<p>The statements I made on post #79 are true.</p>
<p>Please see the attached table (from StateUniversity.com) that I used for SAT (as one of the students’ selectivity functions) evaluations.</p>
<p>Rank SAT 75th Percentile Scores<br>
2010 2009 School Name 2010 2009<br>
1 ↑ 2 Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering 1590 1580 (↑0.6%)<br>
2 ↑ 3 Yale University 1590 1580 (↑0.6%)<br>
3 ↓ 1 Harvard University 1590 N/C<br>
4 ↑ 5 Princeton University 1580 N/C<br>
5 ↑ 6 Harvey Mudd College 1560 N/C<br>
6 ↑ 14 Pomona College 1560 1530 (↑2.0%)<br>
7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 1560 N/C<br>
8 ↓ 4 California Institute of Technology 1560 1580 (↓1.3%)<br>
9 ↓ 8 Dartmouth College 1550 N/C<br>
10 ↑ 13 Washington University in St Louis 1540 1530 (↑0.7%)<br>
11 ↓ 10 Duke University 1540 N/C<br>
12 ↓ 9 Stanford University 1540 1550 (↓0.6%)<br>
13 ↑ 17 Brown University 1540 1530 (↑0.7%)<br>
14 ↓ 12 Columbia University in the City of New York 1540 N/C<br>
15 University of Chicago 1530 N/C<br>
16 ↑ 22 Rice University 1530 1510 (↑1.3%)<br>
17 ↓ 11 Swarthmore College 1520 1540 (↓1.3%)<br>
18 University of Pennsylvania 1520 N/C<br>
19 ↓ 16 Amherst College 1520 1530 (↓0.7%)<br>
20 ↑ 25 Northwestern University 1520 1500 (↑1.3%)<br>
21 ↓ 19 Williams College 1520 N/C<br>
22 ↑ 27 Johns Hopkins University 1510 1490 (↑1.3%)<br>
23 ↑ 38 Bowdoin College 1510 1470 (↑2.7%)<br>
24 ↓ 23 Cornell University 1500 N/C<br>
25 ↓ 21 University of Notre Dame 1500 1510 (↓0.7%)<br>
26 ↑ 28 Tufts University 1500 1490 (↑0.7%)<br>
27 ↓ 24 Claremont McKenna College 1500 N/C<br>
28 ↑ 30 Carnegie Mellon University 1500 1490 (↑0.7%)<br>
29 ↑ 35 Vanderbilt University 1500 1480 (↑1.4%)<br>
30 St Tikhon’s Orthodox Theological Seminary 1500<br>
31 ↑ 32 Wesleyan University 1490 1480 (↑0.7%)<br>
32 ↓ 26 Carleton College 1490 N/C<br>
33 ↑ 37 Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art 1490 1470 (↑1.4%)<br>
34 ↓ 33 Middlebury College 1480 N/C<br>
35 ↑ 42 Washington and Lee University 1480 1460 (↑1.4%)<br>
36 ↓ 29 Haverford College 1480 1490 (↓0.7%)<br>
37 ↓ 36 Emory University 1470 N/C<br>
38 ↑ 43 University of Southern California 1470 1460 (↑0.7%)<br>
39 Reed College 1470 N/C<br>
40 ↓ 34 Wellesley College 1465 1480 (↓1.0%)<br>
41 ↑ 45 Vassar College 1460 1450 (↑0.7%)<br>
42 ↑ 46 University of California-Berkeley 1460 1450 (↑0.7%)<br>
43 ↑ 54 Colgate University 1460 1430 (↑2.1%)<br>
44 ↓ 31 Georgetown University 1460 1490 (↓2.0%)<br>
45 ↓ 44 Brandeis University 1460 N/C<br>
46 ↑ 52 Davidson College 1458 1436 (↑1.5%)<br>
47 ↓ 40 Grinnell College 1450 1460 (↓0.7%)<br>
48 ↑ 49 Macalester College 1450 1440 (↑0.7%)<br>
49 ↓ 41 Oberlin College 1450 1460 (↓0.7%)<br>
50 ↓ 48 Barnard College 1440 N/C<br>
51 ↑ 63 University of Virginia-Main Campus 1440 1420 (↑1.4%)<br>
52 ↓ 47 College of William and Mary 1440 1450 (↓0.7%)<br>
53 ↑ 55 New York University 1440 1430 (↑0.7%)<br>
54 ↓ 51 Scripps College 1440 N/C<br>
