I did the same thing, I developed the first list. Just don’t be surprised if she completely changes the list by the time she applies as she will have figured out what she wants by then. (Don’t get too attached to your list). I do agree that as a parent, being their “administrator” can be really helpful. Let them drive the process and decisions, but help keep track of spreadsheets for comparison, dates, scheduling, etc. It can become overwhelming very quickly. They have enough to worry about with studying for AP exams, keeping up their grades and EC’s. Plus they should be able to have some time to bask in the glory of being a senior!
Here’s the thing about tippy top schools - it doesn’t matter how wonderful your kid is, they are a reach for everyone. There are too many applications and not enough spots. I think it’s really important to develop a well balanced list of colleges including strong matches and safeties that she would be perfectly happy attending. She should be able to get into a top 100 school and really, they are all excellent.
Also, these kids are under so much pressure as it is and I have no idea what you are thinking of course, but since you mentioned she’s shown no interest thus far - is it your desire or her desire to get into a “tippy top”? And why? If yours only, that may be too much pressure on her. Some kids might prefer to be a big fish in a small pond and you may not get that feeling at an IVY (for example). Is she the one expressing interest in pursuing a career in engineering? If so, that’s a great place to start with a list.
A high school principal told me she had seniors every year that “didn’t finish” their apps because the idea of college was terrifying.
I agree that making a trip to visit a range of possible schools might help. Taking a friend could help make it more appealing to her. If it’s just the 2 of you, though, she might open up to you on the trip.
Fwiw, DS let me pick the schools we visited spring break of junior year. He picked the geography and size of school. He gave minimal feedback during the trip. By fall of senior year, he was very engaged in the process.
I agree that a private CC - one she clicks with - could help. Sometimes working this through with someone who is not a parent is easier.
It’s not disinterest in college that hurts kids with top stats, it’s the lack of the “something more”. My CS kid didn’t care about looking at colleges partly because what he did in his spare time was much more interesting to him. This included everything from being on an award winning Science Oympiad team, getting an award from a Gaming magazine for a mod to an online game, doing Open Courseware stuff from the MIT website, volunteering for a med school professor to create a program to analyze proteins, working for a computer company on websites and data bases for well-known magazines and publishers, including an important project for the World Health Organization. He wrote one essay that he used for all his schools. It was a “pretty good for an engineer” essay. Had some funny lines, but mostly was a “I’m a computer nerd, take me or leave me” message. He even told his Harvard interviewer that Harvard was not his first choice. (He got in anyway.) My point is top colleges didn’t want him because he wanted them. They wanted him because of his proven track record in pursuing his interests and teaching himself what he wanted to learn. (He got lots for rejections too BTW, because that’s the reality when you are applying to schools with very low acceptance rates.)
@fishnlines29 “She should be able to get into a top 100 school and really, they are all excellent.”
@carbmom If she is focused on getting into a top school, with her stats, and without knowing anything about her ECs or essays, I don’t think she could possibly fall further than top 30. The top 15 is where it gets really dicey. Inside the top 30 and more strongly inside the top 15, colleges begin taking a more serious look for that “something more” that @mathmom mentions.
College fair
I went to my first college fair with my daughter and high hopes of learning more about the colleges where she had an interest. It was not what I had imagined.
First, most booths are staffed by volunteer. If you want to learn about engineering and that volunteer was a humanities major, they may not know the answers to your questions.
Second, the focus was on providing brochures and a very base level of information to the least knowledgeable students and parents. What state is it in? Do you have an engineering school? How big is it?
Third, there were huge lines for any high name recognition school. The longest lines were for Harvard and the big name sports schools.
We changed our strategy and spoke with some of the excellent schools with lesser brand recognition like Case Western, Colgate, etc. That made it worthwhile, but it was not what we planned.
The experience at your school may be different, but don’t get your hopes too high for the career fair.
