<p>
Then accept now. And later, if USNA extends an appointment, call WP and tell them thanks but no thanks.</p>
<p>Not sure I would recommend that.</p>
<p>I would suggest that you have until May 1st to accept or decline USMA, which means you have at least 3 weeks to go. USMA will not pull back the appointment until that date.</p>
<p>As I have previously posted, USNA, which is traditionally the last to send out offers, is running THAT much behind this year. If USNA is your son’s first choice, then give it until the April 23rd. If you do not hear by that time, send in the acceptance to West Point.</p>
<p>He has an official USMA Admissions representative telling him the following:
</p>
<p>We all know what the rules are. However, he is being told differently. USNA will not withdraw his package if he accepts WP now. WP cannot hold him to a commitment when USNA comes along later with an offer. So, if he is wise, he will follow instructions.</p>
<p>I’m w/ navy2010. I’d wait.</p>
<p>That may be convenient for WP admissions, but IF he has an offer of appointment …AND it were to be rescinded arbitrarily …</p>
<p>Well, 2 things:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>To my knowledge, limited as it may be, and watching this stuff for many moons …it would be an historical 1st. NEVER HAPPENS!</p></li>
<li><p>Read #1. There is NO WAY WP would rescind an offer of appointment absent a recognized situation …quit going to class, became a father/mother, admitted sitting on the Navy side at the 2010 Army-Navy game.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>This is get real time and mombee’s is playing the silliest of “what if” scenarios.</p>
<p>What if we send him to the moon? hmmmmmmmm :D</p>
<p>The answer to this one is simple. Wait until May 1. And if you’e ANY doubt about the truth of this? That’s clear and simple too. Call the WP Admissions office and ask them head-on. I’m confident they will HONOR that which they’ve communicated …100%. </p>
<p>Lord I hate when someone wants to split hairs or wonder how many angels might sit on the head of a pin … 
</p>
<p>And one more thing …THIS is the very LAST thing you should do!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How’s that for honoring a commitment. OY!</p>
<p>
It’s a free country. You are certainly entitled to your opinions no matter how misinformed they might be.</p>
<p>Eackkev, Whistle Pig has been known to disagree with me just for the sake of disagreement. He seems to have some hidden agenda, not necessarily in the best interest of candidates who come here for guidance, for which I am unaware the reason. You have been given a deadline by a representative of the Admissions Dept. Ignore it at your own risk. There is no stigma in changing ones plans if the situation changes after the deadline.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Now that’s 100% accurate, and people can read and figure it out. These are bright folks here, by the very nature of the site, capble of recognizing the thankfully obvious. But this is not about you and me, and our differences. One more attempt to sidetrack the issue. And as always, instead of shooting at others, you are always welcomed and encouraged to address those areas where you believe others have misinformed. And we will do likewise. You keep us busy, for sure.</p>
<p>Stick to the facts, find the higher road, and stay on it. Remember, this is about trying to assist students and parents w/ ACCURATE information, not to show them our amazing grasp of the nuance and legalisms of the Navy and its Academy. And I’ve no mysterious “some hidden agenda.” doo do doo doo …
</p>
<p>And the point again is …I believe you offered questionable counsel. But I’m confident, Eackkev will know in the end, this is way too important to buy your drivel or mine. He’ll call WP and just ask them …Does May 1 response MEAN May 1 response. Simple, easy, truth. And not dependent upon your alleged wisdom or mine.
