My child refuses to consider safety schools and financial limitations

Parents Forum
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<p>The only public schools she’s mentioned, besides TCNJ and Rutgers (which she now won’t apply to) are Virginia and William & Mary. I believe this is solely based on ranking, but they are both reaches. </p>

<p>However, she’s upset that I told her that BU and NYU, for instance, will not meet her need, and NYU, especially, won’t give her a lot of institutional grants/scholarships. If the most she can get from federal grants are $5300 Pell, up to $4000 SEOG, and a $750 ACG, then where is the rest of a school’s COA going to come from, especially if the school’s COA is over $50K? All she still says is that she’ll borrow, and is mad that I won’t borrow on her behalf, such as cosigning for a private loan, or taking out a PLUS loan.</p>

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<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Your D needs to understand that a school who can’t/won’t meet 100% of need really shouldn’t be a safety school. Sure, she’ll get accepted, but how will the bills get paid? :/</p>

<p>You’re both smart to consider that business grad school will likely result in loans, however, she doesn’t have to go to a top “prestigious” undergrad to get into a good international business grad school. </p>

<p>Of course you won’t borrow or co-sign! But, again, that is the emotion of the season talking. When things are calmer, she’ll see the light. You love her too much to put her into a risky financial situation of big undergrad loans. Plus, you have to think of yourself, too. </p>

<p>Which schools will be your “mom choices” - you should have 2 or 3 mom choices since your D is picking too many schools that won’t likely meet need.</p>

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<p>do the tcnj/rutgers scholarships include NJ grants? She should get the bloustein for $1000, plus TAG/EOF money. Between that + federal money you would mostly cover the costs at TCNJ and rutgers. The NJ money is good for any college in NJ (including seton hall). She might want to look at Drew as well, as they have some extra merit money</p>

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<p>[Program</a> justification and overview — Zicklin School Of Business - Baruch College - CUNY](<a href=“http://zicklin.baruch.cuny.edu/faculty/marketing/programs/bba-in-international-business/faqs/Program-jo/]Program”>http://zicklin.baruch.cuny.edu/faculty/marketing/programs/bba-in-international-business/faqs/Program-jo/)</p>

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<p>The reality is that this may not happen. D is focused on expensive schools but her qualifications may not be quite compelling enough to get her into the wealthiest, most generous ones that meet all her high expectations. So either the expectations need to be adjusted, or else there is some potential for a train wreck here. </p>

<p>What’s the list at this point? Is it still limited to mid-sized, urban, private universities in the Northeast (+ Chicago)? Apparently there’s been a little movement (I’m trying to catch up on this long thread) but maybe not enough.</p>

<p>Key factors as I see it include: High GPA, good but not stellar SATs; low income, Dad not helping; no significant hooks (URM, recruited athlete, legacy etc.); no exceptional ECs or personal story (?). Wants selective preferably urban university in the Northeast for jouranlism/IR. </p>

<p>Problems (and mitigations):<br>

  1. Dad’s income? (if never married and he’s long gone, bundle may need to document this so schools won’t insist on seeing it)
  2. sub-2100 SATs (you can try to improve in the November tests, if it’s not too late, or seek out a couple of SAT-optional schools. )
  3. strict college choice criteria including focus on high cost-of-living urban schools (D may need to bend on a couple criteria such as “nothing North of Massachusetts”)</p>

<p>Consider adding these schools:
Middlebury (a rich “loan cap” SAT-optional school with good IR and writing programs; a real reach.)
Bowdoin (a rich no-loan, SAT-optional school; apparently very strong in political science; a reach.)
Tufts University (a no-loan school; very strong reputation for IR; slightly less selective than the above.)</p>

<p>Also consider some SAT-optional, very good but less selective Midwestern LACs that give merit scholarships in addition to need-based aid (such as Lawrence University in Appleton, WI or Knox College.)</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>I agree with the above.</p>

<p>While the OP’s stats are “good stats,” they aren’t the stats that will likely admit her to the top schools that meet 100% of need w/o loans (or small loan). Her stats are also not high enough for the few top schools, who give merit, to give her a free-ride.</p>

<p>If Bundle has no way to contact the dad (who I think has not been in D’s life), then a waiver can handle that issue (maybe someone can chime in here, but I imagine when there wasn’t a marriage, and dad was absent, waivers are more easily obtained)…</p>

<p>I agree with the above’s recommendations, because they will better meet costs without much, if any, loans. </p>

<p>Middlebury (a rich “loan cap” SAT-optional school with good IR and writing programs; a real reach.)
Bowdoin (a rich no-loan, SAT-optional school; apparently very strong in political science; a reach.)
Tufts University (a no-loan school; very strong reputation for IR; slightly less selective than the above.)</p>

<p>Also consider some SAT-optional, very good but less selective Midwestern LACs that give merit scholarships in addition to need-based aid (such as Lawrence University in Appleton, WI or Knox College.) </p>

<p>Bundle is smart to hold her ground by refusing to take on loans herself, or co-signing big loans for D. :)</p>

<p>Bundle…what is the current list and what are your “mommy choices”? :)</p>

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<p>Are loans for exorbitant amounts in relation to family income (even if earmarked for education) still that easy to get in this economic climate?</p>

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<p>Women’s colleges were made for students like this, but it seems there is little bending there either. But this student screams Smith or Mt. Holyoke to me.</p>

<p>SAT’s are normally lower at women’s colleges because women outperform men in terms of GPA, but under perform in terms of SAT.</p>

<p>I don’t think Tufts is an easier get than Bowdoin or Middlebury. Not at all, whatever their stats say. They are very “image” conscious, although a great school. And they are not as generous with money as Bowdoin or Middlebury.</p>