Most kids don’t search the entire country for a college Plenty of high GPA/high test score kids go to their flagship university. Plenty of smart kids do two years locally and then transfer. Plenty of parents have kept immature kids at home or very close by for awhile. Lots of smart kids work a year or two before they are “ready for college.” Before launching on a “nation-wide” search for the perfect college which of course can be “fun” for the parents - we all started here for a reason, right? - take her on a few nearby trips to just get the small/big question out of the way, Then tackle the rural or not rural. Let her lead, you can fill in behind her with suggestions as much as she’s willing to bite off. If her friends are excited about the college/career fair that might get her more engaged, too. You just don’t know. My sib was socially immature and never engaged on the college thing so our parents kept my sib at home for 2 years, got some basics under the belt at a local college and ended up transferring and graduating from UofM in engineering so all kids lock and load at different times…my sib was a sal with a super high GPA which has nothing to do with maturity nor with future success. Me, I couldn’t wait to get away…as far, far away as possible and had my list in my head junior year of high school. Of my kids, one knew where he was going, one took alittle bit of time to figure it out and the third help out to the very last minute keeping everything very close to chest. There is no one path. Not all kids fit a particular mold.
Also, for engineering, it doesn’t really matter all that much where you go…the large engineering schools will have higher recruiting efforts and better internship opportunities, but after that you just need an accredited program. And lots and lots and lots of kids leave high school thinking “engineering” and wash out for all kinds of reasons by sophomore year so keep that in mind and don’t get too hung up on “must have engineering” unless your D is one of those people that locks and loads and never changes her mind.
Another thing to keep in mind - colleges LOVE female engineers. There aren’t as many of them as male engineers so it will increase her chances for admittance.
Lots of smart and otherwise motivated kids find this process daunting. I would set the wheels in motion by going on a trip to several colleges–try to choose different setting–ie. urban, suburban, large/ small campus, etc. Attend a few info sessions and try to get some feedback. Then sit with her and try to make a list that works for you financially and seems to have reasonable matches and safeties. I would leave the reaches out of the mix at first and only have them if she expresses interest.
It would be best if you can visit when schools are in session this spring, but personally I find even summer visits helpful. I would also explain to D that a lot of the better schools like to interview students, so perhaps these visits can be tied to interview at a few safeties (start there to get her feet wet.)
I am going to guess that a lot of her friends are not talking about colleges yet. With my D’s it was a topic that was barely broached even senior year, although many were vying for top schools.
Does your school have naviance? If so, make sure you activate the account and research schools through that.
I would not expect college fairs to be particularly motivating. Occasionally admissions people attend, but more than likely it will be alumni of the school. Mostly it will be overwhelming and a place to gather brochures.
Feel grateful that she has narrowed down the field to engineering and has great stats. It can be even worse with a totally undecided kid who won’t have as many academic options.
And really, as curt as your D’s remarks were, she really does give you some guidelines there. Figure that as a starting point she wants a school 3 to 5 hours away with strong academics (and a strong engineering program) and size-wise she wants more than x number of students (with x being the size of her HS). That leads me to believe that she is not necessarily looking for a huge school or a tiny campus.
So at least that is something to work with. Good luck!
If you’re going to do some of the initial legwork, see if she can give you guidance by going through a Fiske guide and noting which ones look interesting. You may notice the pattern. While I planned a week of tours for spring break, I had determined that small and non urban was a strong theme in DS interests. And outside the region where we live!
@carbmom, If by tippy top schools you mean HYPSM, then having 36 ACT and 4.0 GPA is a must but not sufficient. These schools look for students with impeccable academic records PLUS something extraordinary that they can contribute to the schools, be it athletic achievements, leaderships, community services, and other talents. If your DD’s disinterest in the whole college process seeps into the extracurricular activities that she does, then yes, you should be concerned.
S has also been happy to sit back and let me do almost all the college research for him. He’s absolutely excited to go to college, I think he just isn’t very picky about which one. He has a few requirements (e.g. no large cities like NYC or Philadelphia, not overly conservative, no overt religious element, preferably not too much rah-rah sports emphasis) and he’s sure about his major. He visited Rice and Texas A&M freshman year and disliked both for different reasons. Beyond that he’s enjoyed every visit I’ve arranged and plans to apply to 4-5 schools, all of which I researched for him. He’s been so busy with school and his activities that he really appreciates my willingness to research colleges for him, and of course he knows the final choice is his. Since he has a decent list of schools already and it includes an excellent safety that he loves, a few months ago I told him that I’d happily arrange college visits for any more schools that interest him but that I’m done driving the process. I meant it kindly and that’s how he took it; I thought he was getting tired of looking at colleges and I was right. He was grateful for my previous research and is now grateful to feel no pressure about making a school list since he’s got a good one. But at the same time he knows if he suddenly gets interested in more colleges I will definitely help him explore those interests.
