<p>'Schools are very open about whether they offer merit or only FA. This information is readily available. Having an EFC that makes you full-pay makes parents clarify college possibilities quite early because you know where you stand already. Financial aid will not be forthcoming and you have to act accordingly. "</p>
<p>And if you are not full pay, that information IS NOT available until April 1.</p>
<p>And if the PROFILE is submitted then individual schools have their own way of interpreting the numbers. And yes you know that some schools offer merit and your student has a good chance of receiving it but at the top scholarship level? I agree 100% that the money talk should happen at the beginning of the application process. But I think it is naive to think that in the fall one would have every bit of information needed. Many overnights and focused visits happen in the spring not in the fall. Many a parent will share that a perfect on paper did not turn out that way. Every financial detail, every major researched, every transportation issue calculated…some posters seem to think that you put it all in a spreadsheet and come April 1 push enter and there’s your answer. I love numbers and files probably more than the average but at some point emotions do come into play. In addition, four years go we were blown away by the differences in financial packages. Seemed like different applicants. Good luck to all those making decisions now. I believe that come next October all will be that their “first” choice school.</p>
<p>We were going after merit and great academics in 2006. Did not find this site until after the applications were in and deadlines passed. What we did not count on was sons safety about #45 on the ranking chart would offer up one of its few full ride + honors perk loaded packages. This absolutely blew the spread sheet apart for us.</p>
<p>He went there. Graduated with a 3.8 phi beta kappa with 2 separate degrees and ended up in a funded top ten grad school. He left school with more money than he started with.</p>
<p>You just never know unless you wait and see.</p>
<p>Sons friend was offered a full ride at Swarthmore on April 30th the year before when another student turned down the award to go to another school.</p>
<p>That student took the full ride to Swarthmore.</p>
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<p>Right. I understand that, Glido. I was responding to the situation of the OP, whose family is full-pay, and therefore would have known whether a certain college was affordable for them prior to financial aid notifications.</p>
<p>We were full pay. I could not afford $45,000 a year. I let my son apply to Duke, Swarthmore, Case western, RPI, Grinnell etc. They were all more than we could afford.</p>
<p>After April 1st he had merit scholarships at all. We had no idea how much he might get. </p>
<p>He had to apply and wait to find out. He got 1/2 tuition at Duke and Swarthmore and they were doable. </p>
<p>If he never applied he would not have gotten the option.</p>
<p>You just never know what will be affordable until you get the package.</p>
<p>people also use the package as bargaining chips to get better offers at other schools.</p>
<p>You have to play their game.</p>
<p>My doctor (also a neighbor and friend) went to Oberlin. His wife is a writer, and also an Oberlin grad.</p>
<p>Any good college can train a writer, regardless of whether they have great writing programs. Liberal arts colleges require tons of writing, whether the major is history, politics, English, or just about anything else.</p>
<p>For what its worth, I took one course in creative writing in college and was a psychology major. I started writing magazine articles on my own in my junior year, had my first one published in a no-name magazine my junior year, and had had half a dozen magazine articles published by the end of my senior year. I wrote magazine articles freelance for two years after graduation, getting articles published in magazines like Inc., Kiplingers and Sierra, with no formal training as a magazine writer. Then I decided that I didnt want to write for a living (and the miniscule pay helped make that decision easier).</p>
<p>Your son can learn how to be a writer at any of these schools. In fact, none of them will let him not learn how to write well. The last reason he should decide on one of these schools is because one has a better writing program than the other.</p>
<p>The OP did not expect that they would have the option to save $80,000 until after April. ( I think it was 20 a year?)</p>
<p>She was surprised. For her it was a game changer.</p>
<p>Life throws you curveballs. You have to be willing to adapt.</p>
<p>The son cannot possibly understand know how much $80,000 is to his family. He will be getting an awesome education at any of these schools.</p>
<p>I think there is more to think about here than just the issue of the merit aid and where he wants to go to school. For a lot of us money is a big issue. The fact that a college is offering a lot of money towards his education would be a huge factor in my house. There would be no question and since my kid knows the value of money, she would agree. If the money will mean a lot to you, or if there is a chance that your situation could change, i would let your child know that he needs to pick a school that is offering him aid.</p>
<p>You can’t possibly be sure that he will be miserable if you make him choose one of the schools that are offing aid. Just as he can’t be certain that he will be happy at his school choice. There is no way to know how things will go once he gets to where he is going. He could have a bad attitude about your pushing him to one school or another and may make himself miserable because of it. That would be his choice.</p>
<p>If your kids don’t understand the value of money and how far it can go, they need to learn now. Tell them how many hours working at a minimum wage job to buy that sweater or new pair of jeans. Let the college bound kid know that if you are putting out less money for school there will be more money floating around at home that could be used for comforts such as car for him. Making sure he understands the reality of how money affects our lives is important.</p>
<p>I so agree with the last few posts. I also want to say that I do not have faith that the economy will get any better in the next 20-40 years. While the $80,000 might seem disposable now (shockingly, to many of us) it might make the world of difference to the family in the future. It is so easy to get excited about schools, and say go with the dream, but I simply think it is not prudent, especially when you have such a great alternative offer.</p>
<p>^Agreed. The world is an uncertain place. For many families, it will be increasingly important to stay nimble and light on one’s feet (financially-speaking). This may mean that kids decline an expensive pathway in lieu of great merit at a solid (but less dreamy) school. But maintaining a small footprint at this stage could well lead to greater opportunities and wider vistas in the future.