55 ↓ 53 Boston College 1430 N/C<br>
56 ↑ 59 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 1430 1420 (↑0.7%)<br>
57 ↓ 50 Colby College 1430 1440 (↓0.7%)<br>
58 ↑ 66 Kenyon College 1430 1420 (↑0.7%)<br>
59 ↑ 60 Wheaton College 1420 N/C<br>
60 ↑ 62 Jewish Theological Seminary of America 1420 N/C<br>
61 ↑ 68 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 1420 N/C<br>
62 ↑ 69 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus 1420 N/C<br>
63 ↑ 108 Tulane University of Louisiana 1420 1370 (↑3.6%)<br>
64 ↓ 57 St. Olaf College 1410 1420 (↓0.7%)<br>
65 ↑ 75 University of California-Los Angeles 1410 1400 (↑0.7%)<br>
66 ↑ 71 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 1410 N/C<br>
67 ↓ 61 Connecticut College 1410 1420 (↓0.7%)<br>
68 ↑ 72 Case Western Reserve University 1410 N/C<br>
69 ↓ 64 University of Rochester 1410 1420 (↓0.7%)<br>
70 ↓ 67 Bryn Mawr College 1410 1420 (↓0.7%)<br>
71 ↓ 56 Whitman College 1410 1430 (↓1.4%)<br>
72 ↑ 74 Bard College at Simon’s Rock 1410 N/C<br>
73 ↑ 86 Trinity College 1400 1380 (↑1.4%)<br>
74 ↑ 123 Lehigh University 1400 1350 (↑3.7%)<br>
75 ↓ 58 New College of Florida 1400 1420 (↓1.4%)<br>
76 ↑ 80 Colorado College 1400 1390 (↑0.7%)<br>
77 ↑ 91 Lewis & Clark College 1400 1380 (↑1.4%)<br>
78 ↑ 103 Illinois Wesleyan University 1400 1370 (↑2.2%)<br>
79 ↓ 73 Wake Forest University 1400 1410 (↓0.7%)<br>
80 ↑ 84 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 1400 1390 (↑0.7%)<br>
81 ↑ 111 Truman State University 1390 1360 (↑2.2%)<br>
82 ↑ 90 Smith College 1390 1380 (↑0.7%)<br>
83 ↑ 104 Dickinson College 1390 1370 (↑1.5%)<br>
84 ↑ 94 Beloit College 1390 1380 (↑0.7%)<br>
85 ↓ 76 University of Tulsa 1390 1400 (↓0.7%)<br>
86 ↓ 77 Bucknell University 1390 1400 (↓0.7%)<br>
87 Franklin and Marshall College 1390<br>
88 ↓ 78 Grove City College 1389 1393 (↓0.3%)<br>
89 Gustavus Adolphus College 1380<br>
90 ↓ 87 Furman University 1380 N/C<br>
91 ↓ 88 Villanova University 1380 N/C<br>
92 ↑ 182 United States Air Force Academy 1380 1319 (↑4.6%)<br>
93 ↑ 114 Gettysburg College 1380 1360 (↑1.5%)<br>
94 ↓ 89 University of Wisconsin-Madison 1380 N/C<br>
95 Trinity University 1380 N/C<br>
96 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 1380 N/C<br>
97 ↓ 82 Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 1380 1390 (↓0.7%)<br>
98 ↑ 119 University of Florida 1380 1360 (↑1.5%)<br>
99 ↓ 97 Knox College 1380 N/C<br>
100 ↓ 83 SUNY at Geneseo 1380 1390 (↓0.7%)</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale/Princeton
Colu/Dart/Penn
Brown/Cornell</p>
<p>Stanford/Mit
UCHI/Willams/Amhrest/CIT
Northwestern/JHU/</p>
<p>UCB
UMICH/UCLA/UVA/UNC
UIUC/UWM/GIT</p>
<p>Public </p>
<p>W&M</p>
<p>Virginia
California
Michigan</p>
<p>UNC/UCLA/Ga Tech/Wisconsin</p>
<p>To fellow top 8 list contributors:</p>