We had a nervous, unexcited junior. We took baby steps and visited schools nearby as representative of a type of school, not necessarily because we expected her to apply to those schools. She was quickly able to determine “no small schools”, and that helped.
My DD was quite happy to let me do the college searching but also quite happy to go to college. Don’t assume that lack of interest in the process= lack of interest in college.
Also don’t think she will get so much out of the college fair except for the fact she will be starting the process and seeing peers do the same thing.
I’m a bit concerned that mom is having to drive the bus on this one. Going to college is a privilege - if she’s not that interested, then maybe she needs to spend a year working to see that maybe there is value in getting a higher education. I do think that visiting a few local colleges of various sizes would help make it a bit more tangible. D was sort of stuck in 1st gear the beginning of her junior year as well until we did that. Then it became “real” and she got more involved in the process.
To be successful in a top-notch school, a kid needs to be smart. More importantly, a kid needs to be motivated. I’ll take the willingness to work and grind over natural smarts and indifference any day.
My daughter didn’t want to talk about college during Junior year, which totally surprised me. She had great stats and was a very motivated kid, and I thought we would be off to Boston to visit colleges during spring break. Nope, that is not how it went. No way was she going to Boston.
During her junior year, we visited a few colleges in our state (CA): 2 big state schools, 1 mid size university. The big state schools were “This would be fine.” I left the FISKE guide and a few other similar books on the coffee table for “anybody” to flip through. I hired a college counselor over the summer to help with the college list (in my mind expand the list outside of CA) and maybe get the some essays done - not helpful. (Counselor was not a good fit.)
By fall of senior year, she was becoming much more engaged and started to take ownership of the process. She was better able to articulate what she wanted. (1. Research university, 2. Cheap, 3. Sunshine) We did another round of college visits during her fall break Senior year.
Now it is spring of senior year, she is headed to admitted student days in the next few weeks. She is totally engaged and being very thoughtful about the final decision. What a difference a year makes!
I think for some kids, junior year is too early for them to be thinking of leaving, but I think the reality is that someone needs to be on it or the student may miss out on some good opportunities. Fall deadlines do come up pretty quickly, and understanding ED (and EA and SCEA and EDII…) is important - and if it is an advantage at which school. Knowing scholarship deadlines is important. I learned about the CCS program at UCSB here on CC, which is on the final list for my d1. I think some kids do it all on their own, but for my d1, I was happy that I started the research. Once senior year started, she took it over, but I was glad that I could provide her direction with what I had learned CC. CC has been very helpful.
@Undercrackers Sorry, but I think this student is both bright and motivated. She has taken 8 AP’s, a 4.0 gpa and great test scores. But she is also a teen and teens need our support and guidance sometimes. As a matter of fact so do young adults.
Yes college is a privilege, but it seems she is working hard towards that goal–she is just a little overwhelmed by what that goal is and is obviously putting her effort into the day to day life of being a good student, rather than seeing the big picture.
My D is 27 and when she expressed that she wanted to get her full time MBA, I was the one who ended up researching scholarships. She was working full-time, preparing for the gre and gmat, and taking accounting and stats to help her get in. I was the one with more time and my effort paid off. She ended up with full tuition scholarships through special programs at both NYU and Indiana. She accepted at NYU and the scholarship is worth $150,000. Believe me, she was extremely grateful that I found a way for her to attend for free and thanked me profusely.
I don’t think that parenting or advising ends when a child turns 18. I know students in ivies who missed deadlines for important internship opportunities and job fairs because they were focused more on the now (studying) and less on the future. I also know parents who guided the process from the sidelines and reminded the students to start applying early, read their emails from their career center and these students landed great internships, and ultimately great job offers.
First, for doG’s sake be relieved that your D hasn’t fallen into the whole “dream school” thing, and purge the term from your vocabulary!
Secondly, with a kid like this I would NOT waste time and energy visiting random schools because they are examples of size and location and so forth. In my experience every school is different, and while your kid might reject rural school A, for example, she would not necessarily reject rural schools B through G. Only visit places that she would seriously consider and you could afford. I’m willing to bet that she is going to have limited tolerance for visiting. Don’t use it up.
I’d start by making a preliminary list of suitable schools and running the NPCs. Be prepared to drop or add places.
