My child refuses to consider safety schools and financial limitations

<p>RE: Loans -
The vast majority of kids with very limited means who get finanacial aid are going to have loans. The only exception might be a “no-loan school”.
Get used to the fact that loans will be involved. Just be smart about it.
Financial packages will include Federal Stafford Subsidized Loans - there are maximum’s on what a student can borrow each year - 1st year 3500, 2nd year 4500 3-4th years 5500.
This is barely enought to make a dent in a private school but it helps.<br>
A student with all of these loans will graduate $19,000 in debt.<br>
Other federal loans that are some times available are the Perkins loans and they are a better deal than that Stafford Loans - the amounts, again are limited.</p>

<p>To allow/encourage a student to borrow more than this is - IMO - dangerous. A student can borrow additional amounts as Un Sub Staffords but the interest will need to be paid while in school or it will accumulate.
Private loans are the worst deal for financially needy families. Be very very careful here.
You also may be encourage to take out a PLUS loan. This is NOT a good deal for a financially needy family - you can easily wrack up hefty monthly payments without clear means to pay it back. </p>

<p>Bottom line - expect that your daughter will be borrowing some money - just don’t get carried away.</p>

<p>Learn as much as you can about financial aid, what money is available and where it comes from.</p>

<p>

Very true.</p>

<p>“My DS1 got a free-ride to UA just on NMF status. My DS2 got full-tuition + $2500/yr to UA without an essay or ECs…just scores and transcript…that was it!”</p>

<p>Yes, there are very easy to obtain scholarships for National Merit, National Hispanic, and National Achievement scholars, but there’s no indication the OP’s D has the stats for such scholarships. Her stats are good,but not so outstanding that colleges would be throwing full financial aid packages at her to try to lure her from Ivies, which is how your D got those great offers. </p>

<p>The rare full scholarship packages for students like the OP’s D usually require elaborate scholarship applications and interviews, and are extremely hard to get. They probably will be even harder to get this year because many colleges are reducing their merit aid scholarships to provide more need-based scholarships. Such colleges typically lack the resources to meet the full demonstrated financial need of most students that they accept.</p>

<p>Northstarmom, I do agree with you that this student’s best bet will probably be an instate public-- not only because expenses will be lower and federal grants will help but because the student may be eligible for state aid (and most state need-based aid is limited to students who stay instate). If the girl really doesn’t want to go to an instate public, I don’t see any harm in applying to colleges that have a good record of financial aid and are in her ballpark. Because there is a Profile problem, I would say those will likely be privates (probably instate if NJ offers good needbased state grants) where she is near the top of the applicant pool. I really had no problem with her having UChicago as a a reach (and/or some other similar school that is below Ivy but meets full need) since it meets full need, but if there’s a Profile issue, she won’t be able to get her financial aid processed. </p>

<p>I do want to tell the OP that, with my first child, I (also a single mother whose kids are Pell-Grant eligible) made the same mistake she is being counseled to make. I thought out-of-state publics would be cheaper. Oh, and my kid applied to American which appeared to be a match. In the end, kid was surprisingly turned down at AU (I really suspect it was the need, AU is not need-blind and kiddo wasn’t an attractive enough candidate for them to meet enough need for us to attend so they knew she wouldn’t attend) and kiddo was accepted at two out-of-state publics. One of the oos publics gave merit aid, but the gaps were still sizeable: $11K/year at one school and $14K/year at the other. Oh, and our financial safety LOST my kid’s application!!! (This is why I always say to have two financial safeties. Two of my kids have had their apps lost and both times it was at safeties.) Kiddo almost didn’t go away to school because I thought oos publics would be “cheaper” and would care that her stats were above their mean. (They cared but not enough to meet our substantial need.)</p>

<p>No way are out of state publics inexpensive unless the applicant qualifies for a merit scholarship.</p>