<p>Thanks for your contributions. We move on to the next step. If available, would you please post your opinions regarding whether or not the institutes on your top 8 list, for non-ivy private universities/LAC, and public universities categories, are on par (the same level) with ivies for undergraduate and graduate (if available) education? </p>
<p>Based on my observations regarding undergraduate education, the following trends can be observed:</p>
<p>At the top 8, private institutes (both ivy and non-ivy) ranked better than best public universities.</p>
<p>At the top 8, these non-ivy private institutes ranked as good as ivies.</p>
<p>My list as an example:</p>
<p>Undergraduate </p>
<p>Level 1 </p>
<p>Harvard=Princeton=Yale [3 ivies]
tie
Stanford=MIT= Caltech [3 Non-ivy Private]</p>
<p>Level 2</p>
<p>Brown=Columbia=Cornell=Dartmouth=Penn [5 ivies]
tie
Duke=Chicago =JHU=Northwestern (or WashingtonU or Rice)=Williams=Amherst [5 Non-ivy Private]</p>
<p>Level 3</p>
<p>Berkeley=UVA=UCLA=Michigan=UNC=W&M [6 Best Public]</p>
<p>Level 4</p>
<p>Wisconsin=UIUC (or UTAustin) [2 Best Public]</p>
<p>Graduate schools </p>
<p>For graduate schools rankings, as I posted on another ccs thread, in September 2010, NRC published their decadal assessment of doctoral programs. R-rankings (quasi reputation-based) and S-Rankings (survey-based) are the two major components used for NRC 2010 rankings. It is not difficult for one to find the rankings results were highly disconcert between the two. Despite controversy, I like R-rankings for they reflected the contemporary reputation survey of institutions, similar approaches used for their (NRCs) 1983 and 1995 rankings. MetaEzra, a website founded and run by Cornell alumni, posted its overall PhD programs rankings entitled In Composite 2010 NRC Rankings, Cornell Ranks 9th based on R-rankings of 12 core fields. </p>
<p>Please see the comparative results between aforementioned universities for their PhD education. </p>
<p>PhD Programs Rankings in 2010 (MetaEzra 2010): </p>
<p>Ivies: Princeton (4), Harvard (5), Yale (7), Cornell (9), Columbia (13), Penn (14), Brown (25), Dartmouth (82)</p>
<p>Non-ivy Private: MIT (2), Stanford (3), Chicago (10), Duke (11), Northwestern (19), WashingtonU (29), JHU (34), Rice (42)</p>
<p>Public: Berkeley (1), UCLA (6), Michigan (8), UTAustin (15), Wisconsin (16), UIUC (17), UNC (22), UVA (36)</p>
<p>Its a very different story for graduate education. These top 8 undergraduate public universities appear picking up their strengths in graduate schools. Berkeley (1), UCLA (6), and Michigan (8), all finished in the top10, are as shining as Princeton (4), Harvard (5), Yale (7), and Cornell (9) (ivies) and MIT (2), Stanford (3), Chicago (10) (non-ivy private) and research strengths among these top 8 institutes for the three category types are about even.</p>
<p>For undergraduate only…</p>
<p>Ivy:
Princeton>Harvard>Yale>Columbia>Brown>Cornell>UPenn>Dartmouth</p>
<p>Non Ivy Private:
Stanford=MIT>UChicago>Duke>Caltech>Williams>Amherst>Northwestern</p>
<p>Public:
Berkeley>Michigan≥UVa>UNC>William and Mary>UCLA>?>?</p>
