Need advice from those who have been there

<p>UCSD_UCLA dad,
Thanks for the response. Actually, it is not an assumption about the girlfriend and his desire to see her. This morning we had the following discussion, “Why don’t you want to live in the dorms?” His response, “I don’t know.” I told him that “I don’t know” was not a good response and he needed to do some searching so he could verbalize the real reason. I told him we all have reasons behind our choices. I suggested that if I decide not to drive somewhere,it might be because it is pouring rain. If I decide to buy a used car instead of a new car, it might be because I want to save money. If I decide to buy a blue shirt instead of a red one, it might be because I look better in blue. That was how the conversation went. That was when he admitted that he wanted to see the girlfriend more than on just the weekends. I guess I agree that we should keep the girlfriend out of the discussion. Unfortunately, I am afraid she is telling him on a regular basis how much she would miss him and how great it would be for them to go to Junior College together. Don’t know if that is true, so THAT is an assumption. Thanks.</p>

<p>The workload at SCU may be considerably heavier than he anticipates and adding several hours/day of commute time could push him over. Can the GF drive? If they want to see each other, why can’t SHE make the trip during the week to go & see her perhaps once during the week & he could drive back over the weekend. </p>

<p>If your S allows himself to be that manipulated by the GF & her pleas, you may have MORE problems on your hands than just the one you originally posted. What happens when he falls under the influence of others who want to bend him to their preferences?</p>

<p>^^Reading this thread, I was also wondering why GF couldn’t visit your S? Why is the onus on him, in that relationship, to be the one to do all the traveling?</p>

<p>OP:</p>

<p>You’ve gotten to the bottom of it where the GF is the root of the issue. This is all too common at this point. It’d be nice if he could get his priorities in order and realize he doesn’t have to totally give up the GF to do so but that’ll take some mature and insightful decision making on his part (maybe using those words in a discussion with him will help him). I hope it all works out well for your family and your S.</p>

<p>The community college system is so stressed right now that I think you should not consider it for your son, as long as he has other good options. There are more budget cuts coming, which means more classes cancelled and more student services trimmed. As CSU students can’t get classes on their campuses, they turn to the community colleges to fill in the gaps. Students are increasingly having to attend multiple community colleges to get the classes they need. </p>

<p>I would focus on making Santa Clara work. Leave the commute option open, but try to persuade him to get a dorm room and experience campus life. If both of you are flexible and able to listen to each other, I bet you’ll be able to work out a compromise.</p>

<p>What about this: ask him to live on campus for fall semester, do his best to participate in campus life, but visit with girlfriend often. She can come visit him; he can visit her. Talk about how it’s going at winter break.</p>

<p>You know, back in the day, I chose my college location (greater Boston) partially related to where my BF was going to be (although he was going to school ~ 1 hour away from where I chose). So I get that 18-year olds think this way. </p>

<p>However, I did not make choices that ipso facto compromised the quality or nature of my college experience. The son here is making those kinds of compromises to be near the gf -eg, wanting to commute where that is an outlier choice - to say the least - at the given school; where the commute is onerous; where it would compromise time management and ability to participate in study groups, and generally in campus life. Or, choosing a school that he really doesn’t want to attend - the JC, and where budgetary considerations could affect the quality of his education/ability to transfer in a timely manner.</p>

<p>I know that we need to start allowing our kids to make their own choices. I’m usually a big advocate of that. But you are about to shell out major $$ for this education and as parents, I think you have the right to guide him by setting parameters.</p>

<p>The parameters are that if he goes to SCU, he really goes there and avails himself of the full experience and provides himself with the needed time to succeed. </p>

<p>Someone suggested that you refuse to pay for SCU unless he lives on-campus. I don’t know about that idea. I wonder if you should, alternatively, be unwilling to subsidize the choice of the JC - which he doesn’t really want to attend for academic reasons; he wants to attend for gf reasons. You’re paying for his education and he should be making the choice of where to attend based on educational factors, imo, not based on the gf.</p>

<p>“Statistics show” that bf/gf relationships don’t often survive the first year of college (mine didn’t, lol). It’s nice that you like her, but to have a one-year-ish relationship be the determining factor of not just where a kid goes to school, but whether he really avails himself of the experience… not good imo.</p>

