<p>Yes, I know. That’s why my D is now in Atlanta. As a college graduate she could not find a job in this economy that would allow her to live in even the tiniest studio. And although we live in “commuting” distance from the city, it’s a very long commute and she couldn’t find something that paid enough that covered all her commutation costs and gave her anything to live on.</p>
<p>She is counting the days until she comes back to NY. Atlanta just doesn’t to it for her.</p>
<p>I think the OP’s D has enough reaches on her list. I think she needs more suggestions for matches or safeties that will either give tons of aid or tons of merit.</p>
<p>Barnard and similar would be reaches for the OP’s D. My niece with near perfect stats (2300 SAT, 34 ACT, 4.7 GPA) and excellent ECs was rejected by Barnard.</p>
<p>^Was she in the NYC area?</p>
<p>I find it interesting that this thread has so much participation. We feel OP’s pain and concern even if our situations are different. I think OP is raising a very important dilemma that may not be addressed by suggesting cheaper alternatives for her D to apply to. </p>
<p>My S has been very reasonable about having a financial/academic safety or two in the mix of applications but we (and many other parents on CC) will face a new dilemma when the acceptances and awards start to roll in. Even for those of us lucky enough not to be constrained by financial concerns, I think thoughtful parents all struggle with the question whether a private T20 school is “worth” $50,000 per year vs the $13,000 for flagship state school or even second tier state school. If OP and the rest of us get our seniors to apply to a variety of schools including those within what we can (or want to) pay for we need to think very carefully about what we are going to say if they do get in and we honestly don’t think the price tag is worth it. What if you could swing the hefty tuition, but you don’t want to because you think it is too expensive? Am I a bad parent because I can afford to pay $50,000/year but I don’t want to pay for it since there are alternatives that are almost as good and a lot cheaper? S will need to get a lot of merit aid for my husband and I to consider paying for the T20 privates he has applied to. So yes, weird but true, I can pay the high tuition at a T-20 but even should he get into his super reach (yale) I will be hesitant to pay full freight because I am not sure it is worth it compared to the perfectly good school downstate. Am I nuts? Wouldn’t it make more sense to give him the money he saves to start a new business, put down money on a house, pay for grad school?</p>
<p>I for one don’t think you are nuts.</p>
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<p>Yes, this is a widely expressed dilemma. The reality, though, is that many middle class parents are not comparing such a wide cost spread. Flagship state school costs frequently are double your $13K. Chances are, out-of-pocket for the selective private school is less than $50K, after aid. So in many cases, a middle income family might be looking at a spread of about $15K or so per year. Ditto for an upper income family if the private school offers merit aid. If the student earns $5-10K of that difference, and a grandparent or outside scholarship kicks in another $5K, the extra cost might be worth it.</p>
<p>For a low income family, the T20 school may well be the least expensive option. The trick is getting in.</p>
<p>Exactly, finearts, that is a huge dilemma! For those people who can afford it (but aren’t wealthy enough that it doesn’t cause pain), what a decision. At my son’s high school, lots of kids going to these amazing, expensive, no merit aid liberal arts schools. We determined that for our kid, there were only a few specific schools for him that would be worth us paying that kind of money for. If they didn’t have the most amazing tech programs out there (his specific interest), not worth the 200K+ to send him to a school that was rated far lower than our local university. And he said he would be very happy going to the state school. It would have probably affected us if he felt strongly about a small LAC, but he didn’t seem to care.</p>
<p>Though after saying that, he did get accepted to one of the few schools out there that we thought was worth the cost, so now we are suffering with the bill. And he’s talking about changing his major. But he is very, very happy and there has been no doubt that it was the right decision and environment. For him specifically, it wouldn’t have been worth all the extra $$ just to send him to an expensive school with the exclusive name. I think you just have to weigh the choices…if you’re going to spend so much money without any aid, and you aren’t incredibly wealthy, is it the absolute perfect situation for your kid? If it’s just so-so, it’s probably not a good investment.</p>