<p>gw financial aid info</p>

<p>February 8, 2008</p>

<p>THE GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAUNCHES FIVE-YEAR
PLAN ADDRESSING AFFORDABILITY AND COST</p>

<p>No Tuition Increase for Returning Undergraduates As GW Continues
Fixed-Tuition/Guaranteed Financial Aid Program</p>

<p>GW Will Quadruple Fund Raising for Student Aid to $40 Million Per Year</p>

<p>University Will Increase Institutional Grants By $6 Million for Incoming Freshmen Demonstrating Need; Plan Also Will Reduce Average Debt Burden</p>

<p>WASHINGTON - The George Washington University Board of Trustees today announced approval of a five-year plan to address affordability and cost for undergraduates. Central to the plan is the university’s commitment to moderate tuition increases, improve fund-raising efforts for student aid, provide additional funding for institutional grants to incoming freshmen, lower the average student debt burden upon graduation, and continue its fixed-tuition/guaranteed financial aid program.</p>

<p>“The affordability of higher education is a pressing concern for American families,” said GW President Steven Knapp. “We are committed to moderating overall costs and to preserving the benefits and predictability that our fixed-tuition program offers students and their families. Our goal is to reduce our tuition dependency as an institution by bolstering philanthropic support, especially for student aid. This shift cannot happen overnight, but this plan is a first step.”</p>

<p>GW’s fixed-tuition/guaranteed financial aid program, in place since 2004, locks in the undergraduate tuition rate for up to five years. As a result, returning sophomores, juniors, seniors, and fifth year undergraduates will see NO tuition increase in the 2008-2009 academic year.</p>

<p>Tuition for freshmen entering in fall 2008 will increase 3 percent, reflecting the current rate of inflation. This price ($40,392) also will be locked in for up to five years under the fixed-tuition program.</p>

<p>In conjunction with fixed tuition, the university will continue its guarantee that need- and merit-based institutional financial assistance will remain at least at the levels awarded at the time of the student’s initial enrollment. If further need is demonstrated, the amount of aid could go up but it will not go down. </p>

<p>GW will provide $118 million in institutional financial assistance for undergraduates in 2008-2009. This amount includes a $6 million increase in institutional grants for incoming freshman.</p>

<p>The university also offers 50 percent tuition discounts for siblings. “My twin sister and I are both glad we came to GW,” said Allison Huggins, Class of 2008. “We picked the university for a variety of reasons including GW’s strong programs in international affairs and journalism, internship opportunities, and faculty. We both received scholarships, and the family grant made attending together much easier. We have enjoyed it so much we are thinking of staying in D.C. after graduation.”</p>

<p>Sondra Huggins, GW parent of the twins, said, “The idea of sending two children simultaneously was pretty scary. The family financial aid package coupled with the fixed tuition guarantee made it doable. We have been delighted with the girls’ experience and our own. The girls are extremely happy at GW-in terms of their academic experiences, social lives, internships, etc.”</p>

<p>Another element of the plan is the university’s goal to quadruple fund raising for student aid from $10 million to $40 million annually within five years.</p>

<p>The university also will reduce the cost of housing on 1,000 beds by approximately 19 percent this fall as a suggested option for incoming students demonstrating financial need. Depending on housing selections, overall costs (tuition, fees, housing, and food) for incoming students will range from a decrease of 0.6 percent from the current figure to an increase of 2.8 percent, the lowest increase in recent university history. </p>

<p>The plan also will reduce by more than 30 percent the average debt burden at the time of graduation (from $29,000 to $20,000 on average) for incoming freshmen demonstrating need. This goal will be accomplished, in part, by increasing the caps on the amount of institutional grant aid incoming students receive to up to the full amount of tuition for qualified students and by eliminating the requirement that parents fund $2,000 above the expected family contribution. </p>