This simply makes no sense and flies in the face of literally every experience. WHO was the Westpoint rep??? Wasn’t mombee was it? :eek:</p>
<p>I’m with mombee. (those who have fainted, please get up off the floor).</p>
<p>There is no penalty for accepting/securing the WP appointment today and declining it when (if) the USNA appointment arrives. There is no risk with this scenario, none. WP appointment safely in hand, no worries.</p>
<p>He is being told by his MALO that they are oversubscribed and those who accept late may not get in, so why wait? </p>
<p>There is no advantage in waiting until May 1st.</p>
<p>I’m with mombee and Luigi:
- If you don’t get into USNA and you will attend USMA then go ahead and accept your apppointment. At any time up until R-Day you may call them up and say, “Thanks but no thanks, I have changed my mind.” So, you are free to do so even if you receive an appointment to USNA the week prior to I-Day. (not likely but it has happened)</p>
<ol>
<li> You do have until May 1st. HOWEVER - For admissions, they are trying to flush out those who (in their mind) have a better offer and won’t accept the appointment so they can complete the class. For YOU - once you accept you will begin to receive a myriad of paperwork that must be completed, imunizations, physician and dental appointments not to mention that “shopping list” of things to bring. You will also receive further information such as DVD’s and possibly a book to read. All of this is much easier to wade through if you can begin receiving it now rather than mid-May.<br>
The benefit here of accepting West Point now is not simply for the convenience of admissions but for you as well.</li>
</ol>
<p>In its essence this is a reasonable difference of opinions about a very concrete issue …one where only one opinion matters about only one question. </p>
<p>What does the letter tell you? If you have to 01 May …in writing. Then that’s what it means. Make your decision on that, and that alone. </p>
<p>And if you remain unclear. Call the WP admissions office to clarify or confirm.</p>
<p>I have never heard of one instance where West Point “lied” to a candidate. Nor USNA.</p>
<p>You owe no favors to WP admissions and in any case, IF they changed your response date, I am fully confident they’d put it in a written correspondence. Never “he said.” Never.</p>
<p>Think about it. It’s simple and clear. And if it’s not? Call and request clarification. btw …WHO was the WP official. None have offered that yet.</p>
<p>btw, loving to pile on …
WP may piece meal that information requested …USNA does not. Beyond a few late adds, it is batched, i.e. all get it at the same time …in May. WP’s process and “shopping list” of what to bring may be different. There is no “shopping list” to bring anything to USNA unless a pair of sox or skivvies might be deemed a “shopping list.” What do you mean by that? Curious? At USNA, you don’t even need a toothbrush. Just your cellphone and charger. Period. USNA sends all candidates the requests at the same time. So …that would be a bit of a fabrication for USNA.</p>
<p>Eackkev - i’ve sent you a private message</p>
<p>Here’s what was written, precisely what we know …
It is not explained WHO, WHEN, WHERE, HOW, or WHY. Nahda. </p>
<p>But, in a misleading attempt to validate his position, our grizzled Navy man misstates that w/ his own spin, proclaiming…
</p>
<p>Seems mombee’s nose is growing …again. Or still.</p>
<p>And then the coup de grace of fibbing and overstatement, again working to make his point …</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absent insider information …at this point, we simply do not know any of the above. Beyond that some will spin the facts to make their point. And then mombee wonders why he is often in need of correction. :eek:</p>
<p>
As candidates accept their appointments they begin to receive mailings which include DVD’s and information about reporting.<br>
There is indeed a shopping list. Since they teach New Cadets how to march on day 1 - they require that New Cadets show up in their broken in low quarters. They also should procure a pair of the correct boots - since he would be in the Army and rolling in the mud. There are also a few other minor items that are needed to spend a summer along the lovely Hudson that would not ordinarily be needed at the beach in Annapolis. (Do plebes wear flip flops all summer? ;))</p>
<p>While Eackkev officially need not reply until May 1 - there is good reason to reply as soon as possible. If the candidate had two appointments and was undecided - my advice would indeed be to pick one. However, as time marchs on and we move into April the USNA appointment may or may not arrive. If it does come then fantastic! No harm, no foul; simply give a ring up to the Fortress along the Hudson and tell them thanks, but no thanks. The Cavalry arrive and haul him to West Point.</p>
<p>I do think it is okay to give it another week or two.</p>
