<p>maybe it's because you are a snob? just a thought.</p>
<p>One nice feature of larger state universities is the wide variety of courses and majors available and the presence of honors programs. This allows those who are "more worthy" to live and learn right along with those who are "less worthy".</p>
<p>
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I am concerned after reading reviews that the academics there are lackluster
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MomfromPA - were these reviews on CC? If so - take them with a grain of salt. Your daughter is a B+ student. Kutztown is a great school for B+ students. In fact, I have know A students attend and really like it.</p>
<p>the better the school is, the better and the more opportunities there will be. there are better schools than RU, and that's why i'm aiming at them. not sayin that i WILL (but hope!) get into my #1 school. and not saying that i will not apply to rutgers. </p>
<p>if a person w/perfect GPAs and near perfect SATs doesn't get accepted to his/her top choice (hypothetically) and ends up at state school. i would honestly feel bad for that person, since a kid w/much lower stats can obviously get into that state school (unless it's like UVA/berkeley/etc) as well. but that's just ME. i didn't say anyone on this thread should/should not agree w/me.</p>
<p>YourName, consider reading the thread by EvilRobot who had some outstanding offers but chose the school that offered him a free ride. He had amazing opportunities at the lower ranked school and is moving into a dream career. Sometimes, those exceptional students at "lower ranked" schools are given amazing opportunities because their professors are happy to work with them and engage them in research for mutual growth. It is dangerous to make sweeping generalizations and assume that getting into the ivy will bring those better experiences you mention.</p>
<p>ppl expect to receive the same amount of "reward" when they put in the same amont of effort into making that reward happen. if it doesn't, then it doesn't. that's life. but WHY can't one have expectations?? is it wrong to naturally shoot higher? </p>
<p>if i work twice as hard as all my co-workers in the office, then i guess i should expect something more in return?</p>
<p>yes, larger universities maybe have a big variety of classes to choose from. but for me (again, i repeat, for ME), that's the ONLY good thing about them other than the fact that they'r much cheaper than most private schools.</p>
<p>of course, the money issue is big for me. so i will definitely take that into consideration. </p>
<p>i'm not discriminating against RU or any other schools like it. but if i can get into a school better, why not say yes to the school that's obviously better?...if money is not an issue.</p>
<p>ivies, generally, WILL get u better opportunities than ur local state school will. and that's why all the "top" kids apply there and want to go there. actually, that's why all of 'em TRY as hard as they do (i say this from experience b/c i SEE the difference between the 'overachievers' and the "i don't care what i get" people at my school). i know plenty of them will get quite unhappy if they end up in RU........and they're definitely NOT................."SNOBS".</p>
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<p>if a person w/perfect GPAs and near perfect SATs doesn't get accepted to his/her top choice (hypothetically) and ends up at state school.>></p>
</blockquote>
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<p>A couple of things....many students with near perfect SAT scores and perfect GPA's actually CHOOSE to go to their state universities.</p>
<p>Second...many students with near perfect SAT scores and perfect GPA's do NOT get accepted at the Ivies (where about 90% of applicants are NOT accepted).</p>
<p>And I do not agree that all of your successes are built on where you go to undergrad school. Your successes are based on YOU. </p>
<p>My kid goes to an expensive school...not an Ivy or similar...but expensive. We agreed that this was worth the cost for our family because the school offered HER all of the things on her list of college 'wants'. By the way...her second choice (and it was a very close second) was an OOS public university that is not particularly highly ranked...but she loved it. You know...she would have been fine there too.</p>
<p>Two of my kids turned down the ivy league. One didn't like it as much as other choices; the other was looking for something way different. </p>
<p>The most selective schools are sought for a number of reasons. However, they are sometimes not the best choice for a student or for a family to send a student.</p>
<p>i never said that these type of kids 1. do not ever eventually choose to go to their state schools and 2. always get into the ivies or whatever elite colleges. </p>
<p>yes it's a generalization what i said in the last post. but there IS truth in a generalization. just as stereotypes are stereotypes BECAUSE they contain a good amount of truth in them.</p>
<p>and yes, success ultimately depends on an individual. that's why i did NOT exclude rutgers. btw, i didn't say that i did not like RU. sayin that i would hate to go there is a different issue that i was trying to explain this whole time. and apparently, nobody gets why....? anyway, back to topic. success if on an individual. so u don't think where a person goes to college matters? then i guess we should all just go to our local CC's and get 2.0 GPAs in HS (no offence).</p>
<p>while a school may be "it" for one student, it may be the worst choice for another. </p>
<p>this is ME i'm talkin about here. did i ever say anyone here is to agree w/me completely on this issue? no. it's what I (sry idk how to put it in italics) want and how I (!!!!!) think. and i guess that's just too "snobby" for certain people on this board...hm</p>
<p>to sum it up, i was only talkin about the mentality of having to go to a college of lower caliber w/"high stats" when another student w/significantly lower stats can easily get into it. i'm not using myself or any other students as examples here, just to clarify.</p>