<p>“We are encouraged to receive this thoughtful, reasoned, and comprehensive plan that will begin to moderate costs while maintaining value for students, and ultimately enhancing GW’s prestige and reputation,” said W. Russell Ramsey, B.B.A. '81, chairman of GW’s Board of Trustees. “Higher education is at a crossroads, and this plan sets a course in motion that will position both GW and its students for future success.”</p>

<p>Located four blocks from the White House, The George Washington University was created by an Act of Congress in 1821. Today, GW is the largest institution of higher education in the nation’s capital. The University offers comprehensive programs of undergraduate and graduate liberal arts study as well as degree programs in medicine, public health, law, engineering, education, business, and international affairs. Each year, GW enrolls a diverse population of undergraduate, graduate, and professional students from all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and more than 130 countries.</p>

<p>For more news about GW, visit the GW News Center at [Media</a> Room - The George Washington University](<a href=“http://www.gwnewscenter.org%5DMedia”>http://www.gwnewscenter.org).</p>

<p>-GW-</p>

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<p>©1996-2009 The George Washington University Office of University Relations, Washington, D.C.
Submit questions/comments</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>CUNY is still pretty cheap for on OOS student, even without getting an honors scholarship:</p>

<p>[Tuition</a> & Fees - Undergraduate and Graduate - The City University of New York](<a href=“http://web.cuny.edu/admissions/financial-aid/tuition-fees.html]Tuition”>http://web.cuny.edu/admissions/financial-aid/tuition-fees.html)</p>

<p>OOS only pays $415 per credit hour - less than half of what most privates charge.</p>

<p>“OOS only pays $415 per credit hour - less than half of what most privates charge.”</p>

<p>Rutgers’s undergrad in-state tuition appears to be $9,646 a year.</p>

<p>[Rutgers</a> | Rutgers Admissions](<a href=“http://admissions.rutgers.edu/Costs/TuitionAndFees.aspx]Rutgers”>http://admissions.rutgers.edu/Costs/TuitionAndFees.aspx)</p>

<p>Ramapo’s in-state tuition is about $9,900 a year.
<a href="http://colleges..com/colleges/tuition-financial-aid/ramapo_college_of_new_jersey/186201.aspx%5B/url%5D">http://colleges..com/colleges/tuition-financial-aid/ramapo_college_of_new_jersey/186201.aspx</a></p>

<p>While CUNY’s OOS cost seems comparable, the cost of living in NYC probably would be higher than living in NJ and commuting to a NJ college or living on campus at NJ public.</p>

<p>Has the OP’s and her D come up with a new list with some additions of safeties?</p>

<p><<plus, the=“” noncustodial=“” parent=“” financial=“” info=“” is=“” required,=“” and=“” that’s=“” not=“” possible.=“” i’m=“” think=“” going=“” to=“” have=“” stick=“” with=“” schools=“” that=“” are=“” fafsa-only.=“”>></plus,></p>

<p>Hi, I don’t post often at all but this post caught my eye. I was in the same situation this past fall when my D was applying to colleges. I also was telling my D that we would have to stick to FAFSA schools. </p>

<p>Before making that final decision I started contacting each of the schools that required the non custodial profile etc and just asked if there was any way of waiving that requirement. They all said that it could be waived if I got a letter from the school counselor,pastor or another professional attesting to the fact that I had no way of getting the non custodial parents information. </p>

<p>My D is now attending her first choice school where she applied ED. This wouldn’t be the case if I had not at least called them to see if they would waive the form. </p>

<p>So my point is to at least call the schools and give it a shot…nothing to lose.</p>

<p>Good Luck.</p>

<p>Well…despite all of the great schools that you all have posted, there really hasn’t been a lot of progress. My D is still upset with me for not allowing her to apply ED to GW. Plus, while she seemed receptive to the idea of a couple of “mommy” schools a few days ago, she now feels that it’s a waste, as she states she won’t go to them, so why apply. She tells me that it’s her education, so she should be able to apply anywhere she wants (which is what some friends of mine think, as well). She does keep changing her mind on what her requirements are. One day, any school in upstate New York is out; then a couple of days ago, she tells me she wants to apply to Syracuse! </p>