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<p>^Ayup, what mythmom said about women’s colleges. I’d toss in Bryn Mawr or Barnard (though maybe they’re moving in the wrong direction, selectivity-wise). </p>

<p>75th% SAT, admit rates, and USNWR ranks:</p>

<p>Barnard … 1440 M+CR / 28.5% admitted / #30 USNWR LAC
BrynMawr … 1410 / 48.8% / #25 (tie)
Smith … 1390 / 47.7% / #18
MHC …1390 / 52.6% / #25 (tie)</p>

<p>Mount Holyoke is SAT-optional. 3-way 75th% SAT is ~2090 (compared to OP’s D at 2040). Appears to award aid to all students determined to have need; claims to meet 100% of need; average need-based loan =$2,908 (not overly burdensome IMO). Princeton Review’s #13 for “Dorms Like Palaces”, #3 “Most Beautiful Campus”, #6 “Best Classroom Experience”. Not bad.</p>

<p>With Barnard you get Columbia (great for both journalism and IR ), Manhattan temptations, and Manhattan costs. </p>

<p>With each of the other three, you get consortium schools, with access to classes and other resources at some of the best LACs in the country. If it were my kid, any of these 4 would be more appealing than GW.</p>

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<p>well, I hope she has enough to pay for the colleges she’s applying to then.</p>

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<p>D got her biggest FA award from Mt. Holyoke, although it exceeded the next candidate by only about $2K a year (significant, but we were talking about big numbers.) Although I don’t remember exactly, I think that may have been because D got a $2K leadership merit award there.</p>

<p>She chose Barnard, and yes, the city costs were significant, but she did work study every year to pay all her own weekly costs, so it was all good.</p>

<p>Barnard also allowed her to stay in dorms over the summer on their dime because she kept her provost’s job only worked full-time over the summer instead of the six to eight hours she worked during the year.</p>

<p>How many young kids get to live in Manhattan for the summer on someone else’s dime?</p>

<p>She couldn’t afford to duplicate her lifestyle when she graduated and is now in Atlanta with BF where they could afford an apartment on the jobs they could get. He’s from there.</p>

<p>She had a wonderful experience at Barnard, though I’m sure she should have at Mt. Holyoke, Smith or Bryn Mawr, too.</p>

<p>Oh, no diss to Wellesley, but they may be more SAT conscious in making admit decisions. But good to consider since near Boston and in “consortium” with MIT.</p>

<p>Bryn Mawr and Barnard aren’t really in consortiums. Barnard and Columbia are virtually and seamlessly one school, and Bryn Mawr and Haverford are close, so maybe they are better choices for a young woman who isn’t drawn to women’s colleges.</p>

<p>For my D it was a plus. And I always say, “she’s very pretty and loves guys.” And the other Barnard moms say, “my daughter, too.” She wanted to make good friends with woman, longed for a BFF (always got along better with guys) and wanted to focus on her studies and career aspirations. </p>

<p>I must say, it all worked out as she planned. She lives with her boyfriend, has a BFF and several other really close women friends met at college and will start law school in September. She wanted a gap year. Barnard’s thesis process is demanding and she wanted a breather.</p>

<p>The Barnard alumnae network has even provided her with a new friend she really, really likes in Atlanta. They both graduated Barnard in '09, but didn’t know each other. The other young woman is getting a PhD at Emory, so a woman’s college is the gift that keeps on giving.</p>

<p>::steps off her soap box with a bit of an embarrassed face::</p>

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<p>I agree, the womens’ colleges would be a good financial choice for this particular student,
but from what the op has said I doubt her daughter would be interested.</p>

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<p>Information I would like to provide for newbies: Meets full need schools provided much more money than much lower ranked schools that didn’t, even though those schools were more eager to get her. They just couldn’t accord her.</p>

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<p>agreed on post #273 but many low income apps can’t comprehend that and this particular
student has an issue with the non-custodial parent on the CSS.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t consider Tufts an easier admit than Bowdoin and Middlebury, either.</p>

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<p>this student is very unlikely to get into tufts, middlebury or Bowdoin. As a very low income student should be focusing her time and limited funds on more realistic choices.</p>

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<p>If she is stubborn over where she’s willing to apply, she could find herself in a gap year, which might not be so bad, giving her a chance to gain some perspective.</p>

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<p>By “consortiums” in #269 I was not referring to Barnard, but to Smith, Mt. Holyoke, and yes, Bryn Mawr. Smith and Mt. Holyoke are in a 5-college consortium that also includes Amherst, Hampshire, and UMass. Bryn Mawr has a “bi-college” relationship with nearby Haverford; both are in the so-called “tri-college” relationship with Swarthmore; in addition, I believe these 3 have some level of exchange with UPenn.</p>

<p>Consortium arrangements allow a small or single-gender school to broaden its offerings by sharing courses and other resources among students of the participating schools.</p>

<p>And I agree, Middlebury and Bowdoin (perhaps Tufts too) are long reaches for the OP’s daughter. Mt. Holyoke is more realistic. My point is not really to push specific schools but to try to open up some options (in size, geography, etc.)</p>

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<p>tk: I understood your point, which was excellent. I didn’t mean to be disputing you in any way.</p>

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<p>mythmom, having free rent over the summer is a HUGE bonus. My son worked in NYC the past 2 summers and he desperately wanted to live there - just couldn’t afford it on an intern’s salary (he was lucky to get $3000 - some friends interned for free). But taxes and his commuting costs (bus and subway) ate a good chunk of that. He couldn’t find housing for under $3000.</p>