<p>Commuting 2+ hours to college isn’t a great idea.</p>

<p>For my undergrad I went to a rigorous university in a metropolis and had a few friends who lived at home in the burbs and commuted. 8 am classes were hell, absolute hell for all of them. Traffic congestion because of accidents or road works or just because of rush hour resulted in my friends having to do many walks of shame into our 8 am Calc class. Not fun. Being tired and learning Calc, even less fun.</p>

<p>Waking up early enough to reach school comfortably in time for early am classes is not going to happen often enough, in which case your son will probably be either plain groggy or stressed or highly caffeinated. The resulting impaired decision making will compromise his driving especially during morning the rush hour traffic when he needs it.</p>

<p>Similarly, driving home tired in the evening after a stressful/busy day at school isn’t the best idea. An alum from my hs died because he fell asleep at the wheel.</p>

<p>Like someone else said, study groups and group projects are organized at the end of the day after classes, at my university group projects were the bane of a business major’s existence just like long labs were those of a science major’s. Rushing home in the evening is going to make it hard for your son to work on these.</p>

<p>I advocate giving you son the option of commuting for the first couple quarters and then staying on campus for the remainder of the school year to compare both experiences (the complete reverse of some suggestions here). Allowing him to stumble (if at all) because of his own actions by allowing him to commute when the transition to college life is the hardest in the first quarters (In grad school I was shocked by the quarter system: assignments on the second day of classes!) is going to be a humbling experience and he’ll take the lesson to heart. Otherwise, even if he stays on campus during the first few terms, he’s likely to think that commuting to college will be as easy later. Young people are naively optimistic of their abilities.</p>

<p>I hope your son listens to you. Commuting 2+ hours is going to very adversely affect his grades or make him very organized. Only time will tell.</p>

<p>This is a tough one… here are a couple of thoughts:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Have him make this commute (with you) during rush hour, with him driving if you haven’t done that yet. Make sure he knows what he is in for every day.</p></li>
<li><p>Have your confirmed his parking options/expenses for this? Who pays for gas (assuming you already have some deal with him for car maintenance and insurance)?</p></li>
<li><p>Did you say he is going to have to work? How will he find time/where will he work (there or at home) if he is commuting, going to class, and studying (and seeing the GF)? Honestly, he probably won’t see her a lot of days when he is at home because of the commute and if he has a job and homework load.</p></li>
<li><p>Remind him that most close college friendships are made in the dorms, freshman year when everyone is looking for new friends. </p></li>
<li><p>Are there any extracurricular activities he planned to continue in college (club sports, music, etc.)? What is the timing for those, can you find out?</p></li>
<li><p>Tell him that if his relationship with GF can’t withstand a separation where they see each other a couple of weekends a month and over breaks, then it isn’t meant to be anyway.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>In the end, though, I would say let him try it if he insists. I think there are a lot of possibilities for how it could go:</p>

<ul>
<li>He and the GF could break up. By winter break or next summer, he could be ready to change his mind and move to campus. Heck, they could break up by the end of the summer…</li>
<li>He could see that it is harder to do things on campus, join study groups, make close friends based on his first semester experience. Again, he may decide it is better to live on campus.</li>
<li>It could work out for him. He could end up with a degree in four years. He won’t have had the college experience you hoped he will have… but he may have the one he wants.</li>
<li>If in the end he decides the commute is too much AND he still wants to see more of the GF, he may transfer back to JC next year. But he would have a year’s credits at the 4 year school as well, which would add strength to an application at a 4 year school after JC graduation.</li>
<li>I would make it clear to him that any financial burden imposed by the JC move (if he makes it) is his alone, to be made up by loans or work on his part. By that, I mean if he does not get as good a deal as he has on the table now and this all ends up costing more for his 4 year degree, he owns that difference. I would include gas/maintenance/parking in that cost calculation, too.</li>
</ul>

<p>Is there anyway he could take the train? Santa Clara is right on the Cal Train line. That could help the commute in that he could study while commuting.</p>

<p>Otherwise, I agree with most that he should live on campus for at least Freshman year.</p>

<p>I want to return to the fact that the idea of him commuting is not safe. It’s easy to argue about girlfriends and colleges and so on but this situation has a bottom line; it’s simply not a safe and responsible choice. He may be too immature to grasp that but if I was his mother I would explain that it would be equally irresponsible for me to subsidize unsafe behavior. </p>

