My D wants an expensive school, I cannot afford it!

Parents Forum
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<p>Housing - I forgot. I strongly encourage you to encourage your daughter to live on campus the first year. even if she intends to commute after that.
A number of kids in our area go to nearby colleges. Many live on campus the first year and move back home. Living on campus helps to assimilate into college life.
There are lifelong lessons to be learned as well.
That said - I know kids who have had a successful college career living at home and commuting.</p>

<p>About recommending colleges - Northstarmom is right on this. Seriously - there are so many law schools out there. and lawyers. Graduating from a "top Law school" is not every law students ambition, nor should it be. Not every law student or aspiring law student wants to be a high priced corporate attorney.
Some may want to do public service - the expense and degree from Stanford is not necessary.</p>

<p>There is nothing wrong with Temple Law school.</p>

<p>OP - perhaps your daughter wants to check out Widener U. This is an example of a private school with a generous merit scholarship program. They have a law school as well.</p>

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<p>Another thing to consider is that if she does try dorm life, she may apply as an RA, get a single and free housing or a stipend that can go a long way toward reducing costs. </p>

<p>I also just saw the lists of schools and think the PA schools listed all have lots to offer. I would certainly encourage that line of investigation rather going to school in Hartford! (and I live in CT)</p>

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<p>Another PA resident here with an encouraging anecdote.</p>

<p>Sometime during the early 2000s (can't remember exactly when), my friend's daughter was a student at an elite private university. My friend and her H were footing the bill. Then came the dotcom crash and--poof--almost every cent they had earmarked for their D's college education was gone. In fact, they lost practically all their savings because they were fully invested in the stock market. They were already mortgaged to the hilt, so they weren't able to cosign a loan with their daughter. She had to withdraw from her university after the first semester of sophomore year and move back home. She was so traumatized at having to leave a school she loved that she fell into a serious depression. It took her a year to get back on her feet.</p>

<p>At that point, the D began attending a local university part-time while working two jobs. Although her undergraduate education ended up taking several years longer than anticipated, she finally graduated last year. </p>

<p>Today she's enrolled in a well-regarded graduate program in her chosen field of study. She couldn't be happier and she has no debt. </p>

<p>Moral of the story: It IS possible to get into a great graduate program after receiving an undergraduate degree from a less than top-tier school.</p>

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<p>I was not addressing the OP situation as much as to value of education and what other students have raised on reaching for the moon. It really depends on what you want to do in life. If my kid had killed herself to get into a top tier school I would do all I could to help her because she would be the kind of person that could also pay off the loan. If my kid was the to take it easy in HS then that is a data point.</p>

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<p>It's a hard choice both for you and for her. I graduated a long time ago but I went to the "expensive" school, paid for it myself by working. I got a great education. Made my own choices on what was important and worked 32 or more hours a week. Was it difficult? Yes but that was the choice I made. I turned down a full ride at a better school to attend the one I did. In hindsite would I do some thing different. No. I met my husband. Graduated with debt but was able to pay it off. Got a good job after graduation in the field of my choice and in the geographical area that I wanted. It was my choice and even though I knew going into it that I was going to have to work very hard I survived and it made me stronger when I was finally out in the "real world". My mother was very upfront with me and let me make my own choice in the matter.</p>

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<p>My parents had never saved up for college because neither of them went/thought it was important. However, we weren't poor, as my parents made decent money. When I got into school, my mother had basically said "her money, her choice" with respect to how to spend it, which did not include college. Here in school, I am paying for everything myself, including spending tuition/room/spending money/food/clothes/etc. This sucks because, as I said, my mother is not poor. Therefore, need-based aid packages are minimal at best. Financial aid assumes the parent is willing to help.</p>

<p>I took out loans to come to my school, but I had to work myself to death at the same time, which impacted my grades in a huge way. During the school year, I was working many, many hours on the side, and during the summer, as many as 100 hours a week across three jobs (two fulltime, one parttime). </p>

<p>I won't know for sure until a few years out (perhaps this will all be worth it?), but, so far, it seems like a lot of needless effort. I had gotten into schools that offered better aid packages, but I turned them down for "better" schools. Sometimes I wonder if I should have just bitten the bullet and gone to those schools. </p>

<p>College is a very unique period in life unlike any other, and I think that you should really enjoy it. I regret many of the decisions I've made because I can't get that time or experience back. My memories of my college experience will be full of work, depression, financial worry, underperformance, and exhaustion. </p>