<p>As far as the conversation with the “West Point representative”. I suspect this came from a MALO or a Field Force Representative. This person was probably called by admissions to follow up with candidates who have received an appointment but not responded. Believe it or not, some will lose interest and take that Harvard acceptance instead and not notify West Point. Since they are rapidly approaching the end, they want to wrap up the class and get decisions as soon as they are known.</p>
<p>Of course, Whistle Pig - I realize the motive for your stubbornnes! You think once Eakkevson starts getting all the lovely mail and attention from West Point he will forget he applied to USNA! ;)</p>
<p>Eackkev - if you are still around, it’s your choice in the end. If your son replies prior to May 1; then his seat will be intact. The sooner the better.</p>
<p>I would suggest reading the paperwork carefully.</p>
<p>Granted, it has been 4+ years now, but seems when our son got his appointment to USMA there was a notation about withdrawing his application to other service academies. We were in the same boat… appointments to USMA and USMMA, and waiting to hear from USNA. What I will add is the pressure he felt from coaches that were calling him on Sundays- like clockwork. After awhile, he didn’t want to answer the phone.</p>
<p>You have until May 1st. USMA will not withdraw an offer until that date. You have a few weeks to sit on this- just don’t sit past the deadline. So to play it safe, make your decision by April 24th, and send your response in return-receipt-requested. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>no, but they do wear really nice boat shoes. And combat boots. And low quarters. For marching. But they are bright enough to multi-task, so while they are learing to march and shoot and run and roll in the mud, they also learn to sail and swim. Flip flops are purely optional!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You’ve nailed me! Of course!! </p>
<p>And 2 other issues …
- No need to succumb to inappropriate pressure. (and if it’s from an coach, that makes it more so, as you’ve well noted. )</p>
<ol>
<li>Honor. Pure and simple. Honor your commitments. If one commits …and that’s what this is about …honor it. Period. </li>
</ol>
<p>Thus, there is absolutely no need to put oneself into the position of renigging (a fancy word for going back on yours) on one’s commitment. Just wait.</p>
<p>But one correction: This is not stubborness. That implies there are simply differences of opinion. This is not that. It’s about misinformation, stretching the facts to fit one’s contentions, and thus passing along poor counsel to one in need.</p>
<p>As noted …
</p>
<p>Now this makes total sense. And in any case …it’s the USNA equivalent of a BGO aka well-intentioned volunteer doing his/her job w/ absolutely great intentions and zero authority …enthusiastically albeit falsely misstating, over-reaching and in the pure sense lying …in order to get the candidate in the WP fold. But I think she’s nailed it. And in any case it’s wrong and incorrect.</p>
<p>NOW, I believe we’re getting to the essential “nub” of this …and thanks to her …the truth. What is it? Ignore the volunteer’s little white lie and wait until there is NO CHOICE.</p>
<p>
Whistle Pig, lets say that Eackkev unwisely adheres to your advice and waits until the May 1 deadline to commit to WP, not having yet heard anything from USNA. The following week, he receives the coveted appointment from USNA which has remained his first choice and his lifetime dream. What should he do?</p>
<p>Navy2010 - there is nothing about withdrawing application. I would agree with withdrawing other appointments.<br>
Whistle Pig -
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HONOR. Quit turning this into something it is not.</p>
<p>So WP - remember that kid a few years back who was accepted off the ND waitlist and turned down his Navy appt. I believe you recall the young man who was subsequently offered a late appointment as a result. Was that May or June?? Never heard you claim that either was dishonorable. Surely they were not.
You take what you have been given and then if you are given another opportunity you re-evaluate. All’s fair in love and war.</p>
<p>
yes and no. The Regional Commanders will often directly communicate with MALO’s at the end of the cycle to communicate with applicants.
I have never heard that a BGO gets specific instruction from admissions to speak with a candidate - but I could be wrong.
Certainly the candidate in question - if still reading - can make an inquiry to admissions to clarify that his seat will indeed be held until May 1st. No problem with that question - it’s a good one.</p>
<p>
Please don’t tell me you spelled this wrong on purpose. The word is reneging. (hint: the second “e” sounds like the “e” in neck)</p>
<p>Navy2010 - my dear, plebe’s don’t learn to march during plebe summer or at all during their tenure on the bay. They learn to walk. New Cadet are expected to already know how to walk. ;)</p>
<p>Hmmmmm:rolleyes: …let’s all play “What if …” and see what scenarios we can contrive that’ll make mombee’s ill-advised advice to make sense? </p>
<p>“Stick with me now. It gets really complicated, but I’m a whiz on USNA minutiae …” 
</p>
<p>“Ok wise sage, but please don’t go too fast. We’re all simpletons, incapable of the simplest of logic exercises, you know.” 
