My D wants an expensive school, I cannot afford it!

Parents Forum
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<p>MfP --
Try no to be so hard on yourself. You clearly sacrificed a lot to go to law school, and were hoping for a better financial return. It may still come....but maybe not right now when you need it.</p>

<p>It's possible things will improve in the market, and your finances may be looking brighter in the spring....but you can't count on it. You indicated retirement funds had been a consideration for financing school. Unless there had been a huge amount of money in that fund - beyond what you and H would have needed for a long, comfortable retiremment - it should not have been considered as available for college funding. You'll find all kinds of threads on this site, and an assortment of articles by professional financial advisors confirming this advice. </p>

<p>I hope that, in the long run, you will find that advancing your own education was worthwhile. It may not have given you the immediate boost you were expecting but...if you're going to have to work into your later years...you may still be glad you did it.</p>

<p>Don't let your daughter make you feel so guilty. She's going to say what she needs to say. It should sink in, eventually, that there are other kids in the house who will need to be educated, and you're doing the best you can under current circumstances. Many of us were not able to put aside the kind of funds we would have liked for our kids education. For most middle class families, saving enough money as our kids were growing up to come up with $160,000 - $200,000 (x 2 or 3 kids.) to fund a college education was just not within the realm of possibility.</p>

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<p>MomfromPa, don't be so hard on yourself. You did what you thought was the right thing, as we all did, and you're not the only one who is in shock over how quickly all our best laid plans turned upside down. </p>

<p>If it makes you feel any better, your daughter is being a bit selfish, but that is not unusual at that age. Last year my d was accepted into 2 great schools on the other side of the country, one was an ivy, and she dearly wanted to go. We have a college fund with what we thought was a lot of money in it, but also have another child in high school to plan for. We really talked her out of the ivy, due to finances, and now with what's happened to the stock market, we are sooooo glad we did. And she is now extremely happy at our flagship state u, and we are extremely happy that we are still able to pay for it without much debt on her part!</p>

<p>So, hang in there. You can only do what you can do.</p>

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<p>Allmusic...We visited a state school yesterday. The tuition is 6K per year. Room and board about 9K? something like that... (I find it interesting to live in a one room 2 x 4 box with another student costs so much) and is more than the tuition. I have told her the school is an hour away she does not have to live on campus and then we would have no problems paying 6 grand a year, she can live home comfortably in her own room without someone else on top of her 24/7 and she will be able to keep one or both of her part time jobs if she so desires. I lived off campus when I was in undergrad for 3 semesters. I hated having someone in my face all the time. I could not study properly and it was a difficult environment for me to be in. I told her about dorm life and she has to decide if this is something she will be able to accept. I know my D and she does not like people in her personal space. I know she will most likely HATE dorm life. I transferred and moved home bc it wasnt for me. I dont however want to tell her its not for her if she feels she needs to experience it for herself, but its an expensive experiment which knowing my daughter, I think in the end she will want out. She already wants to just live in an apartment but I told her thats not happening right now. So I have a feeling she wont be liking the dorm thing. </p>

<p>In the end the money would be better spent taking out loans for graduate school. I think I may be getting through to her I told her the situation. If we cant get the aid, she cant go to these expensive schools its just that simple. She already has been admitted to 3 state schools within 2 hours of our home and is still waiting on a couple more decisions. She has options, she just wants what she wants but as a very wise man once said "you cant always get what you want, but if you try sometime you just might find, you get what you need"</p>

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<p>You have gotten some great advice. I just wanted to chime in on one point. I have found that it is basically impossible to predict with any certainty what your daughter will get in financial aid from any particular school. You can run all the financial aid calculators you want. You can pore over the aid statistics from each school on U.S. News and World Report. You can comb through the common data sets online. Still, it's likely that your daughter's results will surprise you, even shock you. The bottom line? Get her to apply to a range of schools, yes, even the expensive private, and other privates. Also state schools, in particular your in-state public. Larger colleges and smaller ones. Some in your geographic region and possibly some outside. Make sure she has a range of selectivity. In April, see what kind of offers come in.</p>

<p>You should still tell her how much you can afford, and make it clear that the expensive private has to come up with money. But sometimes they do. Just cast a wide net, and see what you catch. These days, everyone can benefit from this strategy.</p>

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<p>To paraphrase Carl Sagan: "extraordinary situations require extraordinary measures"</p>

<p>I'm sure everybody will agree that these are extraordinary economic times. They will turn children into adults very quickly.</p>

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<p>"She actually blurted out yesterday why didnt we have a college fund for her like most people do? "</p>

<p>Sadly, many familie DID save for thier children's education and those accounts are now worth only 60% of what they were 12-14 months ago. Sadder still, most of this group have to "cash-our" now and take the loss; they cannot wait even a couple of years for the market to rebound.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
no way of knowing we would lose half of our investments that we could have used for college...