With a kid like yours, her stats are going to make her a theoretical match at places that have very low acceptance rates, so low that the match turns into a reach. You’ll have to put particular effort into finding a couple of good safeties that you can afford. Depending on where you live, your state flagship is an obvious place to begin. A lot will depend on whether you need FA, and if so how much. That’s why I would do the NPCs before even mentioning a school to her.
BTW, college fairs are fairly useless in my experience, especially if you are looking at highly selective schools. There are some travelling groups that are worthwhile, though.
^^ haha you are so right that I may be lucky D hasn’t developed a “dream school”. I will never utter that term again.
OP reporting back here again after attending the college fair at D’s school. Thanks to all those who warned me not to have high expectations for the event. It really was unimpressive. We only spent about 20 minutes there, picked up a handful of pamphlets, and left.
After reading through all of your comments (so grateful that everyone is so generous in sharing their experiences), I’m interpreting her lack of desire to participate in the college research as follows:
she really may not be that picky, and she has confidence in me to run the initial screenings and research.
she prioritizes things differently than me. I mean of course she does. She is 16 and I am... forget it.
seeing her interacting with her friends at the college fair this evening, seems many of her classmates are just about as unenthusiastic as she is. She attends a competitive school that sends about 10% graduates to top 20 colleges. So maybe that's just how kids swing it these days. I don't like it but it is what it is.
I also realized maybe she did give me some input regarding colleges. She eliminated a super elite school quite early on because many years ago when she was attending a summer program there (she might be in 6th grade then) she saw a few times lively cockroaches in the girls bathroom, including one kicking in the toilet bowl. She declared “that totally ruined it for me”. Isn’t there a thread on “weirdest reason a kid won’t apply to a certain school”? Maybe I should add this story there…
In the mean time, I shall continue to drive the process of researching schools, take her to visit schools I feel would fit her, and hope she’ll get onboard sometime soon.
@carbmom,
She might get more interested once her friend group starts talking about it a lot.
It also might be that she is cocky with her high stats and she thinks that she can sail in so she is not worried. I have no idea if she will be able to sail in, but I would mention that Engineering is very competitive, and her fellow applicants will likely have similar stats to hers.
Some kids will look ahead into the future because they are natural planners or because they want to avoid the unknown. Others are more mellow and are fine with taking things day by day. Either type can be very successful in college and later life. When it comes to the college application process, it is very important to know deadlines and campus visit dates and come up with a timeline early in the process. Inevitably, the school calendar in your daughter’s senior year will create some conflicts so it is good to be prepared. I think it is more logical for the parents to be the overseer of this process than to expect or demand the child handle it. Your child will be going away for four years living on her own in a new environment. She will have plenty of opportunities to learn how to make decisions and take full responsibility and deal with the consequences. It is too risky to just be totally hands off at this stage, unless your daughter is expected to pay for college, which I don’t think is the case here. I would be concerned with you doing too much of the initial research and planning only if your daughter had told you she wanted to live at home and commute to a nearby school for other than financial reasons.
The negative cues you get from your daughter are just as good, if not better, than positive cues. Use them to help you to eliminate schools that have something in common. For example, the negative experience with the cockroaches, that could be interpreted as an aversion to older schools and older dorms. Alternatively, there may be a newer dorm building available at an older school so try to find out what the dorm selection process is. Some schools are first come first served by the deposit date while others are totally random. The best dorms at some schools may be reserved for students selected for the Honors Program or some type of themed housing group. This might sound like a silly criteria but finding the right environment where she would be comfortable for four years would really let her focus on the academics. With her stats, she should be able to handle the curriculum at any school she gets into. And since the OP did not ask about financial issues, you may in a position to apply wherever your daughter wanted to and to wait until after she has been accpted to figure out which is the best place for her.
Here are some other non-academic factors to consider:
Food - Is the quality and variety of food important to her? Eat at the dining halls when you visit. This is also a good opportunity to observe the social dymanics between students. Are there large tables full of students or mostly individuals sitting alone?
Distance from home - Is she likely to get homesick? (This is not a question of whether you would miss her and want to keep her closer to home) Would she enjoy the opportunity to be more independant by going away to a school that is out of commuting range? Of course I don’t know where you live and what options you have near you but certainly this could be an important factor.
Clubs - Are there lots of club available for her to try new things at and to become more engaged with the school and other students?
Because of your daughter’s high stats, narrowing the field down based on academics may not get you anywhere. Looking for subtle hint from your daughter in these other area may be a more low key way to get the momentum going.