<p>So don't waste it worrying about money. Having financial peace of mind when it comes to college is huge. If I could do it all again, I would have chosen four years of happiness at a decent school that was paid for through aid as opposed to four years at an "elite" school that would be nothing but toil. If you, as a parent, cannot afford a dream school, you really need to discuss it up front and try to warn them of the options if they do choose to attend, as well as how much you can afford to help.</p>

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<p>after reading my post, my fault, I didn't mean to make it as harsh as it sounded. I never meant to say you should completely stop caring about your money, or trying to buy the love of your daughter, I was only saying you should fufill her desires to most of your abilities. And as for what my parents would think of my post, I am pretty sure they agree with me because I was simply reverberating what I have been taught. They teach me that an education is everything, without it, very little can be accomplished. That is why they told me to go to whatever college I want, but to make sure i would get a great education.</p>

<p>If I seemed too harsh, I am sorry I was just fired up to know your daughter, a fellow 2009'er, would miss out on going somewhere she wanted to because her parents couldn't afford it.</p>

<p>Also, now that I think of it, how do you know how much you will have to pay? I do not think the FAFSA things have come out for this year?</p>

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<p>oh and to those who critcized me about not know about money and setting an example, I am pretty sure I am one of the few kids to know the value of a dollar.</p>

<p>My parents make less than $50,000 a year, and I know this fact. I care about money, I don't waste it like many other kids. For instance, most kids probably spend close to $20-50 for a single item of clothing. The most I have ever spent on a single item is $10. I don't do this cause my parents tell me to, I do it because I(yes I figured it out on my own) care about my parents financial future. My parents moved to america with only the money they had in their pockets. My dad said he and my mom made a combined incoome of $8 in the 1990's. So please do not tell me my parents or I don't know what I am talking about. I look for bargains all the time, and I think this was an intherant trait I acquired from my mom, who can be found in the grocery isles with a bag full of coupons.</p>

<p>I was only trying to defend the child, but in the process I think I seemed like I was insulting you, so I am so sorry again.</p>

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<p>moviemania, you can plug in your current financial info on the studentaid.gov website to get a realistic idea of what the numbers will be. Student</a> Aid on the Web</p>

<p>Also, my kids do not spend $20 - $50 on each piece of clothes, and neither do I. I taught my kids at an early age that sale and clearance were the only places to look. With my daughter and her friends it's a game to see who can find the best bargains. Their friends are all cheapskates too, Yay!</p>

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<p>oh ok, again sorry in advance if I am being harsh</p>

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<p>There are 4000 colleges & Us in the US. There are many where a student will get a very good education & the OP has already stated that her child will have many options to choose among, including many well-regarded schools that are lower priced than the similarly regarded school the child originally stated an interest in. When you are trying to talk about this student's "rights," no one is saying the student can't decide to shoulder the crushing debt, just that it is good to carefully consider & weigh the options realistically and thoroughly.<br>
Crushing debt (as noted by another poster above) really impacts the student experience and there are many who do not qualify for need-based aid but still cannot afford to pay what the calculators estimate as the family's and student's share without significant sacrifices and debt.</p>

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<p>My daughter does have a college fund, but we structured it so that it is a flat amount. Whatever she does not spend on college, she gets in cash when she graduates. Boy - did that get her attention! She's now the pro at whipping out scholarship application essays, and comparing FA packages. Her GPA went way up and she started studying for standardized tests when she realized that Merit scholarships were money in her pocket. $$ is a great motivator. </p>

<p>The fund come from lots of scrimping when D was little; I gave my husband a challenge when she was born: save $20,000 each by the time she was 5. We skipped treats and vacations; we drove old dented cars, but we stashed $20,000 each ten years ago. </p>

<p>The current value of the fund is down a fair bit - no biggy. We'll borrow (at her rate) for a couple of years, and when the stock market turns around, liquidate and pay off the loans. Loans don't have to be forever. Pay off the loans as soon as the market turns.</p>

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<p>Its a myth you have to go to a top school to be successful in life and if you don't you will be scarred for life. Our society is fraught will all sorts of problems, including hyperbolic credentialism, unreasonable expectations, and a lot of spoiled kids in the process. </p>

<p>Its sad that the price tag of a college education has gotten so out of hand. Now as endowments get hit severely with the economic crisis, it will only get worse.</p>

<p>There is unfairness in life. There are some kids who come from privilege and have always had their lives paved with the money and contacts of others. And some of them get plum jobs out of college, get into Ivy League Law Schools and then get even bigger plum jobs in Government. (Some of them in the New Administration, I might add). It has always been that way. We cannot change that. </p>