<p>Can you imagine how you’d feel, let alone your son, if him driving while over-tired (which is what he’ll be doing, no matter what he thinks/says right now) hurt himself or someone else? Driving without enough sleep is like driving drunk. Would you let him have a few beers, then drive back and forth to school? Of course not. </p>

<p>I know it can be very difficult to disappoint our children but this is the time in life when they either step up to the right decision or they have to feel the consequences of that decision. Your son has come up with his “ideal” plan and it’s not only bad, it’s dangerous to him and to others. Perhaps putting it those terms, in the context of not selfishly endangering himself and others because two out of seven days is not enough, in his mind, to see his girlfriend. It’s simply not an option.</p>

<p>Well, this situation has certainly caused a great deal of stress at our house. My husband now feels that we should tell our son that if he wants to choose junior college, he needs to get a job, move out and pay for his own college expenses. That is how strongly he feels about our son not going to junior college and how much he thinks he should live at and go to school at Santa Clara. I could never in a million years take that rigid of a stance and it makes me sick to my stomach to even think like that. I also don’t think he should choose junior college (especially because of a girl) but I have no intention of sabotaging his chance for success at junior college if that is indeed what he opts for. Can’t wait until this is all over. Thanks again for all of your kind and thoughtful responses. I will keep you posted.</p>

<p>Is the girlfriend still going to be in high school or will she also be going to the JC? If she is going to be in high school…and he stays at home…he will be reliving his senior year in high school but while taking classes at the JC. If this is what he wants his college experience to be then…I guess it should be his decision.</p>

<p>I can answer the question about club sports and music activities at SCU. The music groups practice one day in the afternoon and one in the evening. Clubs meet either later in the day or on weekends.</p>

<p>This is what no one ever tells you: Even after all of the stress of applying to college, SATs (or ACTS), APs, ECs, just when one thinks that one is finished with all of that (with the mixed emotions that thought brings), comes April of the senior year! The acceptances are in, and a decision must be made. Emotions run high; teenagers are teenagers, ricocheting from maturity to childishness in an unpredictable way. Adults show their weaknesses also, by becoming more rigid or too accommodating or what not… For our family a few years back, April found us with a senior who had scheduled the month chock full with what, to her, were unbreakable commitments (conferences, performances, etc that she was in or part of planning), leaving little to no time for college visits (or re-visits). One wonderful school had showered the love, including likely letter, but not as much $ as other equally wonderful schools, colleges which would also be good fits. (Which is why she chose to apply; they just did not woo her as well). We wanted her to take seriously the downside of taking on undergrad debt, when she had wonderful choices that would allow her to go with no debt and equal or higher prestige and fit. While she eventually also came to that conclusion, the getting there was, frankly, sometimes quite ugly, fractious, stressful.
We were supposed to be celebrating! I am sure that there are families for whom this whole process goes marvelously smoothly, with no second thoughts, regrets, etc. I also know you are not the only family with some type of MAJOR struggle at this juncture. My sympathies-- and fingers crossed that a good compromise can be made (such as the one night home plus weekends, and perhaps visits by gf to his campus). AND YES, this is a school that gives better FA to freshman than to transfer students…</p>

<p>mamita…well said. we also had a stressful few months which continued through the summer…son wanted one school…we wanted full ride school instate (which he had liked until some other acceptances came in) No great reason why he suddenly “hated” it… arguments, anger, upset, defiance were the mood for about 2 months. In the end, we the parents made the decision…we would have gone back and forth forever with son getting more “fixed” in his stance, and us in ours. Sometimes you just have to say its your decision as the parent
we also considered the idea of a transfer later if he hated it… but really why? the scholarships offered by the other school would be gone so even more difficult to attend…we were just delaying the inevitable.
With only 3 weeks left of his freshman year…it has turned out to be a great fit, has given him everything he said he wanted at the other school and more. He is doing great gpa wise and involved in activities and research… (now he just says… well i’m not staying here for phd LOL although part of his scholarship that he got pays for that too…so we’ll see what HE decides then as then it WILL be his decision)
I guess i’m saying the world wont end if you are the one that makes the decision. Going back and forth would have just prolonged the distress in our case and the result would have been the same.</p>

<p>OP, there seems to be some stress between dad and son. I can understand you H’s desire to have S go to Santa Clara with the beautiful campus, right major, and good merit award. However, if your S doesn’t really buy into these as his own priorities, he could very well sabotage his own first year. Forcing him to do as your H wishes by threats or maneuvers could backfire badly.</p>

