My son tried to transfer to a harder school and failed out.

Parents Forum
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<p>lastminutemom196 Thank you. I am amazed at how much good advice I am getting.</p>

<p>[Comprehensive</a> Articulation Agreement](<a href=“http://www.northcarolina.edu/aa/articulation/index.htm]Comprehensive”>http://www.northcarolina.edu/aa/articulation/index.htm)</p>

<p>What an awesome site. I have not seen it before.</p>

<p>In North Carolina, the CC program allows 44 credits that can transfer to any university.</p>

<p>The local CC Wake Tech is closed until January 3. January 3 is the last day to register for classes. I have no idea if we can make it through the registration process in one day.</p>

<p>I have discussed this with my son.</p>

<p>He feels he has three options.

  1. Take classes at CC
  2. Take 6 more credits at NC State
  3. Take Semester off (neither of us want that)</p>

<p>At this point Option 1 is preferred by both of us.</p>

<p>January 3 will be a busy day and we need to have our game plan.</p>

<p>Regardless, we need to talk to advisors at NC State and ECU.
However, given the time crunch, we will focus on Wake Tech January 3.</p>

<p>Anyone who can help us through the registration process in one day, would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>Plan A is now Register at Wake Tech and talk with NC State and ECU.
My son has to decide if this is really the path he wants to pursue and what he wants to major in. Right now, we we will focus on choosing 12 or 15 out of 44 credits good at all NC schools. Then try to sign up at Wake Tech Jan 3. He can tweak his schedule during the first week of classes if he gets in. Talk with State and ECU as soon as possible, but realistically nothing will get done before Summer and Fall deadlines.</p>

<p>For those concerned I am pushing my S into engineering, it is quite the opposite. Having been and Engineer for 30 years, I have seen the profession change. The reality of the world today is that it is a global planet with outsourcing. I do not want to start a whole other thread on this topic. At this point my son is free to get any 4 year degree he wants wants. IT is his life. </p>

<p>I do however recommend a 4 year degree. I have had several very good engineers work for me who do not have 4 year degrees. As they get in their 30 and 40s they always lament they are worried about switching jobs because because they do not have the degree.</p>

<p>Keep the suggestions coming. Can anyone advise on how to register in 1 day? </p>

<p>BTW, In answer to posts my S took College Algebra at ECU. I will have to talk with State Advisor on grade forgiveness policy.</p>

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<p>My D took 3 semesters at the local CC. It was GREAT for her (in HI). She had wonderful teachers who often taught the SAME material to much larger classes and charged many times the tuition the flagship U as those she had at her CC. I’d suggest your S go to the local CC & find out from them how to sign up & register. That is the only place that can have answers. For our D, she was able to figure it out & do it. When the courses were full, she could go to class & beg the teacher to allow her to add when other students dropped (or sometimes even if they didn’t).</p>

<p>Would definitely suggest your S go & talk with an advisor at CC–bringing his transcripts & finding out how they can help. CCs are funded by your state tax dollars and they are PAID to help students figure out their path and help them succeed where they will go next.</p>

<p>Good luck to your S!</p>

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<p>I’m kind of wondering whether your son has the math aptitude to succeed in engineering. He took a full year of remedial math at his first college, and still struggled in calculus.</p>

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<p>College Algebra is not considered remedial math at ECU. It is a one semester math course that can fulfill the math Gen. Ed. requirement for Humanity and Social Science majors or may be the first math course in a series of required courses for some other majors that are not hard sciences/engineering. For example, my S2 was required to take some sort of Alg. class and then Statistics for his Criminal Justice major.
In the ECU engineering program, Engineering Calc. is a first sem. freshman class. I take it the OP’s son was not majoring in Engineering during his year at ECU but decided he wanted to do that at NCSU.</p>

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<p>Math 1065, College algebra: Topics include sets; linear, quadratic, polynomial, and exponential functions; inequalities; permutations; combinations; binomial theorem; and mathematical induction.</p>

<p>You can call it what you want, but it’s tenth or eleventh grade math for most students who will succeed in getting an engineering degree. College math courses for engineers include single-variable calculus, multivariable calculus, differential equations and linear algebra.</p>

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<p>Your’re right. That’s why I said that the OP’s S must not have been majoring in engineering at ECU because he took Math 1065 which engineering majors wouldn’t take. Wasn’t saying it’s a engineering math, just that it’s not remedial. It is a required math for some majors .
I’m familiar with the engineering math sequence. DH has a Mech. Eng. degree. and S1 had to take the engineering calc./physics sequence for his program.<br>
I totally agree that Math 1065 at ECU would not have been any kind of prep. for Calculus for engineering at NCSU.</p>