<p>But the vast majority of middle income families are faced with the same daunting choices. Some will opt for the big loans and some will simply say no and send kids to state schools. Who is right? There is not one right answer to that. </p>

<p>But life in the working world is not much better and the sooner they learn the reality of life, the better off they will be. The most successful kids I know are the ones who are the most well balanced, easy going, and who are responsible for their own behavior. Kids who dont get all huffy because they didnt get into Harvard, or get snotty when they are told their parents can't afford Wellesley, etc. </p>

<p>While most parents help significantly with the cost of a college education, a good many of them (in the millions) simply don't have the money, or in some cases didnt go to college themselves. Be grateful for what you have, roll with the punches and make the best of the situation. If you go through life blaming others, holding grudges, its unhealthy and you will never learn to appreciate life and all its blessings.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>..."Community colleges are generally reserved for those who have, well, "screwed up" somewhere in their lives and have realized that the prospects of getting a good job are pretty low without some sort of post-secondary education. So now they have gone back to school to "make up" the time they lost and hopefully scrape a better job than the one they have now..."</p>

<p>WOW! How pompous.
It's nice to know that somewhere along the way I've screwed up!
I won't bore you with my story but I am starting CC this spring. I have a very good job but also realize I won't get promoted (not that I care to) without that piece of paper even though I have 8 years of experience working alongside degreed co-workers. I have been able to put my sons through private schools/colleges while working hard at my job and I made the decision once they were educated it would be my time. That was my decision and now it's my time.</p>

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<p>We have been wrestling with this same issue over time. We have always put a very high priority on education and wanted our children to go to the school that best suited each of them. We did put what money we could into college funds for them, and vowed to do what we could to let them go where ever they wanted without monetary constraints. Unfortunately, other things in life got in the way, and other needs had to take a priority. Not to mention the rise in tuition, depreciation of any investments and freeze in the real estate market. </p>

<p>After paying pretty much full freight for our first two boys, we were left in a situation where we do not qualify for financial aid other than loans, and could not afford a $50K a year education for our third son. We realized this before we underwent the college search process, and kept it well in mind, choosing schools where he was likely to get merit aid and also applying to schools nearby and state schools. When all was done, he had offers of a full ride+, state school choices, local private school chices and merit money. He is attending a private school with a sticker price of $47K. He gets $10K from the school, an additional $5K outside award, he has borrowed some money, used his personal savings, worked two jobs this summer and has been working part time at the school. We have used some of the money we have saved, taking some out of our household expenses, and borrowed through PLUS. He is hoping to get additional monies from the school for next year, will borrow a bit more if necessary and will be working more next term and throughout the summer. So the cost is coming out of our savings, his savings, our borrowing, his borrowing, our monthly paycheck, his monthly paycheck and some scholarships. It is tight. The fund that should have provided for a good third of his college cost is not covering a quarter of it. We have another son at a state school which makes it possible because his costs are pretty much covered by what we saved and his resources along with merit money. We have not had to borrow for him, nor has he had to take any loans since his cost is low. We also have two more in private schools so it's going to be a rough go for a long time more. We had hoped to sell our home about this time and downscale, using profits to pay for the younger three kids' educations. The housing market has quashed that plan.</p>

<p>All three of our boys were fine about going to lower cost alternatives. They worked hard to take on whatever they needed to go to college. Personally, I am disappointed in myself, in not being as prepared about all of this. This scenario is becoming more and more common these days also among many families. No really good answer. THere are other things in life like health, love, values, daily home life that are more important than the choice of school. It is a luxury, not a right.</p>

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<p>Momfrompa, as I posted earlier, we are scraping it together for our son to go to the school he wants. In your D's case, the question comes down to how much you can afford per year, how much you have in savings that can be allocated per year, how much you can borrow, with the same going for your D. She can apply for local scholarships and also attempt to negotiate some more money from the college. So you would be dividing that $30K net cost as of this time among loans for you and D, money from D and your savings, what you and D can earn and put towards the school, and any outside scholarships and possible increases in the merit money. That is how many of us pay the college expenses. We are also tightening expenses here like crazy. My son also knows that he will have to get two jobs this summer, and is already lining up work over the Christmas break.</p>

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<p>"She actually blurted out yesterday why didnt we have a college fund for her like most people do"</p>