[/quote]

Another note for those who may be reading who are several years away. As the date draws near investments should move to stable things like cash. Even with the portfolio down, I know we have the next 2 years of her school in cash now in insured accounts. The rest of the portfolio can take the time needed to recover without us having to draw it down during a downturn. I know "20-20 hind sight" - but this is a cautionary note for others.</p>

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<p>We've given our kids a bottom line figure for them to shop for a college. If they want something more expensive, they will either work for the grades for a scholarship (OP: how are your D's grades??) or work for the money to fund it. It's kind of black and white from where we sit. OP- don't beat yourself up, an all expenses paid boutique college experience is not a parental obligation.</p>

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<p>mimimom her grades are good but to some on here they would be considered not good. She has an 89/100 cum (Thats how her school reports GPA so I guess thats like a 3.4ish?) She has taken several honors classes and a couple AP college level. But she is by no means like many on CC with their impressive academic records..She is an average kid...What else can I say? I will certainly contribute what I can and thats all I can do..She works and knows she should be saving but chooses to **** a lot away on unnecessary items..So I will not bear total responsibility for this. I am upset to a degree I cnt give my kids everything they want but at least I know that I have tried..I cant beat myself up over it anymore...This college stuff has become way too stressful in recent weeks...</p>

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<p>It's no secret that the price of a school has very little to do with the quality of education provided. There are really expensive schools that provide less than stellar degrees and there are very inexpensive schools that provide top-quality degrees. </p>

<p>These issues of a 'dream school' being financially out of reach can certainly be touchy subjects, but sometimes tough decisions have to be made. If this country learns anything from the current mess we're in it's that eventually you've got to pay for everything... and if you don't think hard up front about how much something will really cost in the long run then you'll quickly find yourself in a huge mess. </p>

<p>The reality is that, assuming an average interest rate of 5.75%, she'd pay about $1,000 per month for the next 15 years... meaning that this school would actually cost about $180,000 not $120,000. And I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any lending institution to give you $30k per year these days... </p>

<p>In many parts of the US, $1,000 / month is more than enough to buy a modest starter piece of property and get on the property ladder. And when you think like that the true cost in terms of what you get (in equity, tax savings,...) for 'investing' that $1,000 per month in something else vs paying off student loans quickly becomes far far more than even the $180,000 figure.</p>

<p>Person A pays $1,000 to pay off these old loans for 15 years. Person B attends a less expensive university and pays that same $1,000 per month towards their starter home. At the end of the 15 years, Person A has just broken even and is then has a real net value of their transaction of $0. Person B has just paid off their mortgage and has a real net value of their transaction of the property's value (assuming modest growth, likely somewhere around $200,000). </p>

<p>They both got great educations, both really enjoyed their four years of college... but person B's got nearly a quarter million extra in the bank because they recognized it was silly to spend $30k/year in loans to go to their 'dream' school. </p>

<p>On that point, maybe try showing that the financial decisions made about the next four years will have a huge impact on her life for several decades afterwards.</p>

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<p>rocketman08</p>

<p>Well said! I have two children in college now. An important aspect of their application process was a discussion on our goal to have them each graduate with as little debt as possible. This strongly guided the exploration of colleges and universities that would meet their education and career goals and not rob them of their future by leaving them with debilitating debt. The logic was that after graduating from college, without severe debt burden they could afford to take the best job for their long-term career development rather than having to take any job to make immediate high monthly loan payments.</p>

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<p>MomfromPA,
It sounds like you're doing a good job of being realistic with your D. It does sound like you & D have some workable options to consider, including how important living away from home will be for her college experience, even if she remains in-state.</p>

<p>I'm sorry that at this point you have crushing debt from finishing your law degree but hope that when the economy improves you will be able to earn more to help with the household budget. Pay scales for attorneys can vary widely & it is often not recognized how many uncompensated, non-billable hours we put in. In our town, teachers working 9 months make more annually than our prosecutors & the hours prosecutors put in are long and grueling.</p>