<p>FAMM, I don’t know about your son’s prospects and what he’s looking to do as a career. But I’ve had to recalibrate upwards my sense of how much that T20 school may be worth in the job market. D’s outfit hires from both privates and publics, the latter including U/Texas and U/Wisconsin off the top of my head. But disproportionately the hires come from schools like Yale, Harvard, Swarthmore, Smith, Wellesley, William & Mary. When you consider the relative enrollments, the gap is even wider.</p>
<p>She’s been involved in the some of the hiring teams and her observation was, “We don’t have a bias for the elite schools but their grads seem to write better apps.” A point about which I think what the peer competition for four years has a lot to say about how the individual develops.</p>
<p>We did <em>not</em> have the money set aside and borrowed enough for D’s T20 LAC that it would have purchased a luxury SUV. Wouldn’t want the latter in any event and we consider the expense to be the best thing we’ve ever done outside of buying our home when we did, even if the payments are a not inconsiderable pain once the economy headed south.</p>
<p>(And D took out about $20K in her own loans in addition to some very modest need-based aid, some merit aid, and working.)</p>
<p>Mythmom, I like your soapbox…may I borrow it when mine is in the shop for repairs?</p>
<p>Currently this op and her daughter do not have a private school option due to problems with the non-custodial parent. Unless that issue is resolved it is unlikely that the student will receive sufficient aid even to borrow the difference at a private. Both mom and D will have to borrow heavily to afford the stateship flag or TCNJ. So their dilemma in May is probably going to be whether to borrow for those public school choices or whether to commute to a local state or cc.</p>
<p>Good to know I am not the only person thinking past the application season to acceptance heartburn season. </p>
<p>We are not incredibly wealthy, but we could pay the private LAC tuition. But I think even if I were rolling in wealth, it would make me pause when faced with this choice.
I should also note that his grandparents will try to leap into the breach should the golden grandchild get into Yale and cheapo parents prove to be tightfisted. Nevertheless, I do want to have my son think very, very hard about the value of the educational choices he will have in April…not what it costs, what you do with it, yada yada…</p>
<p>Ironically, it was my experience as a student at Duke (which was relatively cheap 20 years ago) that is making me quesiton the whole private vs public choice. I insisted on Duke despite a free ride to state school. Despite lots of financial aid, parental support and my 2 awful years working at Burger King, both my parents and I had zero bank balances by sophmore year. Reagan axed the pell grants that year and I took a semester off to reasses and attended UofF for a semester. Fantastic professors, $450 for 5 classes!, BUT really really dumb and unmotivated students in my general studies classes…so I got Duke to provide more financial aid. The coursework would have been as good or better at UF, but I would have had to rise above the party school environment**…but **I would have been debt free with a great education…I thus have mixed emotions from my own experience and my husband (a graduate of night school) is adamantly against outrageously expensive education so son is going to have a difficult fight unless the merit wagon train (or grandparent safe harbor) circles him in April.</p>
<p>Keil,</p>
<p>No, but they think she was rejected because the other nearby high school offers the IB program. They think Barnard prefers the “other school.” :(</p>
<p>TheDad brings up some good points for any family. There may be some career choices where it is worth it to spend the extra money, in this job market. Some that it wouldn’t be worth it to take on a ton of debt for the child or the family. Every situation is different. One article I read, right before college applications were started-was about why a parent or child would possibly borrow 50K plus a year to go to school XYZ to get a major in nutrition and with no particular job plan. Now, nothing wrong with the school, the major…but if people don’t have the money, why would they possibly put such a huge burden on themselves or their child-for a lower paying career field, when there are so many other excellent and less expensive schools out there? Certain schools for a specific career field, possibly worth it. Wealthy, doting, grandparents ready to pay? You are so lucky!</p>