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<p>op, I undertand the importance of a 4 year college education. But, your son may want to consider the auto machenic route if he is good at it. As I have told before, my cousin was kicked out in the colleges, he went to the BMW school and became the best BMW machenics in town (Baltimore) and the owner of several gas stations. He was retired multi-millionare at age of 45, while we were still struggling with company politics.</p>

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<p>If the students are studying 10th grade math in college, isn’t that a de facto remedial course?</p>

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<p>Any math that comes before calculus is “remedial” from a college standpoint, since the “at grade level” math for college freshmen is calculus.</p>

<p>“At grade level” math:</p>

<p>9th grade: algebra 1
10th grade: geometry
11th grade: algebra 2
12th grade: precalculus/trigonometry
college freshman: calculus
college sophomore: multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations</p>

<p>Obviously, not all students will need to take calculus or higher math for their majors. But those who are not ready to take calculus as college freshmen need to take remedial courses if required for their major or to prepare for calculus.</p>

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<p>I would be wondering why my son did so poorly when he was ONLY taking TWO classes???</p>

<p>Doesn’t sound like he’s engineering material. He may feel that his family expects this career for him, but it doesn’t sound like “his area.”</p>

<p>Once he’s at the CC, he needs to explore what his real strengths are.</p>

<p>Good luck! :)</p>

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<p>Does the school where he was for freshman year have the grades from the school he transferred to? If not drop the grades and return to the school where he had academic success. He was only gone for a semester. Students leave colleges all the time for a semester or a year and return. Who knows if they were at another school?</p>

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<p>2PathsMom,The OP’s S did not officially withdraw or apply for a leave of absence from school #1.
So from the school’s point of view, this student simply quit.</p>

<p>So now if he wants to return to school #1, he would have to apply as a transfer which requires a transcript with 30 credit hours from the school he is transferring from. I believe the gpa fr. the transfer school must be 2.5. The OP’s S only took two classes at school #2 and did poorly. So he does not have the credit hours nor the gpa to transfer back to sch. #1 which apparently he’s not really interested doing in anyhow.
The OP states that he will more than likely go to CC starting in Jan.</p>

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<p>Clarification: My son took pre-calculous at ECU and Calculus at NC STate.</p>

<p>Yes, I am concerned if he can handle engineering.</p>

<p>Yes he received a D in Engineering Calculus.</p>

<p>I believe he had a Low C going into the final and under-estimated the weight and significance of the final.</p>

<p>Clearly he should have completed his 2nd year at ECU and then decided if he could attend state.</p>

<p>I imagine he could apply to ECU and omit taking classes state. He had 31 credits at ECU. Two As he had State would not accept because they did not have equivalent classes.</p>

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<p>Hi PackMom!</p>

<p>To the OP-
NC here as well. My kiddos have attended Wake Tech and NCSU. Daughter’s fiance and son both took engineering courses at NCSU and other state colleges.</p>

<p>Realize that ABET accredited schools are at NCSU, UNC Charlotte, A & T, Western, Duke while other schools like ECU’s have a single program(degree) that is accredited without a school of engineering. ECU’s program was first accredited in 2007. So the math and pre-reqs will not have the same depth as those at NCSU.</p>

<p>As a non-degree studies student he would be entitled to the same advisement from his professors but not from the school of engineering. The Calc and physics he took are the weed-out courses for NCSU’s engineering program. Even after he is admitted to NCSU he still has to apply seperately to the engineering school and maintain at least at 3.2 average to remain there.</p>

<p>One of NC’s hidden engineering gems is at NCA&T. As an HBCU it focuses on its students and does provide one-on-one advising/counseling/tutoring especially for their engineering students. Total enrollment is arounf 4000 and just a few hundred are engineering students. A&T in a joint venture with UNC Greensboro has opened a new start of the art building/labs/program in nanoscience and nanoengineering. Amazing is an understatement.</p>

<p>The requirements to transfer are not as rigourous as NCSU. The courses and students (within) engineering are coorperative vs. competitve and classes are small, 17-20 students per class. The campus itself is a stark contrast to NCSU and ECU. And the best cafeteria we have come across. Greensboro is different than Raleigh but you are looking for engineering not locales!</p>

<p>I would look to other schools for engineering here in NC. Use ABET’s website search function and it will tell you which schools to look at. Remember some schools have only 1 degree program not a school of engineering.</p>

<p>NCSU has grade forgiveness but for full-time students and those who have their first year at NCSU. You can register late at Wake Tech but classes maybe full however you can add a few days later after the class thins out.</p>