<p>Ivy </p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Penn</li>
<li>Dartmouth </li>
<li>Cornell</li>
</ol>
<p>Private</p>
<ol>
<li>Claremont McKenna</li>
<li>Pomona</li>
<li>Wesleyan</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>USC </li>
<li>Vassar </li>
<li>Rice </li>
<li>Kenyon</li>
</ol>
<p>Public</p>
<ol>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Cal Berkley </li>
<li>College of William and Mary</li>
<li>Texas
IDC</li>
</ol>
<p>IVY:
H,Y,P,Col,Penn,Dartmouth,Cornell,Brown</p>
<p>Non-Ivy (some of which are better than half of the ivies):
S,M=Chicago, Northwestern=Duke, Williams=Amherts, Rice</p>
<p>Public
Berkeley, Mich=UVA, UCLA, UTA=UNC=Wisc=UIUC, UW=UCSD</p>
<p>You’re all splitting hairs. If, hypothetically, my kids were to get into all of the top 20 universities and the top 20 LAC’s, they’d all provide an excellent education and I’d have them make the decision on personal fit and preference, not out of a belief that any of them are markedly superior to the others - and yes, that would go for HYP as well. At that level, it’s the person who makes the difference, not the school. How geeky to pretend that parsing the data at this level is meaningful.</p>
<p>^ I agree…for undergrad. Graduate school is a different story. Why do you think the NRC spends 10 years ranking grad programs and not undergrad?</p>
<p>For undergraduate, I suggest the following 50 highly selective institutes which meet the following three criteria:</p>
<ol>
<li> Admit rates are less than or equal to 40%.</li>
<li> Yield rates (total admits who enrolled) are greater than or equal to 30%.</li>
<li> SAT (1st 75 % averaged) are greater than or equal to 1400.</li>
</ol>
<p>Institution Admit Rate Total Admits Who Enrolled (Yield) SAT Score Overall
1 Harvard (Mass.) 7% 76% 1590 97.7%
1 Yale (Conn.) 8% 67% 1590 97.7%
3 Princeton (N.J.) 9% 57% 1580 97.4%
4 Stanford (Calif.) 7% 72% 1540 96.4%
5 M.I.T. (Mass.) 10% 64% 1560 96.1%
6 Columbia (N.Y.) 9% 58% 1540 95.4%
7 Dartmouth (N.H.) 12% 53% 1550 95.0%
7 Brown (R.I.) 9% 53% 1540 95.0%
9 U. of Pennsylvania 14% 63% 1520 94.9%
10 Pomona (Calif.) 15% 41% 1560 94.2%
11 California Institute of Technology 13% 37% 1560 94.1%
12 Duke (N.C.) 16% 42% 1540 93.8%
13 Williams (Mass.) 19% 45% 1520 93.4%
14 Amherst (Mass.) 15% 40% 1520 93.3%
14 Cornell (N.Y.) 18% 49% 1500 93.3%
14 Swarthmore (Pa.) 16% 40% 1520 93.3%
17 U. of Chicago 19% 39% 1530 93.2%
18 Bowdoin (Me.) 20% 43% 1510 93.0%
18 Claremont McKenna (Calif.) 17% 43% 1500 93.0%
20 Rice (Tex.) 21% 36% 1530 92.9%
21 Vanderbilt (Tenn.) 18% 41% 1500 92.8%
21 Washington U. in St. Louis 21% 31% 1540 92.8%
23 University of Notre Dame 29% 49% 1500 92.6%
24 Middlebury (Vt.) 17% 42% 1480 92.5%
25 Northwestern (Ill.) 23% 33% 1520 92.3%
25 Johns Hopkins (Md.) 21% 33% 1510 92.3%
27 Washington & Lee (Va.) 19% 38% 1480 92.1%
27 Tufts (Mass.) 24% 36% 1500 92.1%
29 Georgetown (D.C.) 20% 44% 1460 92.0%
