My friend got into Michigan with a 22 ACT!!! Not an athlete

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
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Michigan’s enrolled middle 50% ACT scores are 28-32 while JHU’s enrolled middle 50% ACT scores are 30-34 so the difference is a bit larger than a “smidge” but at any rate, both these schools each report accepted students’ ACT ranges to be a bit higher (29-33 in Michigan’s case). Just like any other university besides Harvard, JHU and Michigan will enroll slightly weaker students on average from the larger cohort of students that they accept since a lot of the high scorers will choose higher ranked universities or other schools that offer a more attractive financial proposition.</p>

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You seem to be under the impression that the admissions philosophy at selective private schools is “random” in nature when in actuality there are clear metrics that are available to separate the brightest students from the merely above average to the academically unqualified, etc. JHU will accept the majority of students with an ACT score of 34 or higher but will reject almost any typical applicant with an ACT lower than 30.</p>

<p>The student group that enrolls at JHU with an ACT of 28 or 29 is largely composed of Under Represented Minorities, First Generation/Low Income college students, people from remote states like Montana, Lacrosse players on JHU’s perennially competitive team, a few kids from ultra-wealthy families that are in cahoots with JHU’s alumni development committee, etc.</p>

<p>A middle-class Caucasian or South Indian with a 28 on the ACT from New Jersey/California has virtually no shot of admission to Johns Hopkins. Their chances of getting into Michigan aren’t so hot either but that’s at least plausible.</p>

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Maybe your error is that you believe private schools simply pick students out of a hat? ;)</p>

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Yet hundreds of Michiganders apply to Duke annually and perhaps thousands apply to Northwestern so a lot of parents seem to disagree with your view. There are some major differences with regards to weather, campus type, residential living experience, advising, career center resources for undecided liberal arts students, class sizes in various majors, ability to double major between Engineering and LSA/create your own major, specialized academic offerings limited to one school or another like Nuclear Engineering or Religion, etc.</p>

<p>Everyone has different priorities when choosing a college.</p>

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<p>@Alexandre, I am not applying to those schools because I think they are different or offer more than Michigan does. I simply know that Umich is not a guarantee for me, or anyone really. So I am applying to as many good colleges that interest me as I can so I can at least get into ONE of them. This is not unusual.</p>

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<p>Just remember that applying to a lot of colleges with similar selectivity and not a wide stats range doesn’t mean you’re bound to get into one. We’ve seen that come back to bite people in other situations. The safety/match/reach mantra is your friend.</p>

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<p>I’ll take any chances. It’s also about luck.</p>

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<p>Can I get a link to both of those? </p>

<p>[Johns</a> Hopkins University Office of Undergraduate Admissions - Fast Facts - Hopkins by the Numbers](<a href=“http://apply.jhu.edu/facts/facts.html]Johns”>http://apply.jhu.edu/facts/facts.html)</p>

<p>Cause it says “Middle 50th percentile for admitted students in 2012*” right there not enrolled</p>

<p>Edit: Actually I did find this:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=379[/url]”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=379&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Don’t how accurate it is since I believe that site takes data from students self-reported GPA and SAT/ACT scores from collegedata account profiles.</p>

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<p>“Cause it says “Middle 50th percentile for admitted students in 2012*” right there not enrolled.”</p>

<p>Oops. Looks like goldenboy gave some bad information.</p>

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<p>Yet very few Michiganders elect to attend Duke. In the Fall of 2010, the most recent year for which U.S. Dept. of Education data are available, a grand total of 16 Michiganders enrolled as freshmen at Duke. Northwestern did quite a bit better, with 81 Michiganders. Chicago snared 31. Penn picked off 34, Cornell 32, Harvard 26, Princeton 18, Wash U 27, MIT 24, Johns Hopkins 24. These are all pretty modest numbers. Apart from Northwestern, the only elite out-of-state private university that enrolled a substantial number of Michiganders (91) was Notre Dame, which is, what, about 5 miles outside the state?</p>

<p>I think it’s been well documented that relatively few top students from Michigan leave the state for private higher education, mainly because they have such an outstanding in-state option. </p>

<p>We don’t have data on how many students from which states apply to which schools, but a rough benchmark is the number who send SAT score reports. In 2012, the top elite college recipients of SAT score reports from college-bound Michigan seniors were Harvard (669), Northwestern (588), Princeton (482), Cornell (450), and Stanford (437). (For the record, Duke was 11th with 284, after Yale, Columbia, MIT, Chicago, and Penn).</p>