<p>Ah! I see that I didn’t mention what she’s interested in studying (I thought I did; sorry!): international relations or journalism. Those choices also limits her schools, but she still could find some schools outside of the near area. I did mention the University of South Carolina to her and UA, but she doesn’t want any schools south of Virginia. Nor west of Pennsylvania (except Chicago). Nor any schools north of Mass. That doesn’t leave much.</p>

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<p>Imo you have to call her on that. There’s such an implicit sense of entitlement in there; preparing her to be an adult in the world involves getting her past that. Keep being steady regardless of the day to day ups and downs she may be voicing.</p>

<p>I found schools in NJ, such as Seton Hall, Fairleigh Dickison, and Ramapo which has her major (Fairleigh even sent her a letter for a scholarship that she qualifies for which pays the tuition, a $28K value, for four years.) Seton Hall’s acceptance rate is 73%, Fairleigh’s is 52%, and Ramapo’s is 42%, according to the CollegeBoard. Ramapo also has a scholarship worth $18K per year, which she also qualifies for (COA for this year is around $22K). I also found that Seton has a separate school for international relations (Whitehead) that’s aligned with the UN. However, she doesn’t want to apply to any of these. She says she’s not very familiar with either Fairleigh or Ramapo, and Seton doesn’t rank in some list she found of the best international relations schools, so it’s out. </p>

<p>Also, yesterday she announced she doesn’t want to go to school in NJ (but still wants to apply to TCNJ?). I also mentioned to her the University of Richmond. While it’s a reach at a 32% acceptance rate, it’s very generous with grants (Richmond in Reach). Nope. She just seems to not want to consider anything that I suggest. I’m just getting frustrated with the mind-changing (i.e. no schools in NJ; I’m considering TCNJ) and not considering going outside of the northeast. She won’t go below Virginia because “I don’t want to.” This is teenager logic, I guess.</p>

<p>I wasn’t able to spend much time this past year doing this research on colleges with her, as I was going to school and working fulltime, so that’s why we’re dealing with this now. Maybe that’s why she’s upset with me? (She denies that.)</p>

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</p>

<p>To that I would tell her that she can go where her grades and her money will take her.</p>

<p>I haven’t read through all of the post, but I commend you on telling her what you realistically can afford to pay/borrow for her education.</p>

<p>I agree with flutemom, regarding the custodial waiver. GC write non-custodial waiver letters all of the time, so it will not be a big problem. I agree that she should not apply ED but take the opportunity to review FA packages.</p>

<p>The one thing that I find disturbing about GWU is that they require the student have a 3.0 gpa to continue receiving need based FA where other schools will award need based FA as long as a student is making satisfactory progress toward a degree and there is a financial need.</p>

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<p>This fact in and of it self could be detrimental to your child if they have a rough start, classes with a brutal curve or classes known to be weed-out courses (and these things happen even to the best students). As a parent I would want to know what happens if there is a dip in GPA. Does the student lose the funding the moment the gpa drops? Is there a grace period? How can the aid be reinstated?</p>

<p>If she wants to apply to TCNJ, at least she’ll have one in-state public. </p>

<p>BTW, U. Richmond has an application deadline of 12/15 to be considered for merit aid.</p>

<p>Bundle, I don’t think this has anything to do with you not looking at colleges with her. I think it’s more to do with the fact that she has to face making adult decisions that will affect her (and you) for 4 years at least, and she’s freaking out about it. </p>

<p>Can you give her a few days without mentioning colleges at all? That might give her a chance to calm down and think things over. After that, maybe give her a list of the colleges and scholarships you’ve found, and let her research them herself for a bit. Then talk about it with her, after she’s had a chance to absorb everything.</p>

