<p>Mom2K, completely agree on the “speaking up” part.</p>
<p>Then you just have to hope for the best. My kids take a lot of advice, and I really like the way they live their life and the choices they make, but sometimes they get some idea in their head…</p>
<p>I’m sure you are familiar.</p>
<p>PHD programs are very dependent on having a mentor or other interested person in the field that can advocate for you, particularly if you do not have top GRE scores and grades in the subject. I’ve known scads of folks lacking in scores and/or grades, still getting some prestigious spots in top programs. Not so, in my experience, with the professional schools. They are very numbers driven, and, yes, lower GPAs can be an issue when applying to such programs. And some jobs too.</p>
<p>Med school is quite different from grad school in mathematics, in terms of the evaluation criteria. I think the OP’s son is doing fine. He just needs to be certain that he “gets” the part of the math/logic courses that he apparently didn’t get by exam time.</p>
<p>Math is a field where one’s ability to solve problems can take gigantic leaps when one takes hard courses. Following the conservative, GPA-maximizing route is not necessarily the best option for someone who is interested in a Ph.D. program in math. I think the OP’s son should talk with an academic adviser about course selection for the coming years, but I don’t see a real cause for concern here.</p>
<p>OP ~ I would give him a copy of what you wrote here. You’ve done a good job expressing your concerns. Then, no more worries, ok? His life. He is an adult. It is one of the joys of them being adults. There will be many things we could fill our heads with to worry ~ their future wives, money, children. Practice now “tuning-out” the worry. Disengage. He will face and deal with whatever the future brings.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Great understatement. Following that route is a good way to get your PhD app tossed because the faculty reading it are likely to interpret that as a sign the applicant is “not serious” and has misplaced priorities.*</p>
<ul>
<li>Overemphasis on GPA over taking the most rigorous courses, developing relationships with Profs in the field, and showing serious interest and commitment to the field through undergrad research or through coursework and office hours conversations. In fact, following the GPA-maximizing route may cause him to look like such a weak candidate compared to other applicants that the weaker curriculum taken alone may be enough to eliminate him/her from further consideration or if not, subject him to taking a lot of “remedial” undergrad courses to help him “catch up” which further extends the time spent in grad program.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>That increases the likelihood he may not finish due to funding/residency time caps…especially ones like Princeton where PhD funding’s usually capped at 5 years after which some departments may kick you out and others will allow you to stay on provided you self-fund. A friend’s father ended up getting kicked out several decades ago for this reason and a math Professor I befriended one summer while at Harvard summer school mentioned how he ended up serving as a busboy in a hotel for the last 4.5 years of his stay at Princeton because of that 5 year limit. Fortunately, that math Professor did graduate with a Princeton PhD and when I met him, had been teaching in the math department of a 4-year college for 10+ years.</p>
<p>I know posters are answering the general question posed by the OP, but nobody seems to address the specifics. What classes are the advanced classes he’s taking? Because, as I wrote in an earlier post, based on what the OP wrote in earlier posts elsewhere he finished all of what seems like the typical college Freshman math curriculum by the time he was a junior in high school and then took one year more of college level math as a senior in high school. The OP writes he is taking “400” level courses. I assume she means “4000” level courses at RPI. </p>
<p>I don’t know exactly what simpler courses he should be taking, other than possibly repeating some of the stuff he already took in high school. Which is why I guess it depends on what specific math classes he’s taking, and what he’s already taken.</p>
<p>[Program:</a> Mathematics - Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - Acalog ACMS?](<a href=“Program: Mathematics - Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - Acalog ACMS™”>Program: Mathematics - Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - Acalog ACMS™)</p>
<p>I was 17 when I first took complex variables, which I think was a junior level course at the time. I’m sure lots of kids do. I didn’t do all that great, but because of the way I progressed through school there was really nothing for me to take below that level. I had already repeated some of my freshman calc. and it was a requirement for my major. I will say, fortunately I wasn’t a math major.</p>
<p>The gpa in the major matters. Why would a PhD program in math generally care about unrelated subjects? Math is a tough field to get into- most will have an 800 on the general GRE in math and they score the math GRE to 900. </p>
<p>My experience from eons ago as a Chemistry major was that unless I got an A I didn’t feel like I had mastered all of the material taught. This matters with subsequent courses, it is so much harder to have more to learn than if you had the knowledge from the previous course. A more gifted friend, four year NMS recipient, did not always get the grades- she actually needed a summer course to graduate despite doing the Honors thesis. She eventually gat a masters in comp sci and has worked in the field since. The smartest/ most gifted don’t always become the highest achievers.</p>
<p>Son originally took math and physics courses before he decided his major- honors versions. When there was a conflict with taking the next (regular) physics course and the next honors math course he and another student were told they had the math skills to take the more advanced physics course with the conflict one as a prerequisite instead. He got a B, likely due to his waning interest in the field as much as any lack of having the Mechanics course. When he overreached for grad programs in math and then decided to finish a second major in computer science he took courses in the wrong order to complete the major. His first love is still math but we’re proud he pursued plan B for job skills instead of alternatives. He got a job as a software developer at a top player in its field and has been recruited by a top company in the computer industry.</p>
<p>We are hoping our gifted 23 year old will decide on at least a masters program in a field in the future. We realize a PhD doesn’t always mean a job now but think he’ll once again want to do more and there are jobs requiring a masters, not just a BS plus experience. He’s not into making money- frugal- nor into business/entrepreneur lifestyle. We have to be patient and see where he ends up. He continues to be very well read on a variety of subjects and is not merely immersed in the field of his job. </p>
<p>Relating all of this to the OP. Having the innate ability but not translating it to obtaining the knowledge and skills will not get a person ahead of that less intelligent person who learns the material. Perhaps maturity will come with age and he will settle into a field. Right now it sounds like he is indulging himself in challenging his thinking. However, someday reality will hopefully kick in and he will discover than a smattering of knowledge will not mean as much as a thorough grounding in a field. If math is the field hopefully he is getting A’s (ie learning the material presented and thought processing expected) and progressing through upper level courses (including grad level ones) while indulging in other courses.</p>
<p>Sometimes the meandering path works instead of the shortest one. We’ll know where our kids are headed by the time they are 30, not 20 or 25 like we thought when they were younger. Frustrating, but patience is required. We have to let our kids lead their lives, not the one we thought they should because of their giftedness in any areas.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. Hearing what others think, and especially real life experiences, really helps. I also appreciate you allowing me to to work out some issues here, so I don’t “waste my quota” of concerns with my son.
Regarding his class choice, he was able to sign up for quantum physics because he had 3 or 4 physics classes in high school. But I felt like it was a real stretch, because he didn’t have any of the foundational classes at his college. He was also pretty advanced in math, so yes some of the classes he should be taking are 400 or 4000 level. But many people would not be taking 4 math classes as a freshman. I think he was able to take the 400 level logic class without the pre-reqs because he’s a math major, but that’s just a guess. He needs to learn to use his advisor more, but so far he’s been quite reluctant to engage him.
So, I applaud his willingness to jump right into the deep end, and not take really easy classes or classes that he’s had before, and I agree that there’s not much I can do about it, but I do worry about the potential impact on his future. (Not to mention I hate to think of the case where he decides he no longer wants to be a math major, after piling on so many math classes early on, But that’s another thread).</p>
<p>I am guessing he’ll have completed the major requirements early and will be taking graduate level classes his last couple of years!</p>