<p>Re Stony Brook: I know of its negative rep, but I know many w
Who really like it a lot. One friend’s D left Smith and found a happy home there. I attended, and was accepted to an Ivy grad school. I live ten minutes away so feel free to PM with questions. My D will be starting a History masters in Sept. and the chair of grad studies is an archeologist. She just met with him yesterday and came away very impressed.</p>
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<p>Agree with proximity to Boston…though it is a long commuter train ride IME. They do run buses, though.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say they’re equal as Brandeis is stronger in pre-med and some other areas…whereas they’re considerably weaker in others. Hence, the reasons why a few former Brandeis students transferred to Oberlin. </p>
<p>In short…whether one is better than the other really depends on what one plans to major in.</p>
<p>OP</p>
<p>Personally, I think Brandeis is the ‘best’ school on your son’s list. One of my D’s graduated from there with an English/Philosophy double major a couple of years ago, and we were very happy with the education.</p>
<p>As to your situation – I really hate to say this, but I sort of see your son’s point. The “Discussion” about finances and what you can afford, or how much the overall cost will weigh into the decision probably should have been made when he was in the application process. </p>
<p>This being said – your son should understand your standard of living by virtue of having been a part of your home for 17-18 years. He should understand what the extra money means in this case.</p>
<p>My only thought, if you think he is mature enough to make this decision, perhaps explain that you’ll pay for the school of your choice, but if you do, you won’t be able to help out with grad school. If he doesn’t go to grad school, then perhaps there will be money available for other things (for example to help with his purchasing a home down the line). However, he should understand that once you spend the money, it’s gone.</p>
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<p>Then Duke is an option.</p>
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<p>No dilemma here, Johnny got effectively rejected. Move on to other choices.</p>
<p>but that means that 80 percent of students don’t perform as well…might that affect the intellectual atmosphere and level of teaching at F&M</p>
<p>I haven’t personally experienced F & M but I have known excellent students who have gone there.</p>
<p>My son got full ride from our state flagship college, but he chose to go to an Ivy without any FA. He is Junior now, I am not sure he made the right choice. The IVY education let him insist in “following his dream” and “don’t settle for the second best”. It ends up, my son refuses to take any career path such as Accounting or Actuary (too boring). The school does not offer any career oriented curriculum anyway. I really worry about his future.
Now, it is my daughter’s turn to choose her college. She got in all 10 colleges she applied for. Is it worth of paying $220,000+ to go to Georgetown, BC or NYU? On the other hand, several colleges offer 50% merit scholarship. Tough choice.</p>
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<p>Right. There’s an Ivy League school that doesn’t offer any career-oriented curriculum. This is patent nonsense.</p>
<p>I had a very similar situation last year. I couldn’t go to my dream school Wesleyan, and had to settle for a school I despised (Illinois Wesleyan). I ended up having a great time. College is what you make of it.</p>
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<p>I don’t think any of the three schools under consideration can be “best” without considering the potential major. </p>
<p>If we’re talking English literature/creative writing…Kenyon would arguably be tops followed closely by Oberlin and Brandeis. </p>
<p>If we’re talking STEM…Brandeis would be tops for pre-med…but Oberlin would be better for someone aspiring for a STEM PhD for a science research career. </p>
<p>For East Asian Studies/related fields…especially China, Oberlin.</p>
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<p>Know a high school classmate who studied a humanities major who ended up being recruited by a Big-4 accounting firm despite having no prior training because of the reputation of her LAC and 3.5+ GPA. She found she loved it and has been a practicing CPA for almost 15 years. </p>
<p>However, her parents weren’t the types to push her on finding a career path in the first place as you seem to be in your comments. </p>
<p>She also came from a family that had to sacrifice heavily for her to attend her school even with FA/scholarships. However…in their view…they felt her education was an investment worth sacrificing for.</p>
<p>“It’s too bad you didn’t have the money talk before applications. Water over the dam.” - Mini</p>
<p>It’s too bad the colleges don’t calculate your EFC the year prior, so you can determine which schools might be affordale before you send in the $70 chack and write all the essays. Any “money talk” is going to be lacking material specifics until the FA award comes in.</p>
