My child refuses to consider safety schools and financial limitations

<p>“I wasn’t able to spend much time this past year doing this research on colleges with her, as I was going to school and working fulltime, so that’s why we’re dealing with this now. Maybe that’s why she’s upset with me?”</p>

<p>You have nothing to feel guilty about. You are obviously doing a yeoman job of dealing with an extremely difficult situation.</p>

<p>How about this idea. Suggest that D call the admissions office at each of the school in which she has interest, describe her stats and asked about the merit aid situation. In my experience, many schools are quite forthcoming in giving a fairly small range. It will at least give her more information about the reality of the situation. (Although, frankly, it sounds like she just doesn’t want to hear it).</p>

<p>This is such a tough situation. On another forum, someone suggested that discussion about college applications be completely removed from daily interaction and conversations. Tell your child that you will devote, for example, 2 hours on Sunday morning to discuss anything kid is concerned about and use the 2 hour window to set some simple goals for the forthcoming week…ie an essay draft, meeting with counselor, transcript requests, scholarship applications etc. Unless there is a really urgent issue during the week…let it alone and write it down for discussion for the designated time. I keep a little list on the refrigerator so I know I won’t forget. It has helped us tremendously because it doesn’t sour our daily interacton and we are both less stressed on sunday morning eating bagels and having some coffee as we tackle this. I put the computer on the table and offer to type in info into applications or he can dictate ideas for an essay (he hates to type while composing). I also work full time, husband is out of the country for weeks on end, and have some evening activities. I totally blew my top on a Tuesday evening when he refused to apply to a financial safety in-state. Finally, this Sunday – a compromise. We agreed that I will fill in the application for the in-state safety (no essay required!) and he will get the transcripts and recommendations done this week for that school. He also agreed to visit safety state in the spring once the FA/merit info on his top choices come in if things look grim (he is so certain he can get into top-name U with merit aid). If I am wrong, hey, I couldn’t be happier and he can say “I told you so…” for ever. If I am right I will do all in my power to make safety state a successful outcome and never, ever will “I told you so” cross my lips.</p>

<p>I wanted to add to and edit the above post (#180), but was too late. :(</p>

<p>Your D’s words about it being a “waste” to apply to “mommy choices” are rather meaningless, now. Some of those mommy choices may look real good if she doesn’t get accepted to her top choices or their F/A packages are unreasonable.</p>

<p>That said, I would let her apply to some of her “top choices” (no EDs) - but only with the understanding that she’ll be applying to some financial safeties, too. If you can (I know you’re a busy mom), try to do some campus tours at some safeties with your D very soon (even if it has to be on a weekend). She needs to see that some of the less expensive options are viable. Of course, it’s important that you pick a few safeties to visit that you’ve determined are viable by looking online using virtual tours or other means. </p>

<p>It would be wrong to deny her the option of at least applying to a few of her top choices, because she’d always wonder what they would offer if she were admitted. When the F/A packages come in, you’ll both be able to sanely sit down and look at the options between top schools and financial safeties. </p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>{{{ more hugs }}} …because it’s so hard to be a parent sometimes during the college process.</p>

<p>Northstar and others are right. “Many students are like this. That’s their way of trying to become grown up.”</p>

<p>However, as we all know, kids want to make this adult decision without any means to pay for it. This is no different from a 30 year old wanting to buy a dream car with money that he doesn’t have. </p>

<p>Your D is likely hearing all kinds of exciting plans from friends/classmates during this time. But, I (and others) will tell you that come spring, many of those kids with “high and mighty plans” will also be forced to look at less expensive options. </p>

<p>Some of my kids’ classmates who “talked big” about going to this or that elite college, humbly accepted going to other colleges when the finances didn’t pan out. Does that mean that they unhappily went to their safeties? No! The only unhappy student is the one who only had one financial safety on her list. She (and her silly parents) refer to going to that school as a “consolation prize.” This is one of the reasons that I stress that kids need to apply to more than one financial safety. Then, come spring, they’ll have more than one choice if the pricier schools aren’t doable. </p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>“She tells me that it’s her education, so she should be able to apply anywhere she wants (which is what some friends of mine think, as well).”</p>