<p>Sure TheDad. Who ever wants to be the only one standing on soap box. But in the interests of full disclosure, I <em>am</em> only 5’2", so no doubt need it more. I do have a rather soft voice, but I am a trained classical singer, so that is a bit of a wash.</p>
<p>fineartsmajormom: You raise the fundamental question for some of us. How much more are we willing to pay and what are we willing to sacrifice for it? </p>
<p>Such an individual choice that I don’t think we can begin to judge others at all. Or maybe even not ourselves.</p>
<p>For me, it was worth anything and everything to have my kids at a shiny, brand name school. I think probably because I always wanted it for myself and didn’t achieve that for personal, not academic reasons.</p>
<p>Is this less selfish? Probably not. But neither of mine are the type that would have done well in any situation (which I did, or okay, anyway.) One is very high strung (girl), and the other is very laid back and quiet (guy.) And each fell madly in love with one particular school and was accepted, and each was absolutely the right place for them, they they brought each child challenges. So no perfect place, but right place.</p>
<p>I think I would have considered selling a kidney to get them there, but I think it’s illegal, and it didn’t come to that.</p>
<p>I don’t think this makes me a better person. Just what I wanted in my life. It’s my life, too. They joy/inspiration/growth impacts me more than granite counters, an SUV or even the chance to retire before 70, which I won’t have.</p>
<p>My single friends lose patience with me because they think I’m a self-sacrificing martyr. I don’t feel that, but who knows? Could be true.</p>
<p>More full disclosure. I am letting her look at Vera Wang weddings. No, not engaged, but living with the perfect guy (I love him.) To be fair, my husband is a wedding photographer by profession, so we have all been quite exposed to gowns and rather obsessed.</p>
<p>Right now the front runner is green and very Midsummer Night’s Dream.</p>
<p>OTOH: I am making headway in my quest for her to consider CUNY law school over more elite schools. The savings in tuition would be $120K. That, I am not paying for. If she and BF decide to go for the astronomical debt it will their decision. I would consider paying for the $10K tuition and leaving them responsible for living expenses.</p>
<p>All I know is this…I come from a very family, and so does my H. My siblings and I went to UCs and Cal States; my H’s family went to pricey, name brand schools. </p>
<p>My sibs earn a ton more than my H’s sibs do. One of my brothers has an Emmy, 3 brothers hold over 20 patents each, etc. H’s family has done nothing spectacular and their lower earnings show it.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids: Congratulations on coming from such a fun family. It really sounds like great energy to pass down.</p>
<p>It’s all so complicated - what really gets me is the people who insist that their child did
all this for themselves. With perhaps 1/4 million dollars on the line what parent is really going to let an 18 year old make all these decisions without significant input.</p>
<p>^ Well, it happens. We would have used veto power if it had been necessary, but it wasn’t; we were totally delighted with our kids’ own choices and actions. I’d bet this is fairly common.</p>
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<p>What’s wrong with the earlier suggestion that, if the OP was never married to him and he’s been out of the picture for years, a school should accept a statement to that effect from the GC (or other responsible person)?</p>
<p>It certainly helps when they make a decision you agree with. I can’t imagine spending that kind of money if I felt it was a bad choice. So many times my kids have thought things were all their own decisions, without realizing how I manipulated the situation to ensure they made that right choice…</p>
<p>I wasn’t looking at it totally from the position of paying the whole nut yourself. If youre
low income and want to go private, it’s still going to cost the same amount but you have to find other ways to fund it. For a low income app, ie this op’s D that’s quite a challenge. The idea of doing that without significant parental input or guidance - whew. I am currently helping a very gifted low income student with her college choice process. Without my input and her desire to go to a top school and willingness to explore options it just wouldn’t be happening. She’s a junior currently exploring the Questbridge idea.</p>
<p>As for post #298, a fine idea but the op doesn’t seem to be moving in that direction. One of the biggest problems with low income families is that they just look at the price tag and blow it off. But if you have the right stats, 55 grand with aid is usually way better than 25 grand for the state flag.</p>