</p>
<p>“I know, but you know I’ve won the “Mombeegeeoh Loving Cup” 5 years running you know!”</p>
<p>“Wow :eek:, that’s cool oh great sage. Who awards that Cup?”</p>
<p>“Well, me, of course. Let’s get going and see how many ‘what if scenarios’ you and I can come up with so we can spend all day together, with me answering them.”</p>
<ol>
<li><p>WHAT IF …a candidate gets an ingrown toenail and can hardly walk on I - Day?:(</p></li>
<li><p>WHAT IF …my Great-great Aunt Twice Removed Opal gets food poisoning from an elderberry pie she made …and I ate 2 pieces the morning of I Day? Do I have to tell the Cadre? If I hurl, can I stay?</p></li>
<li><p>WHAT IF …my prom date discovers she has an STD the morning after the dance, and well, ah …:eek:</p></li>
<li><p>WHAT IF…the sky is falling in my MOC district? :eek: :eek: :eek:</p></li>
</ol>
<p>“Hey, you dumbies are really good at this game of WHAT IF! Let’s get a few more before I commence pontification…”</p>
<p>mombee, the answers to this are 2 fold and clear as bells …dingdong, dingdong…</p>
<p>Cross that bridge when it comes. Tomorrow will have enough worries for itself. Stick to the now, today, the issue. It may be an issue, and it may not. I fully anticipate Eacckev will hear something prior to May 1 and will be able to make the right, timely decision. And if otherwise? Deal with it. </p>
<p>Don’t you think this will work out as it should? Nah, I din’t think so. See #4 above … ;)</p>
<p>
Concur completely. WP utilizes the MALO differently than does USNA with the BGOs. They are more ‘the the loop’ in the process than are BGOs and expected to communicate directives to the candidate. The alleviate some of the duties that USNA expects of the Regional staff.</p>
<p>
You may have stated this partially in jest, but I have no doubt that it is very true. It is simply Phase 2 of the LOA/Early Decision process. Candidates like to feel wanted. It is totally naive to believe that the MALO was a ‘loose cannon’ (Is using a nautical expression to describe an Army event, a derivative of a ‘mixed metaphor’) acting on his own. It is a very savvy evolution, well planned by admissions. A ‘decided’ WP candidate is closer to being in the fold than one awaiting another choice. A savvy candidate will realize that two can play the game and see this as a ‘green light’ or a ‘get out of jail free’ card and utilize it to his advantage.</p>
<p>Let’s look @ this from a different perspective. Eackkev’s concern, posted on 3-24-2010 notes …
</p>
<p>Let’s note …USNA has been notably slow this year, due to 17K candidates, up nearly 50% over 2 seasons. The delays for admissions have been duly noted here. In sum, it seems USNA may be a bit behind.</p>
<p>Even so, traditionally MANY candidates hear in late March and April. And w/ nearly 6 weeks to go until his May 1 deadline, there are MANY out there who’ve not been rejected nor offered appointments. MANY. No reason to panic.</p>
<p>Except for what happened last summer when he failed to accept the WP summer invite in a timely way. And that has understandably put fear in his heart.</p>
<p>And it was complicated by someone …we don’t know who …communicating in an obviously threatening and inappropriate fashion (“…The Westpoint representative recently advised him that they have had more offers than were intended, so if he wants a chair, he would be wise to accept now.”) with the implication clear …your place promised in your letter of appointment might be given to others waiting.</p>
<p>Why would the WP rep do this? It’s clear. He has been given marching orders to get a valid decision from Eackkev. Yes or no. Are you coming? The unstated admissions need is to be able to admit another if E’s answer is no. </p>
<p>So, while unfair and inappropriate, assuming the message was as we are told, Army’s need is understanable and their approach reprehensible, especially coming from a volunteer, authorized or otherwise.</p>
<p>But …and this is the point…Eackkev was advised by several to “accept!” then resign if/when USNA comes calling, and the reasons for that counsel have been explained.
The point is that even an “accept” fails to address what Army’s needs are, in the highly possible event that E gets a USNA offer. </p>
<p>And in fact, it further complicates it according to one who tells us that E will receive a laundry list immediately of things to do and buy in anticipation of his Army matriculation. And further, now the available slot is ever closer to Army i day. So it solves nothing for Army Admissions if it is disingenuous. It COMPLICATES their picture.</p>
<p>Lastly, those boots justmommy told you to buy? Useless on the Yard. ;)</p>
<p>Amazing how feelings and logic get muddled when mommy’s want to coddle.</p>