<p>^If you are a full-pay family, you know this before the apps go in. You fill out the FAFSA 4caster and all the numerous EFC calculators, and you get a pretty firm idea that you’re not going to be eligible for any need-based aid. At this point, you have to take a good hard look at your family finances and tell your child whether or not you can really cough up the full-pay amount, or whether merit aid will be required. It’s also within your right to tell your child you will not pay for a certain school in advance of application, and take that school off the list. We did this for our D. There are certain schools I will never pay 55K for, and others I would. We made this clear prior to the applications.</p>
<p>Schools are very open about whether they offer merit or only FA. This information is readily available.</p>
<p>Having an EFC that makes you full-pay makes parents clarify college possibilities quite early because you know where you stand already. Financial aid will not be forthcoming and you have to act accordingly.</p>
<p>It is unwise to make him go to a place he doesn’t want. I have a friend whose life was destroyed that way. However, you don’t have to pay for his choice. If he wants to take out loans and go into massive debt, that’s his choice.</p>
<p>There’s one other piece of important info that he should know; although he’ll never accept it. College is overrated. Public school brain washes you from kindergarten that college is the answer to all you dreams. It isn’t. The material is overly esoteric. The professors are out of touch with reality and care mostly about their own careers. Graduates can’t find a way to make a living because the schools don’t train them in anything. The job placement departments are a joke and sham. The so-called elite schools are the biggest lie of all. I suggest he go with the money. This country is going broke - save your pennies.</p>
<p>To MiamiDAP:
QUOTE: <“It is a sweet dilemma, but we are a little surprised by how difficult it is to sweep Reach School off the table. "
-It is as difficult dilemma as it is very predictable. If certain school is out of reach financially, why apply? Applying to school like this will only create tension and will make very enjoyable process very stressful. This stress is artificially created, it is completely avoidable. It is up to parents to make sure that family celebrates college admission instead of breaking apart and remembering this period as one of the most stressful in their history.” ></p>
<p>Miami, I posted about this 'sweet dilemma" (DS admitted to reach school, though he will likely enroll at one of his affordable merits, both perfect fits and one has been his #1 choice from Day One). I want to clarify. Our family is not experiencing terrible stress, nor is it breaking apart. To the contrary, it can be a great learning experience to apply to some reaches, financial or otherwise; my son would have lost out if we’d steered him away from all stress by attempting to remove unpredictability from the process. Under certain circumstances, it is worth applying to a financial reach or two! DS did and though he probably won’t enroll at the financial reach, he is delighted with the outcome. We’ve learned a lot and enjoyed the entire process. All financial constraints were discussed ahead of time. That is key, as there were no surprises–it was all clear as a bell for DS. </p>
<p>I don’t agree that FA outcomes are always predictable or that (since we can be duly armed with that FA info ahead of time) there is no point applying to a financial reach (Sometimes there is! It depends). We are a sensible, debt-averse family, so DS applied to 3 FA safeties, 3 matches, 2 known merits (perfect matches in terms of specific major + affordable) and one reach: that was USC School of Cinema Arts. No one can be 100% certain about USC–it’s expensive, but they can surprisingly generous with scholarships. You can’t know unless you apply and DS had good reason to try, with a 2300 SAT, three animation awards, and a fantastic portfolio. As it turns out, he did not get selected for a scholarship and so probably won’t attend. This is not a tragedy, because it was not his one and only “dream school” (though he loves it!) and he has multiple offers that are affordable at programs that are perfect for him. </p>
<p>The process of applying to USC SCA, being admitted, and having to (likely) decline for financial reasons has been a GOOD experience. I am glad we did not take it off the table prematurely in an attempt to protect him from facing difficult, real-world choices. He knew that he would attend only if the FA package allowed him to do so without loans (nothing beyond Staffords). So, there is no major heartbreak and not that much stress. It is a <em>good</em> kind of stress, in fact: he is choosing among multiple great options. </p>
<p>So, one size does not fit all. For schools that offer talent-based scholarships, or kids with specific majors or wide ranging interests (not a specific, set career path), it can certainly be worth tossing a hat into the ring at a couple of reach schools. As long as the kid has realistic expectations and rock solid financial safeties/matches, why ever not? </p>
<p>My son enjoyed and benefited from this college application experience–including the acceptance w/poor FA to USC SCA. For ex: We are closer than ever as a family, he has learned about financial planning, cost/benefit analysis and complex decision-making (including weighing the ‘common good’ within a family vs. debt, ambition and self-interest). If USC was taken out of the picture at the outset, he would have missed out on all that! </p>