<p>I’m another one, as long as she pays the application fees. Applying can be a great learning process. Unless GWU experts think there is an admissions advantage to applying ED, she should wait for RD there as well. </p>

<p>This doesn’t mean she can attend anywhere she wants; if parents are paying, veto power is appropriate. E.g., we told our kids they could go to any school they wanted, as long as the finances worked, and that we did have veto power. Fortunately, we were happy with their choices.</p>

<p>It works both ways; sometimes parents can also warm up to a student’s choice of schools.</p>

<p>Is Tufts on your D’s list? They are very well known for their International Relations program, and fit your D’s geographic boundaries. Although Tufts is need aware in admissions, it is full-need. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/776541-some-questions-prospective-student.html#post1063231017[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/776541-some-questions-prospective-student.html#post1063231017&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I definitely think she should apply anywhere she wants PROVIDED she pays for some apps or calls and requests waivers.</p>

<p>She is still in the “prestige time.” Some folks handle situations better if they know they got into a “more selcetive” school yet “choose” to attend the financially responsible.</p>

<p>As far as visiting financial safeties – choose which to visit wisely – aside from the prestige factor determine what else is driving her choices and match up the safety with that. For example, if it is “look” of campus then choose a “pretty” campus like TCNJ. If it is the major then be sure to NOT visit on a Saturday, but instead a weekday & request in advance to sit in on a class. </p>

<p>Also, can a family friend go with her on the safety school visit? This may alleviate some tension & rather than her touring with resentment towards you she can actually focus her energies on taking in the tour.</p>

<p>Again, at this income level there are no financial safeties. You are not “choosing” a college you are looking for an opportunity to move forward with your life. This student has high SAT scores and GPA, which if recognized may provide that opportunity. However a late start, issues with the non-custodial form and lack of timely guidance are making things difficult.
Make some calls and get your GC involved.</p>

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<p>This is such a TRUE statement!!! Bravo!! :)</p>

<p>There’s just something about getting that nice merit award in writing (often on pretty paper) that makes a kid feel very wanted! :)</p>

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<p>That’s not really true. If the OP’s D applied to certain colleges that give high automatic scholarships for certain stats, that would be a financial safety.</p>

<p>BTW…
To the OP…</p>

<p>Have you determined how much (if anything) you can reasonably afford to spend on her college costs each year? (even if it’s just transportation money to get D home for holidays).</p>

<p>If she insists on applying to GW ED then sit with her and have her make the call to the GW admissions office. She should be honest with them and tell them what her financial situation is. Then she will hear it straight up.</p>

<p>I am not sure why one poster said she would not like Fairleigh Dickenson. FDU is a fine school and they have some generous merit scholarships. They have rolling admissions and she would hear from admissions and her merit scholarship in a matter of weeks. If she applies online it’s free.<br>
[B.A</a>. in International Studies :: Fairleigh Dickinson University](<a href=“http://view.fdu.edu/default.aspx?id=6120]B.A”>http://view.fdu.edu/default.aspx?id=6120)
This is one of a number of nearby private schools in which she could do well in the merit/need based aid game.</p>

<p>This thread reminds me of that show “Say Yes to the Dress!”. My girls were watching it over the summer. One thing they said was always get the budget up front and don’t ever put a girl with a $2500 budget into a $6000 dress. They will leave heartbroken.<br>
There are many “$2500” schools to love but if you fall in love with the “$6000” school there will probably be a broken heart - for a while.</p>

<p>Lastly, if she doesn’t believe you about GW ED - have her call the admissions department and speak with a counselor. she should be honest and unapologetic about her circumstances - they will be honest with her in return. This takes the heat off of you.</p>

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<p>It’s like shopping for homes…if your budget is - say $350k - you’ll never be satisfied with what you can buy if you first spend time looking at million dollar homes.</p>