30 Wesleyan (Conn.) 21% 34% 1490 91.9%
31 U.C., Berkeley 26% 41% 1460 91.4%
32 Vassar (N.Y.) 24% 37% 1460 91.3%
33 U. of Southern California 24% 33% 1470 91.2%
33 Barnard (N.Y.) 28% 46% 1440 91.2%
35 Carnegie Mellon (Pa.) 33% 30% 1500 91.1%
36 Davidson (N.C.) 30% 41% 1450 90.9%
36 U. of Virginia 32% 46% 1440 90.9%
36 Hamilton (N.Y.) 29% 33% 1470 90.9%
39 Emory (Ga.) 29% 31% 1470 90.8%
40 U.N.C., Chapel Hill 32% 54% 1400 90.6%
41 Colgate (N.Y.) 33% 34% 1460 90.5%
42 New York University 30% 35% 1440 90.3%
42 U.C.L.A. 23% 37% 1410 90.3%
44 College of William and Mary in Virginia 32% 35% 1440 90.2%
45 Grinnell (Iowa) 38% 34% 1450 89.9%
46 Colby (Me.) 34% 34% 1430 89.8%
47 Kenyon (Ohio) 39% 30% 1430 89.2%
48 Connecticut College 32% 30% 1400 89.0%
49 Lehigh (Pa.) 38% 32% 1400 88.8%
50 U of Tulsa 39% 30% 1400 88.6%</p>
<p>What is that last percentage for each school?</p>
<p>^ Subjective scoring based on modelingliao’s criteria weighting.</p>
<p>Ah okay, that makes sense</p>
<p>Ivies:</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale, Princeton
Dartmouth, Columbia, Upenn
Cornell, Brown</p>
<p>Non-Ivies:</p>
<p>Stanford, MIT
Caltech, Duke, Chicago
Northwestern, JHU, WashU</p>
<p>Ivy
Tier 1 (4.9)- Harvard, Yale, Princeton
Tier 2 (4.8 - 4.7)- Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth
Tier 3 (4.6) - UPenn (This shouldn’t be a surprise because its confused with Penn State)</p>
<p>Non-Ivy
Tier 1 (4.9) - Stanford, MIT
Tier 2 (4.8 - 4.7) - Duke, JHU, Georgetown
Tier 3 (4.6) - Caltech, Northwestern, CMU, Berkeley, Notre Dame</p>
<p><a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor[/url]”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor</a></p>
<p>I picked 4.6 as the cutoff because that’s where the lowest ranked Ivy resides.</p>
<p>On February 21, Princeton Review/USATodays Best Value Colleges of 2011 reported the following:</p>
<p>PUBLIC</p>
<ol>
<li>University of Virginia (Charlottesville)</li>
<li>City University of New York - Hunter College (New York, N.Y.)</li>
<li>New College of Florida (Sarasota)</li>
<li>Florida State University (Tallahassee)</li>
<li>University of Colorado-Boulder</li>
<li>State University of New York-Binghamton</li>
<li>University of Georgia (Athens)</li>
<li>Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State</li>
<li>Texas A&M University (College Station)</li>
<li>University of Oklahoma (Norman) </li>
</ol>
<p>PRIVATE</p>
<p>Ivies:
2. Harvard College (Cambridge, Mass.)
4. Princeton University (Princeton, N.J.)
5. Yale University (New Haven, Conn.)
Brown/Columbia/Cornell/Dartmouth/Penn are all out of top 10 in the Private Institutions category.</p>
<p>Non-Ivies:
- Swarthmore College (Swarthmore, Pa.)
- Wesleyan College (Macon, Ga.)
- Williams College (Williamstown, Mass.)
- Rice University (Houston, Texas)
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Cambridge, Mass.)
- Amherst College (Amherst, Mass.)
- Wellesley College (Wellesley, Mass.)</p>