic health issues so they can't remember what "normal" feels like, only "junk" or "junker." Normal would sure sound good to them.</p>

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<p>Linda, </p>

<p>Reading your posts makes me realize that I often fail by not appreciating my son for what he is. I read about the superstars on CC and wish my son was one of them, instead of realizing how much I love the kid on the sofa.</p>

<p>I have a couple of questions about your trips to visit some of the Colleges That Change Lives. You said they're like high schools; in what way? More importantly, how did your daughter feel about them? Were there schools where she thought she could thrive? </p>

<p>What I like about the CTCLs is exactly that they (claim to) take kids like yours or mine, not worldbeaters but ordinary bright kids*, and help them grow and develop. The kid who is qualified for Yale or Harvard doesn't need her life changed; it's already fine. But the more normal teenager needs a kick in the butt, a helping hand and an exposure to some interesting fields of study, and that, I hope, is what mine will get at one of the Colleges That Change Lives.</p>

<ul>
<li>yes, ordinary bright kids. Your daughter is taking three AP's and got good solid SAT scores. She is well above average.</li>
</ul>