My Personal Problems with Weatherhead/Advice for Future Finance/Econ Students

<p>I was talking with a couple seniors about how the Business School needs to be improved. First of all, let me say that students have a better idea of how to fix things within the university than the current administration. Anyways, a lot of the frustration came from advising and the general student body of Weatherhead.</p>

<p>For some perspective, I'm a sophomore economics major. I'm interested in finance and economics, and I'm pretty good at math. I decided not to major in Finance, which is a concentration under Management, because I think the Business core absolutely blows. There are a lot of classes that I see as pointless. The management core, if you are unfamiliar, is basically a wide breath of courses in various disciplines. I see the idea behind the core, but I think it is inherently flawed. </p>

<p>The problem is that the different undergraduate divisions are not strong, and therefore very few think to pursue a concentration in operations research or information systems. I think people are turned off to those fields just by the courses taught in the management core. Most students major in Accounting, Finance, or Marketing. </p>

<p>There are two main problems with the students body. One of the other biggest problems is that half the students are "engineering rejects." Engineering is obviously one of Case's draws, but a good number of people drop out. These people switch to business, and some of them just lack interest in the material. The other problem is that many business majors don't strike me as intelligent. It feels like the Weatherhead caters to these people with classes such as MATH 125 (Calc I) and 126 (Calc II) and STAT 207, lighter versions of the class specifically for business students. I have heard many people complain about just these classes, and it's just frustrating considering fields like Finance and Economics actually require Math.</p>

<p>One of my other complaints is freshmen advising. I'm not going to name names, but I feel like I wasn't adequately informed about classes when I signed up first semester. I had credit for both Principle Econ courses, and I had Stat Credit. I got into some classes that I was not prepared for. As a freshmen, it's important to know what you're getting into. I suggest you take 100 level classes your first semester (unless you're in a language) to learn more about the school and yourself.</p>

<p>The other problem was that I was leaning towards taking the four course math sequence ("the engineering sequence," it's really just regular calc). However, the advisor told me I should take Math 125 instead (that's what most business majors take). Although I feel Math 121 (Calc I) would have been harder, I regret taking it because the fields that I am interested in require Math. </p>

<p>Personally, I think Weatherhead+the Econ Department should re-evaluate it's program. I think by suggesting students take math especially if they require it for Finance and Econ majors, it can really help the reputation of the school in that it would weed out the students who can't handle it and it would better prepare the students. Furthermore, I think it would help recruiting. Case's career office is not that great for recruiting. Cleveland isn't a bad business city, Case can do more. It can also attract more national recruiters.</p>

<p>So here are some suggestions, but you really have to evaluate yourself before you take these to heart:
-Take the four course math sequence if you're going into finance or economics. I know everyone is still excited and wants to go into Investment Banking, but give yourself some outs or other options. I think a solid math background can get you into Hedge Funds and other Financial Sectors that require more of a quantitative background. If you're going into economics, math is important. A lot of grad programs require a math background and it will better prepare you for your classes which will be mostly application based.
-Once you arrive at Case, get to know upperclassmen. They can especially be helpful in telling you which classes to take, and when to take them. Don't feel pressured into finishing all your requirements right away. While you should work towards it, you have to make sure you're prepared.
-Don't be discouraged about Case from what I have to say. Although I do have some insight as a current student, I certainly have a bias, and it is up to you to find out for yourself. </p>

<p>I'm not trying to deter you from going to Case. I'm trying to prepare you in such a fashion that you won't regret the classes you take because of the way the program is set up.</p>

<p>Additionally, I would like to add that the university has this "one university" policy, where it's easy to transfer from one major to another. I think the Math sequences are actually part of what divides the school. We have this SAGES program that is supposed to cross borders of academic interests, but the math program is another place to do this. Honestly, 90% of my friends are probably business or arts and sciences majors. My engineering friends are from my fraternity and from my living arrangement freshmen year.</p>

<p>This has gotten like 109 views so far, so I would appreciate love to hear any questions anyone has. </p>

<p>Here are the majors I would do:
ECON 102-Microeconomics
ECON 103-Macroeconomics
ECON 307-Intermediate Macro (Math)
ECON 309-Intermediate Micro (Math)
ECON 326-Econometrics
STAT 243-Statistics and Application I
STAT 244-Statistics and Application II
MATH 121-Calculus I
MATH 122-Calculus II
MATH 223-Multivariable Calculus
MATH 234-Differential Equations
MATH 201-Linear Algebra
ECON 341-Money and Banking
ECON?
ECON?
ECON?
ECON?
Science (Physics, Chemistry, or Biology)</p>