<p>Our S is talking about/considering law school too; I'm actively discouraging it & urging him to explore other options & practice engineering for a while & see what makes sense for him.</p>

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<p>HI mom We do have workable solutions and you are right a lot of lawyers especially prosecutors are VERY underpaid for what they do. I just dont want her to end up thinking she was cheated out of something I feel she can get here at home for a fraction of the cost. I went to temple U as an undergrad. i dont know much for the rep outside of the Philly area but here it has an excellent reputation. Up until last night she had not applied there nor considered it. I told her I thought it was a fine school and if she went there and commuted it would be very cost effective for all of us. She is planning to major in political science and minor in spanish. I said IF she considers this as a solution, temple has a semester in spain for those who are concentrating in spanish and by the time she is a junior, she would be able to likely participate in a program whereas she may not be at a more $$$ school.. She desperately wants to do study abroad. i think that got her a bit more hyped and is now working on her application for Temple. It may not be her dream school but the other schools in the PA state system cannot be all bad either. I have heard good things about Millersville and Bloomsburg...I cant attest to them personally but I cant imagine she would be worse off there then some out of state 4th tier private school..We are keeping all options open after extensive negotiations...I am hopeful things will turn out for the best. After all we all want the same things for our kids and thats for them to be happy. I think we can come to a happy medium</p>

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<p>Temple and Penn State are strong schools whose graduates do very well in multiple arenas!</p>

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<p>I'm happy for you that there are many good in-state options in PA. In HI, were have fewer. There is one state-wide in-state system with a flagship commuter U & another branch on another island & another branch that is trying to become a 4-year branch in a suburb, but they are underfunded and overcrowded and there is NO campus life to speak of. I'm glad you have found a way to help motivate your D--study abroad is a very attractive carrot, especially since she wants to minor in Spanish. It makes good sense to me that she will have money to do that if she spends less up front & stays closer to home.</p>

<p>My D has found life at the local community college to be an interesting education for things other than just the coursework. We are glad tha classes are very small, parking is free, and it's only a very short drive from our home. It has given her time & space to explore & more carefully consider what she wants so she can be more focused as she continues her education. Tuition & books have been under $1000/semester for her and she has met some nurturing faculty here.</p>

<p>Our kids do end up stronger & more resiliant when they have to understand what the trade-offs are, I think.</p>

<p>I have met and had contact with some physicians at Temple and been very impressed with them. They have a very good reputation in the medical community.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Our kids do end up stronger & more resiliant when they have to understand what the trade-offs are

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Repeat, repeat, repeat.</p>

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<p>I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy for the "our college savings lost 50% over the past year" posts. That is totally the parents fault. Financial management 101 is to continually decrease the percentage you have in stocks the closer you get to needing the money. Any college fund that was going to be used in the next year should have been 0% in stocks when the downturn happened. The past few months is a textbook example of why you never have money in stocks that you will need soon. Timing may bite you. </p>

<p>The same goes for retirement funds. The lack of financial literacy in the US is appalling.</p>

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<p>My daughter goes to Pitt and is very happy there. Because you're in-state, that would be an affordable option. What does she want to study? </p>

<p>Also, even though you didn't like dorm life, that's not necessarily going to be your daughter's experience. I am convinced that dorm life helps these kids mature. They learn to deal with interpersonal issues and rely on themselves. To me, it's a big part of the college experience.</p>

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<p>Agree with you Lurk and as you will see I did write that somewhere above that she would have to form her own opinions about dorm life but knowing my daughter as I do, I know she would not be happy (This is strictly my belief) being cooped up in a room with someone else on a 24/7 basis..She came home after looking at the dorm yesterday after our state school visit and said my god, my room is bigger than that dorm and there would be someone else in it..That and her continual requests to get a one bdr apartment as a freshman I think are good clues..Lets just say nobody knows our kids better then we do..I know my kid..That being said, I have not told her she shouldnt try it just be prepared for it if she does wind up doing it. She may love her roomie..or may hate her roomie..Nobody knows...</p>

<p>As for pitt I know its a great school.I do think her SAT's will be way too low for there so I havent even told her to apply there..She is waiting to hear from penn State..I know she probably wont get into UNIV Park but she should get into our local campus which is about 30 minutes drive..That of course is another option she is pondering...</p>

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<p>"The lack of financial literacy in the US is appalling."</p>

<p>That's not the only thing.</p>