<p>yourname Ivies may give you great opportunities but they arent the only ones that do...My cousin went to LaSalle which is a small private in Philly ...He was a genious and IVY material but he chose the free ride at the private school...He went onto Med school and now is a VERY successful doctor...He went to Temple for med school by the way..So there are many possibilities without harvard yale etc...And believe me he could have gone to harvard...he chose to have no undergrad debt...I think he made a smart move..He met his wife in med school..needless to say my cousins kids can go anywhere they dont have to worry about anything with two doctors as parents...</p>
<p>"MomfromPA - were these reviews on CC? If so - take them with a grain of salt. Your daughter is a B+ student. Kutztown is a great school for B+ students. In fact, I have know A students attend and really like it."</p>
<p>Actually these reviews were on another site not on CC and they were by alleged actual students..Personally I was very impressed with the school as was my husband. The facilities (except the dorms which seemed rather run down) were exceptional...The library was great especially..I think it seemed like a great place but I like to hear comments from actual students..Schools have a way of sugar coating everything on the tours I have found from my own experience...</p>
<p>i KNOW MANY nonivies give u great opportunities. </p>
<p>it is JUST the mentality thing i'm talking about here. i wouldn't MIND going to rutgers. but i wouldn't want to. why are we making this more complicated than it is? read the original quote. and again, i don't think RU is a bad school at all. i know there are tons of school that are much better than RU and that's where i'm aiming at. the financial thing will be very important to me -- i'm not just blindly sayin that i want my dream school and nothing BUt my dream school.</p>
<p>Wow, Anxiousmom, the best you could do is go through all my posts, which I was up late at night, and go through every word for my spelling considering I typed quite a few paragraphs for a comprehensive answer, rather than actually attack the substance of my posts. Kudos to you, you should be proud.</p>
<p>yourname Ivies may give you great opportunities but they arent the only ones that do...My cousin went to LaSalle which is a small private in Philly ...He was a genious and IVY material but he chose the free ride at the private school...He went onto Med school and now is a VERY successful doctor...He went to Temple for med school by the way..So there are many possibilities without harvard yale etc...And believe me he could have gone to harvard...he chose to have no undergrad debt...I think he made a smart move..He met his wife in med school..needless to say my cousins kids can go anywhere they dont have to worry about anything with two doctors as parents...</p>
<p>I haven't read this whole thread, but this is something perhaps to relate to your daughter? Tons of people I know are after Ivy universities, thinking that future employers will be amazed. The truth is, employers do not select the applicant based on degree AT ALL, according to my father who interviews. They look at the character and achievements of the applicant. So, when given the choice between Ivy and In state public school, take the in state (full ride, chances are if you can get to Ivy League). If an employer has a choice between an Ivy League grad with a solid GPA vs an Ohio State grad with tons of extracurriculars, achievements, GPA, awards...and the same degree...the OSU grad will win 9 times out of 10 for sure.</p>
<p>Then, if you pursue graduate school, get a job and go to Harvard for your Post-graduate degree.</p>
<p>My husband works in midtown NYC, for a company whose jobs are highly prized. There are a number of kids he hires right out of school. He only has one ivy grad in his department right now. The others are from a wide variety of schools. However, the MBAs that are hired are all from top schools, I notice, though, again most do not come from prestigious undergraduate schools. </p>
<p>Though kids from the top schools do tend to get more of the jobs in certain fields, one thing I am learning, is that many of them are working them as internships with little or no pay. It isn't that easy to get a high paying job even with a name school degree. In fact, the kids who seem to be making the dollars right out of schools are those who majored in very specific fields like engineering, nursing, accounting, and they do not tend to be from the ivies. The top kids from any of the schools seem to do well.</p>
<p>I was pleasantly surprised by it. It's a very popular school with the kids from our HS since it's the closest state school, which was why my kids weren't really interested.</p>
<p>Kathiep, you would be my first choice for an author of sequel to Colleges that Change Lives. Really, more of an "Off the Beaten Track" type of book that gives narrative descriptions to schools that don't have them.</p>
<p>Millersville is also a nice school from what I have heard. Also know a number kids who went to Clarion.</p>
<p>To the OP--I was at a program last night about raising resilient kids, and lots of the advice there is relevant here. In particular:</p>
<p>You said you were worried your D would "hate" you for having to turn down her expensive dream school. Your job as a parent is to do the right thing. Your D may complain for a while, but if reality is beyond your control, after a while she will see the light. And maybe even thank you!</p>
<p>My older daughter is a junior at an expensive private university and loves it, and it's a perfect fit for her. If my younger daughter also finds an expensive, perfect college, it will be a real stretch for me financially, now that we're in the seven (?) lean years. I'm afraid I'll have little choice but to turn my retirement savings into a college fund. There are good public colleges in our state, but I don't think they would provide the growth experience that my older daughter has had. (I'm not trying to be snobbish -- I'm just floored by the quality of her university.)</p>
<p>How are others handling second-child issues of this type, now that the economy is in such a mess?</p>