<p>And for Finance...This is more like what I'd do. If this was an actual major, I would think that recruiters would be all over Case.
ECON 104-Microeconomics
ECON 105-Macroeconomics
ECON 307-Intermediate Macro (Math)
ECON 309-Intermediate Micro (Math)
ECON 326-Econometrics
STAT 243-Statistics and Application I
STAT 244-Statistics and Application II
MATH 121-Calculus I
MATH 122-Calculus II
MATH 223-Multivariable Calculus
MATH 234-Differential Equations
MATH 201-Linear Algebra
BAFI 355-Corporate Finance
BAFI 356-Investments
BAFI 357-Financial Modeling and Analysis
BAFI?
BAFI?
BAFI?
BAFI?
Science (Physics, Chemistry, or Biology)
Science (Physics, Chemistry, or Biology)
ACCT 101-Intro to Financial Accounting
ACCT 202-Intro to Managerial Accounting</p>

<p>Essentially both are econ with a lot of math. One has Finance focus. I guess it would only be considered a minor right now. Also Case has a MS in Finance that one of the professor's call his baby. I don't know how the program is. It's still in it's infancy. Hopefully it'll improve the undergraduate program.
Science (Physics, Chemistry, or Biology)</p>

<p>whoops I included Money and Banking on the Econ track side by accident...i was just seeing what classes I had done already.</p>

<p>I certainly understand some of your frustrations and your feeling that the undergraduates understand what could improve the curriculum many times better than the administration. As a senior, I've gotten to know many people (both administration and students) on various university curriculum committees. I know that WSOM initiated the concentrations in response to employers demands and feedback from students that have graduated. I also know that they are constantly looking for ways to strengthen the program and make students more employable. This is true across the board for all majors at the university - curriculum is not something that is static, and sometimes when changes aren't obvious there are problems with information dissemination or big changes are in the works. </p>

<p>Taking the time to talk to your academic adviser is very important. Ask if any changes have occurred over the course of the past semester, or ask if you could substitute a class to better fit your interests. If you don't ask, the professors will never know that you are unhappy with the curriculum. Consider documenting your frustrations in a very professional manner (on paper) and bringing that with you to meet with your adviser. If you know of other students who feel similarly to you, ask them to sign your statement as well. Do not approach your meeting as a battle! Simply state your opinion, answer the questions that they ask of you, request that they take your written statement, and suggest that they share your concerns with their colleagues. Going in and talking to them in person shows maturity and is more likely to get respect. In one recent curriculum committee meeting, a large faction of faculty members were trying to change a curriculum requirement based on student feedback, but they were stopped dead when they were asked to show proof of the numbers of students that felt that way. Many professors only hear the grumblings, but they are rarely productive.</p>

<p>I wonder if some of your problems were initiated by your first semester academic adviser given to you through SAGES (specifically the math track that you were placed in) - do you think this could have affected you?</p>

<p>No, my first meeting (scheduling for my first classes) was with the department head of my department. Honestly, I should have been more aware of the classes I was signing up for because I didn't do much of the summer preparation. I didn't know that we were able to look at scheduling and everything. Either way, I still don't see the point of the 125-126 sequence. Also, I have to agree though, my first semester SAGES adviser really knew nothing. I still feel like while my adviser gives me insight, I am more informed on the classes I want to take and possible classes I might be interested in than her.</p>

<p>I'm actually meeting with a dean next week, but for a different reason.</p>

<p><strong>SO UPDATE</strong></p>

<p>I just talked to a finance professor who suggested that I take the next step and talk to the higher ups in Weatherhead. It looks like my major is actually going to happen. I basically looked at other schools to come up with a sweet curriculum, so now I have to meet with the undergraduate advisers. He was worried that my major would be too quantitative-based an miss some financial theory, but after looking at it, he thought it looked good. I will update this again after I meet with the higher ups. Here's the planned curriculum so far though:</p>

<p>ACCT
101
202
300</p>

<p>BAFI
355
356
357
359
403
(Plus some electives)</p>

<p>ECON
102
103
307
309
326</p>

<p>MATH
121
122
223
234
380
381</p>

<p>Possibly ENGR
131</p>

<p>Thats great that they're allowing you to make your own major. I'm glad to hear that they are customizing it to fit your needs.</p>

<p>No. It's not approved yet. I talked to the one of the Finance professors today. Case is actually extremely difficult about getting a customized major done. However, I think a lot of might be because the proposed curricula by most students isn't really thought out and for those trying to take short cuts. I think my proposal is a lot more legitimate considering I have done research and combined the curricula of multiple schools.</p>