<p>BTW…I still would not let her apply ED, too risky. It’s better to see all the offers before deciding.</p>

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Oh, I fully agree. She would lose her bargaining power of which I think she has quite a lot of at some schools.</p>

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<p>Bottom line, how much are you willing and able to contribute financially? It isn’t “hers” unless she is paying her way, 100%. Given your income level, its possible that will be the case – that is, you’ve probably got a 0 or near-0 EFC on the FAFSA, and somewhere along the line there may be colleges that will meet her full need.</p>

<p>Your worry is reality-based – she is setting herself up for problems by reaching too high, especially when she looks at colleges that do not meet full need or require info from the non-custodial parent. </p>

<p>But I think that if you haven’t had the money talk, now is the time. And given her attitude, I think that the more specific you are, the better. That is, “we’ll see” or “I’ll do my best to help out” are too vague. </p>

<p>It would also be a good time for you to ask what her plans are for next year if she doesn’t get into or can’t afford her top choice colleges. If living at home rent-free after September 2010 is not going to be an option, now’s the time to let her know.</p>

<p>“She tells me that it’s her education, so she should be able to apply anywhere she wants.”</p>

<p>Well, using that logic…you could aks her if it would be reasonable for you to have the attitude that, “This is my life, so I should be able to buy any house that I want.”? Ask her how reasonable that attitude would be?</p>

<p>^ No, it’s different logic. Applying is like house hunting; attending is like buying. We’ve gone to many open houses we knew we couldn’t afford. ;)</p>

<p>“I still would not let her apply ED, too risky. It’s better to see all the offers before deciding.”</p>

<p>But do note that the only risk is not paying the least possible amount for her education.</p>

<p>^^^ </p>

<p>Yes, so have we…but when we’re actually “house hunting” (rather than just playing around looking at pricey, cool homes), we try to limit our “shopping” to affordable housing, otherwise we’re dissatisfied with our options.</p>

<p>and, I’m annoyed that I missed the time to edit my above post…should be…“you could aks her…”</p>

<p>I’m going to come at this from another angle and say to let your D go ahead and apply, but make it clear that she will have to take out the loans in HER name. She can do it and if she wants it badly enough, she will. Make sure that she reads the fine print on all of the loan apps -or search around to find a site where she can read about loan conditions beforehand.
Also, get her looking for each and every kind of local scholarship/grant she can qualify for- the HS guidance office can be of some help with this. Those may be small, but a half-dozen small awards add up to something substantial.
I wouldn’t discourage her or forbid her, but I would make the financial situation at home very clear and do make sure that she understands the penalties for not repaying a loan! Good luck to both you and your daughter!</p>

<p>The $20,000 in loans (re post #165) will automatically be in her name, but unless she has an established credit history (common or rare at this age?), I think she won’t be able to get much more than that (at least until grad school).</p>

<p>I also agree that she should apply anywhere she likes (she pays the fees), but it would be great if someone can get her to think realistically so that she’s not wasting her money.</p>

<p>Federal loans would be in her name. In 4 years the Subsidized Stafford loans come to a total of $19,000. On top of that she can borrow another $2,000/year unsubsidized (which I don’t recommend). Some schools have Perkins loans available too that will give her up to a max of $5,500/year.
All of this would be in HER name, only.<br>
For private or alternative loans she would need a credit history or co-signer.</p>

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<p>So, in such a case, she’d be borrowing about $10k a year if she availed herself of the above. Repayment would be $460 per month for TEN LONG years. I still think that’s too much. </p>

<p>I don’t know any young educated working women (ages 23-26 or so) that have an extra $460 per month after paying for rent, utilities, food, car, car maintenance, insurance, gasoline, clothes (business and dating), personal expenses, entertainment, etc, etc. Most young women are just able to pay their living expenses and save a little. Female upkeep is an expensive task…especially for single women.</p>

<p>I wonder what replies we’d get if we made a thread…“How much did your kid borrow, what is his degree, how much is his payment, how much did he earn shortly after college, and how is he managing with debt?”</p>