<p>I would suggest sticking to your offer. You have generously offered to pay for SC which requires he live on campus, or he can go to the JC with GF and live at home. I see no reason to pull your funding from that course of action, since it will feel punitive and like a threat to a good son who has done nothing more horrible than feel loyalty to the girl he really cares for and wants to please. JC is a very low-cost option for parents anyway. The $40K you save freshman year, alone, can make up for the scholarship $$ he’ll relinquish by passing up SC.</p>

<p>If he isn’t mature enough to disentangle his GF’s needs and his own best interests, perhaps he needs a year at JC wising up, seeing the sacrifice he’s made, and getting a more mature view of his future. Or, he just could be happy at home at the JC with GF and thrive. If he’s leaning towards this choice, I’d recommend you also ask him to get a job and have a GPA goal as well, in order to facilitate transfer options. </p>

<p>Should he stop thriving, whether at JC or SC, you and your disappointed H have every right to withhold paying for further education if you wish.</p>

<p>So he’s going to be a mere hour away, with a car, able to come home every weekend and an occasional weeknight - and he thinks this isn’t close enough?</p>

<p>I know couples who are hundreds or thousands of miles apart and make it work. Skype, texting, cell phones… my daughter’s BF is in China for the semester. Thanks to Skype they’re doing fine, and she would never have dreamed of asking him to pass up that experience!</p>

<p>This is too good of an opportunity for your S to pass up. He needs to go to Santa Clara and “live” there, even if it’s only 4 nights per week. As gently as possible, I’d tell him that if that if he and the GF are that afraid to be apart, then they must not have very much confidence in their relationship! And people who really love each other want the best for each other - they don’t try to hold the other person back.</p>

<p>I think what you have offered your son is a good choice: go to Santa Clara and live on campus, or go to JC and live at home. I know you and your H would much prefer him to go to SC. I hear you on that.</p>

<p>Commuting is impractical, dangerous, and expensive in both time and money.</p>

<p>We’re dealing with a slightly similar situation in that my D’s boyfriend will probably be going to school an hour away from D’s college. I’m afraid she’s going to leave every Friday afternoon to go see her BF and not get back to school until Sunday night, missing out on the weekend social life at her college. Her college is not a commuter campus. So I’m reading this thread with a great deal of interest…</p>

<p>MadBean,
You must be living inside my head, because your post is exactly how I feel right now. Unfortunately, my husband is not on the same page and wants to force the Santa Clara issue. Not sure how we are going to solve this difference of opinion. Lafa, I have told my son on more than one occasion that if he and the girlfriend are meant to be, then a mild separation like this would not break them up. I have also told him that if you truly love someone, you want what is best for them. He always responds that he wants to go to Santa Clara, but just doesn’t want to live there. I think I am getting grayer by the minute!</p>

<p>I agree that the commute isn’t an option. Period. I’d suggest he try living at Santa Clara for the semester. If it doesn’t work out, you can revisit at the end of the term.</p>

<p>OP,</p>

<p>Lots of great advice here. A few things I haven’t seen mentioned:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The cost of commuting may be offset somewhat by not having to pay to live on campus. Point his out to your son to be fair. I would estimate the money necessary for a daily commute (gas/car wear) and make him aware that he would be responsible for any overage incurred by commuting. That is, if you allow it. I’m not so sure that option should be on the table.</p></li>
<li><p>I think it’s time to have you and your son write down on paper the pros and cons of his choices: UCSC on campus, UCSC commute, and JC.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>OK, I was going to write them out but the post became tedious and you can do the writing better than I.</p>

<p>One strong thing in the cons for UCSC w/commuting would be the significant risks of a 2 hour commute with a teenage driver of a serious accident. Certainly his GF would object to putting someone she cared for at such risk. I’m not sure I would allow it just on this issue alone.</p>

<p>Not that I would have heard the advice, but, I would attempt to explain to my son that often times absence makes the heart grow fonder. </p>

<p>The other thought I had was to appeal to the seriousness of their commitment to one another and suggest that the best thing they can do to help their future together is get the best educational experience available to them. Applying themselves to their studies will give them both better opportunities as they move ahead together. To commute would jeopardize those opportunities for your son and possibly make him less able to provide for his future wife/family.</p>

<p>I tend to agree with those that would offer only UCSC w/o commuting or JC. I would fund JC for him if he chose that. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>