<p>For states with roughly comparably-sized populations, the numbers were:
Georgia: Emory (3.582), Vanderbilt (1,685), Duke (1,391), and Harvard (927).
North Carolina: Duke (3,381), Wake Forest (2,622), Davidson (1,237), UVA (1,066), and Vanderbilt (850)
New Jersey: NYU (4,254), Cornell (3,442), Penn (3,342), Princeton (3,210), Boston College (2,783), Johns Hopkins (2,161), and Michigan (2,036).</p>

<p>Or, consider a couple of nearby Midwestern states with populations only slightly larger than Michigan’s:
Illinois (30% larger): Northwestern (1,659), Harvard (942), Chicago (927), Stanford (894), Michigan (876), Wash U (856).
**Ohio (17% larger): **Michigan (1,055), Northwestern (1,005), Cornell (721), Harvard (660), Chicago (616), Duke (616), Vanderbilt (602).</p>

<p>The comparisons aren’t perfect because some states are SAT-dominant and others (including Michigan) are ACT-dominant; and because some elite colleges require all applicants to submit SAT Subject Tests, while some will take just the ACT with writing. But we can say with confidence that at schools like Harvard and Princeton that require SAT Subject Tests even from ACT-takers, all applicants must send SAT score reports, so the number sending score reports represents an upper bound on the number of applicants from that state. (Some may send score reports but not complete their applications). </p>

<p>With those caveats, two conclusions jump out of the figures I’ve just presented: first, the market for elite higher education is far more regionally inflected than much of the discussion on CC supposes. Top students in each region generally prefer the top schools in their region. But there’s also tremendous variation in the demand for elite* private* higher education by state. For its size, Michigan produces relatively few applicants to elite private schools, and relatively few enrolled freshmen at them. Yes, it’s true, hundreds of Michiganders apply, but out of an annual statewide HS graduating class in excess of 100,000, those hundreds represent pretty trivial numbers. Why? The answer is obvious: while hundreds of Michiganders are applying to elite private colleges and universities, roughly 10,000 or so are applying to the University of Michigan, and most of those who are accepted will be quite content to go there. A recent newspaper article quoted Michigan’s Director of Admissions stating that Michigan’s yield on in-state admitted students hovers around 70%.</p>

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<p>A Chaldean?! Im a city boy from Los Angeles. Never been out of Cali so Im looking for to meeting foreign students in college.</p>

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<p>I am surprised that even Michiganders 15 leave for Duke annually. Duke has little to offer over Michigan for a resident of Michigan. It is academically equal, but in all other ways, Michigan would offer more to an In-State student. Closer to home, stronger reputation in Michigan (where I assume most will want to return to after college), better campus atmosphere, kinder and more down-to-earth students, more international students, nicer college town, better athletics, and for In-State students, all of those perks are a fraction of the cost of attending Duke. Most of those 15 either did not get into Michigan or come from lower income families and were given a more generous aid package from Duke.</p>

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<p>"@Alexandre, I am not applying to those schools because I think they are different or offer more than Michigan does. I simply know that Umich is not a guarantee for me, or anyone really. So I am applying to as many good colleges that interest me as I can so I can at least get into ONE of them. This is not unusual."</p>

<p>It is wise to do so these days. You are quite right to hedge your bets by applying to several reaches other than Michigan. It is not uncommon for top students to get rejected by Michigan these days. </p>

<p>Don’t forget to apply to a couple of good matches (Wisconsin-Madison is awesome) and a good safety. Also, make sure you submit your application to Michigan with all required documents before October 30. Keep us posted.</p>

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Alexandre, I know you are not a fan of Duke but all I ask is for you to show my alma mater some common courtesy and respect. Stating definitively that Michigan has “kinder and more down-to-earth students” and a “better campus atmosphere” is kind of silly.</p>

<p>I agree though that the cost differential between Duke or any similar elite private school and Michigan for an In-State student would have to be no more than maybe $20,000 over 4 years to seriously consider the private option if you like it more. Michigan is that good.</p>

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<p>I have a “friend” here who’s from Michigan, white, and got in with a 21 on his ACT. He’s in the Art School… so obviously different standards. But it’s all relative/kind of random.</p>

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<p>You can look through the threads of every Havard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, etc thread on CC. And you will see at least one person who got in with a sub 30 ACT or sub 2000 SAT score in any given year for all of those universities.</p>