<p>Lastly, DS was accepted into what is arguably the best program in the U.S./world (certainly one of the best) for his major. That is pure gold, whether he attends or not. That is why I described it as a “sweet” dilemma–noting that DS was fine with all of it; it is only H and I who are imagining “What If…” And no matter what the outcome is on May 1, he will always know he was <em>good enough</em> for USC’s School of Cinema Arts. And that’s priceless. :)</p>
<p>Sounds like a healthy family and a healthy kid. I like the idea of learning from the process. If you can all bid goodbye to USC no harm done. My kid bid goodbye to Brown and U of C for reasons of temperament, not finances, and that was a learning experience too.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider with parents paying for college is if they will be able to foot the bill for the entire four years (in some cases more) that the student is attending school. </p>
<p>I have a friend who got into her dream school, a small religious college in California. Money was a big concern, especially since she was from the Midwest and traveling/living expenses needed to be taken into account. She and her family talked about the financial burden, and her parents were sympathetic, knowing how hard she worked and how much it meant to her. They told her that they just wanted her to be happy, and they’d figure out a way to assist her so she could attend her dream school. They managed to do so for about a year. My friend had a great freshman year, finding a lot of success and fulfillment academically and socially. </p>
<p>When she returned home for the summer, her parents had a very difficult conversation with her. Their financial situation had changed, and they could not afford to send her back to her college for sophomore year. They asked her to move back home permanently, attend community college for a year, and then look into transferring to some less expensive schools. </p>
<p>My friend was devastated. She spent the next year depressed and resentful towards her parents. She ended up failing most of her community college courses because she was so upset over what she’d lost and couldn’t find the motivation to take classes that she didn’t care about. Over the next few years, she spent time in and out of various schools (community college, a state university, and a nearby private school that offered a nice grant) and was mostly unsuccessful at all of them. She never did complete her degree. </p>
<p>Of course not all of her problems were a result of having to leave her first-choice college. But I do believe that my friend would have been better off and would likely have graduated if she had decided to go with one of the second or third choice schools and made a solid financial plan with her parents instead of taking a risk just to attend the top choice. Even if she wasn’t initially sold on some of the other schools, in the end she still would have received a worthwhile education and college experience.</p>
<p>I know the OP’s situation is not exactly the same since she mentioned being able to pay for college even if her son does choose Kenyon. But my point is that sometimes ignoring the sad reality of money and opting for the expensive dream college can end in just as must heartbreak as going to a school the student is less enthusiastic about.</p>
<p>People do have to be realistic about whether they can afford the full four years. On the the other hand, people’s financial circumstances do change, and I don’t believe that making plans on the basis of assumed catastrophe is the best way to choose a college.</p>
<p>We’ve made it clear to our D that her ability to attend her top-choice college as a full-pay student for four years will only be possible if we do not suffer a dramatic loss of income while she is in school. As of now, we can pay. We have no reason to assume that our situation will change that radically over the next few years. If it does, then she will be transferring to a place we can afford under our new circumstances. Plenty of kids do this, and while it’s a disappointment, it needn’t be a life-destroying disaster.</p>
<p>Well, in the case of my friend, it was a little different - her parents came up with a complicated plan that they later realized was likely not going to work for four years. Looking back, they admitted that they should have been a bit more realistic. </p>
<p>That does sound fair, NJSue. It’s good that you made it clear to her right away that if financial circumstances change, so will her college plans. If something unfortunately did happen, at least she wouldn’t be blindsided by the new situation.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing that cautionary tale, Papertown. A family can’t always predict what will happen to them on the income or expense front–or what their investments will do over the short term.</p>
<p>We always worked in two year increments. At the end of high school, we put together cash for the first two years of college. If a financial catastrophe occurred, our student would at least get through 2 years and be able to transfer as a junior. At the end of sophomore year in college, we put together cash for the remaining two years. That way, we were sure that whatever happened, she’d be able to finish school. </p>
<p>Knock on wood, so far nothing untoward has happened…</p>
<p>Well if you are paying for his entire college, you have the right to send him where you want, unless he wants to pay for college. Send him to the school that gives merit awards, but also to the one that you think will make him the most successful.</p>