(I am finishing up Debt-Free U right now and it is an interesting take on these same issues.)</p>
<p>Have D in similar situation. Choosing between 2 schools, one considered by many a little better academically with no merit and the other with 20K year merit. She really likes both schools. We do not qualify for FA. The question is, has anyone been able to successfully bargain with a school that at first did not offer merit?</p>
<p>JBroadway- the simple answer to your question is that yes, there are folks who have successfully bargained with a school that did not offer merit originally. But there are many, many caveats-
1- you will not get merit out of a school that offers need only FA just because your D got merit from somewhere else.
2- you will not get merit if your d was part of the applicant pool that was mentally tagged, “We like her, she’s full pay, she’s in”. You have no way of knowing this of course.
3- you will not get merit if they have run out of money and just have no more to give
4- you will not get merit if in their minds the school you are negotiating with is not a “peer institution” which is not the same thing as one school being better academically than the other.<br>
5- In general, the “better” school has no incentive to meet or beat an offer from a “lesser” school so tread carefully.</p>
<p>Bargaining for merit aid:</p>
<p>[That</a> Merit-Based Aid Offer Is Final, Universities Insist - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/merit-aid/]That”>That Merit-Based Aid Offer Is Final, Universities Insist - The New York Times)</p>
<p>OP, PM me if you want your S to chat with mine, who will be a freshman at Oberlin in the fall. Maybe talking to a more “mainstream” Obie might help. My S is liberal in his thinking and creative in his doing, but doesn’t party and doesn’t wear dresses. 
I think the size of Oberlin helps one find his niche. By the looks of his list (almost identical to ours), it seems your son wants a creative, intellectual school. Oberlin certainly fits the bill. Just remind him to join clubs and hang out where like-minded souls or upperclassmen go. I tend to think that freshman everywhere go over the top with their rebellion and craziness. </p>
<p>I wish you the best with your decision.</p>
<p>Dear Esmerelda, </p>
<p>Your story is JUST LIKE ours, with a couple of differences: I have Son#1 going to college in the Fall, and Son#2 going the yr after. We are not rich, nor poor, but “middlin.”<br>
We live in NY, and Son#1 wants badly to attend a UC School—we have many relatives in California. He basically got a free ride to a couple of private colleges here in the state. He’s interested in sciences. BUT the UC schools, esp IRVINE, his favorite, will cost US at least $30,000.00/yr!!! OUCH! If u know, HOW does an out-of-stater get money for a State school, NOT his own? If I “have to” . . . .(and we all do EVERYTHING for our kids), I suppose I can wangle some kind of loans, but really, we are in a dilemma, and May 1st is fast approaching. Any advice? I wrote you because your story is SO Much like ours…
Thanks…Steve (Scribbler30)</p>
<p>Scribbler30,
Whom are you doing a favor if you don’t save up enough for retirement and let your kiddo follow his dream where he needs to watch his family have HUGE, crushing debt? UC’s cost considerably more than $30K a year in 2010, especially if they have to pay room & board. Also, UCs can require more than 4 years to get a degree, especially if said student is unable to get classes, which has happened to several of our relatives at CA Us.</p>
<p>If your kid REALLY must go to UC, he needs to move to CA & get a job & become a resident and THEN apply to UC. Have not heard of any merit or other funds for OOS kids from UCs.</p>
<p>Your kiddo would do so much better financially taking the free ride and potentially going to a UC or elsewhere for grad school. Why burden your kid & your family? Why handicap S#2?</p>
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<p>Which schools? CSUs and especially community colleges seem to have the worst over-full-classes problem; there has not really be complaint about that on the Berkeley forum here (and Berkeley four year graduation rates are around 70%, though Irvine is lower at around 60%; at both schools, OOS domestic has a higher four year graduation rate).</p>
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<p>Some test runs of the net price calculators indicate that need aid at UCs is possible for OOS students, but they still want OOS students to pay the OOS surcharge. Merit scholarships do exist for OOS students, but are not necessarily big (other than the Drake Scholarship at Berkeley, which is full ride even for OOS, but is limited to mechanical engineering majors). In other words, some money does exist for OOS students, but OOS students should not expect much.</p>
<p>Scribbler 30,</p>
<p>Ouch is right! As someone who lives in CA but has relatives in NY, I urge you not to spend that kind of money for a school like Irvine. You have many in-state options that are equal or better than Irvine at less cost. Agree with HiMom, if kid really wants to go to school in CA, has to become a resident, attend CC and transfer…but know up front, that’s a long row to hoe.</p>
<p>UCs are counting on OOS students as an additional funding source! No bargains to be had…</p>
<p>Boy do I agree with you Owlboy. Problem is, my husband doesn’t. He doesn’t get what’s going on in this country–and world–and insists that my son get the “full” college experience. So we will pay 55K a year rather than 20K at Stonybrook. I can only pray</p>
<p>Oberlin is a wonderful school for Oberlin types. your son knows he’s not an Oberlin-type and so he shouldn’t go there. Since you can afford college for both your kids, let him go to Kenyon if he feels comfortable there. Don’t worry about grad school. First of all, he may not choose to go to grad school. Secondly, most non-professional grad programs (I.e. programs others than medical/dentistry/never school, law school or business school) will provide financial aid to a strong student. Thirdly, if he wants to go to grad school and there is no money available, he will be in a much better position to take on debt himself.</p>