<p>I asked my parents the same question when I was in high school and they laughed at me. Later I learned that "most people" don't even have enough savings for just their family should the primary earner lose their job, much less a college fund. Neither of my parents went to college -- they grew up in working-class families and communities where going to school for "a long time" was discouraged and job training and going straight to work from high school were encouraged. We're middle-class and not too bad off, but my parents certainly couldn't afford to send me to an expensive private school.</p>

<p>But I asked them early in the process how much they could afford, and they were honest and straightforward with me (not much). So I applied to schools I really liked, but that I knew were safeties for me. I ended up winning a lot of full tuition/fees/room/board scholarships at 2nd-tier LACs and a couple of third tier unis; I got into my state's excellent engineering uni (but decided that I didn't want to be an engineer), and with our state HOPe plan it would have covered tuition and fees. I ended up choosing a well-reputed 2nd-tier LAC and I loved it, and graduated and am now in one of the top programs in my field for a Ph.D (which incidentally was also my dream school to which I didn't apply in high school, because I knew we couldn't afford it!)</p>

<p>My brother and sister followed in my footsteps -- my brother got a job that will pay for his undergrad (which meant he worked for a few years, so he's 20 now) and my sister goes to one of our public unis and commutes. Both are very bright, and my sister is really enjoying her uni!</p>

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<p>There are a very high # of families living paycheck to paycheck, just one or two paychecks away from homelessness for a myriad of reasons. Blaming or asking parents why there isn't enough of a "college fund" or other assets to pay for a "dream school" is not particularly productive and just leads to bad feelings. It is useful to have honest conversations about what is available & what different choices mean on a practical basis for the student, parents and family--the sooner these discussions occur, the more helpful. We started these discussions with our S when he started HS because it appeared it was likely that he could attract merit scholarships. Since he always knew the situation, he was able to make choices that fit his needs.</p>

<p>Congrats to you, Julliet! It sounds like you & your sibs are doing very well and must be making your folks very proud of all you've accomplished.</p>

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<p>Saving for the future gets complicated as you do have to provide for quality of life in the present, even as you pay off your past obligations. We are a high income family that has saved. Just not enough and too many unforeseen events occurred that required unplanned cash. Also some of the savings have not panned out with the way the economy has gone. In our case, we had the grandmothers who are both needy in time and money. Throw in medical and health issues here at home and some expensive crises and there go some of the savings. When you have the opportunity to move and make more money, you try to find a home that is optimal for comfort, safety, raising the family in a strange environment. That takes a huge chunk out of the money. Then current education for the kids. My kids all had activities that were expensive. Music lessons, sports, drama, tutoring, private schools, etc. All of those things helped contribute to who they are, and a lot of the activities cost a lot. </p>

<p>We are more frugal with the younger ones, but even then it costs a lot. MY youngest is playing basketball and football at school which means sports fees, equipment, camps, coaches gifts, banquet, pictures. It comes out of our discretionary spending but really is not that discretionary. We are going to MIL's for Thanksgiving which means a nice hunk of change spent. My mother needs to be brought here again, which means expensive plane ticket. We have two old cars that need work, a house that needs maintenance as well as MIL's house that needs to be winterized. </p>

<p>We are currently very fortunate in that all are in good health (knock hard on wood!), but that is also a big issue. Our health insurance premiums are going up drastically next year, our real estate taxes are way high and rising, and there are some maintenance things that need to be done to this house to prevent more costly damage. Right now there is nothing in the budget for savings for college for the younger ones. We are scrambling to pay two colleges, two private schools, and expensive home. And we are fortunate to be doing that. A lot of much worse things to have to pay.</p>

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<p>"Community colleges expect less from the individual. The end result is that the work habits and self discipline gained from a community college are not enough for an individual to do well in university. Don't assume that maturity is gained through time.":</p>

<p>Wow! This is simply wrong. I teach at a community college. This year, I have two national merit commended students with strong high school GPAs in my classes. Why are they at CC? These kids know they can walk into our "public ivy" debt free from my CC. They also had family income problems that precluded a traditional experience. Outcome research in my state has indicated that CC transfer students earn higher GPAs than the students who attended a given university their entire time (this is looking at junior year GPA only so stats are valid). Many of my students come back and tell me that my classes were more challenging than the university they now attend! Yes, some CC's are duds but I would caution making such a sweeping statement. Many mid tier universities are loaded with semi-literate, unmotivated students. Additionally, the quality of instruction provided by a neophyte TA in a 100 student classroom at a university is usually vastly inferior to a, dedicated fulltime, experienced CC teacher.</p>

<p>It saddens me to see such inaccurate information appear about community colleges. If you want comparison data, I would be happy to provide it.</p>