<p>I do not think your daughter would like Seton Hall or Fairleigh. Despite what others may say. I still think your daughters stats are high enough for more selective schools especially since the income bracket of the family is relatively low. This is a kid who has not had the advantages of paying for SAT classes and all the other enrichment, that kids of the wealthier families have had, yet her scores are excellent
If you can post more info on your daughters SAT II’s and AP classes as well as her EC’s and work experiences, you might get a better picture of where she really has a chance. I would also not encourage an early decision unless the school has a policy of no loans and complete aid for a student in your income bracket. That is why I suggested the Ivy’s. I agree with Northstarmom in that she will need more than what you are telling us to be a candidate, but something tells me that you may not realize that the Ivy admission process is somewhat different than that of other schools. She needs to be a stellar student which may come through without having the over the top SAT scores.</p>

<p>I just thought I would add, that even full financial aid students must meet a summer earnings payment as well as paying for books and items needed to attend college. Travel expenses could also be costly and I would investigate those costs before apps go in. Is your daughter working and saving her money?</p>

<p>“I wasn’t able to spend much time this past year doing this research on colleges with her, as I was going to school and working fulltime, so that’s why we’re dealing with this now. Maybe that’s why she’s upset with me? (She denies that.)”</p>

<p>Don’t blame yourself. I think that your D is upset for the same reason most college-bound h.s. students become upset senior year: It’s the first time they’ve had responsibility for making adult decisions, and it’s very stressful and frightening for them.</p>

<p>“She just seems to not want to consider anything that I suggest.”</p>

<p>Many students are like this. That’s their way of trying to become grown up. When younger S couldn’t figure out anything about the type of college he wanted to attend, I suggested that he take a gap year and be an Americorps volunteer. He rejected that idea, but then didn’t manage to finish college apps because he was so conflicted about what kind of college he wanted to go to.</p>

<p>After the deadlines passed for colleges that interested him, on his own, he applied to and got an Americorps volunteer position, something that he happily did with great fulfillment. It also helped him figure out what he wanted in his college experience and what kinds of careers he likely would be interested in doing. He applied to college during his gap year, and is now a happy, high achieving college junior.</p>

<p>I don’t think he remembers that I was the one who initially suggested doing a gap year with Americorps, and I don’t bother to remind him.</p>

<p>You will reduce your own stress if you let go of trying to get your D to look at the realities about your financial situation. Certainly, give her in writing what you’re willing to contribute each year to her college education. If she then decides to apply to schools that are unrealistic, and if she ends up in April with no workable options, she can take a gap year and work or be an Americorps volunteer before going to college.</p>

<p>You are under no obligation to pay for your D’s colleges apps. Having to be responsible for finding fee waivers or the money to apply to colleges would be an important reality check for your D. </p>

<p>Some people do have to learn the hard way. If she has to take a gap year, that may be exactly what she needs to select the best college for her and to give up her magical thinking about being able to attend an unaffordable college.</p>

<p>Does she understand why ED to GWU is out, despite there being no risk, that it’s simply hopeless?</p>

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<p>Well, this is exactly the reason why you can’t make decisions based on what she’s saying - she’s not being consistent or reasonable. </p>

<p>And, stop listening to ANYONE who says that she can apply or go wherever she wants. Many of these people have NO IDEA of what they’re talking about. and…NONE of those people will be paying for her college. If they want to insist that she go to some pricey school, let them offer a blank check first. LOL Tell them to “put up or shut up.” ;)</p>

<p>Honestly…don’t let her whines and complaints get to you. Many of us have been where you are. Kids change their minds over and over again during senior year (as you’re seeing with your D). </p>

<p>My DS1 insisted that he wasn’t going to go to ANY southern schools. LOL He’s at a southern school, LOVES IT, and can’t imagine being anywhere else. My DS2 insisted that he wasn’t going to go to any school that his brother goes to. DS2 is now at the same school (it ended up being the only place he wanted to apply - kids are crazy!!!)</p>