<p>A&T has a project for the engineering students working on race cars and moon rover. Neat stuff. </p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>OP, it is a difficult situation. What does your son want to do? Was yours or his dicision to take those two classes at NC state?</p>

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<p>Not all CC classes are easier versions of their university counterparts but some are and the student body is less competitive overall (although this may change as college costs push more qualified students into less expensive options). However - if the OP’s son goes off to CC to get some sort of generic package of gen. ed. credits with plans to transfer he may get the gpa he needs and then once again find himself in difficulty at a four year school if he is able to then enroll as an engineering major. </p>

<p>It’s somewhat a matter of context as I see it - clearly the son has not had success now in moving from school A to school B and I think part of that is a lack of perspective on the relative level of difficulty in the very different programs he appears to have been enrolled in. Two years at my local CC would be very different than 2 years at the state flagship as an engineering student. Two years at the CC would be heavily loaded with easier gen ed requirements, only a portion of the classes a first or second year engineering student would likely take at the university…setting an unsuspecting student up for a big surprise at transfer time. BTW - the transfer rate from the local CC to the state U is dismal…in single digits when looking at hs kids who enter CC vs. that same cohort transfering to university two or three years later according to the state university.</p>

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<p>CC students who intend to transfer should look at articulation agreements with the state universities which specify what courses they need to take at their CCs to prepare for the desired major at the state universities they are considering transferring to. A generic package of general education credits won’t do – the transfer applicant needs to be prepared to enter his/her desired major at the four year school.</p>

<p>Actually, in hindsight, it would likely have been better for the student in this thread to have started at CC, given that he started behind in math. From that starting point, it may take three years at CC to prepare to transfer as a junior in engineering at one of the state universities, but extra years at CC are less expensive than extra years at a four year school.</p>

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<p>We drove over to the CC and walked around (although it was closed). The bookstore was open and we found the registration building.
The drive is about 30 minutes each way and I took him out to lunch. We talked quite a bit.<br>
First off in the conversation was what does he want to do for a living. He said if he knew, he would be more motivated. </p>

<p>I told him he was free to do whatever he wanted, but at some point he is going to have to support himself. He said he knew that.
I pointed out that :

  1. On average college graduates earn more than non-college graduates.
  2. The un-employment rate for those without college degrees is about double those with degrees. (9% vs 4.5%).
  3. 1/3 students who start college never graduate.
  4. 75% of drop outs from college never return to college.
    There are no rules and no guarantees. However, statistically college is the better path if you can afford it.</p>

<p>Does any one have a statistic on how many CC students actually transfer to a 4 year school My father-in-law made all 5 of hi kids go to two years off CC. 4/5 went on to 4 year colleges.</p>

<p>My S said that he told his advisor at ECU what he was doing and going to state. He said his advisor wished him luck and said to call him if state did not work out he could return. His advisor did not tell him to fill out any forms. Yes I will be talking to his ECU advisor next week. Yes I should have spoken to his ECU advisor directly.</p>

<p>My son has applied online for Wake CC, authorized transcripts, and is taking their placement tests on line.
The important thing here is to keep his options open and getting better.
He has completed 37 college credits (31+6). We will try to determine out of the 44 core credits, which ones he is missing. If anyone can tell me how to to do this would be great.</p>

<p>The plan for Tuesday January 3rd is to get enrolled in 12-15 credits at the local CC. Then talk more with State and ECU.<br>
I’ll keep you posted and thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.</p>

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<p>It is low, but most CC students are not intending to transfer to a four year school. They are studying to an associates degree or other certification, or just taking needed courses to prepare for some type of job. Or they are taking a personal interest course (e.g. learning a foreign language).</p>

<p>However, most students in courses like math (once he gets to calculus or higher math) and physics will be taking them to prepare for transfer to a four year school in a major requiring those courses.</p>

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<p>ucb - I agree that the CC would probably have been a good place to start - but I think that now, because the student has experienced what he perceives as failure, the bigger picture needs to be considered more carefully and realistically than it was originally. Short term success in CC will only make the student feel confident and successful if the transition to the four year program is successful. I’m not sure the student will feel confident in his abilities until he is able to experience success in a program that leads to the degree he is seeking - given the current situation, if he were my child, I would be anticipating uncertainty to be plaguing his confidence which can be a problem in itself.</p>

<p>The reality is that a small percentage of students are actually capable of completing an engineering degree, he needs a realistic evaluation of his strengths and interests to find a good match with a program that will lead him to employment he will enjoy (may or may not be an engineering degree). Whether he spends some time at a local CC or not, this time around he has to have a true picture of how that matches up with the next step at the university, otherwise his current disappointment will simply be repeated at some point down the road.</p>