Need advice! Ivy league or not?

College Search & Selection
181

@theloniusmonk I make no value judgments regarding Is vs Es and their potential “success” in life–which I certianly don’t define as being a CEO!-- I am simply reporting what I have observed from seeing who seems to get accepted at H and Y from among kids I know, and on observing what I’ve seen of their classmates.

@calmom, I think that it is not clear that the OP’s D is rejecting the idea of “the Ivies” based on any reasonable criteria. She has one friend who is unhappy at Yale. Well, that’s one data point. As we all know, the Ivies have certain things in common, but they are also not a monolith. I think it is a shame for a student who might love Brown or Dartmouth or Cornell to reject the idea of even looking at them because she didn’t like Penn or Columbia.

I am a firm believer in trying to keep one’s options open if at all possible.

@drjmom , if I were you I would draw information from all available sources and assess its value. Don’t reject good advice because you aren’t paying for it. :slight_smile: No one has a lock on these things. Everything depends on the kid in question, the family, and so forth.

182

Thank you everyone for all of your input. I greatly appreciate all the insightful information. Classes are resuming soon so I won’t have time to navigate CC as I have these past few weeks. I wish everyone’s child continued success!! Big thanks!!!

183

Based on everything that has been written on this thread, I’m going to answer your original question: Not.

184

But he wanted to go to Yale, right?

I didn’t say that your daughter can’t get in. She’s got a fractional chance of being admitted.

But your daughter says that she doesn’t want to go to Yale.

And it seems to me that you are hear looking for validation for a parental desire to push her to apply to schools that she already has said she doesn’t want to attend.

If your daughter had her heart set on an Ivy, then I’d tell you to encourage her go to for it – but make sure that she also had a good array of match & safety schools she would be happy to attend.

But that’s not the case. Your daughter apparently has told you that she doesn’t want to apply to or attend an Ivy.

This isn’t a “chance me” thread - but if it were, you’d need to provide a lot more info than you have about your daughter.

It’s not about GPA or test scores. I’m the last person on CC to ever claim that. My D. got into highly selectivereach schools when other students with higher test scoes and GPA’s were turned down. It worked because we had a strategy. We could name the particular niche quality that would make my daughter stand out from other applicants, and we knew which colleges would likely place value on that quality; my daughter was strong in a department that was severely underenrolled at some, but not all, colleges. IPEDS was a big help.

If your daughter has distinctive qualities might make her a particularly attractive candidate to a particular Ivy… then her chances for admission might be enhanced, but you haven’t chosen to share what those qualities might be. And as long as you are referring to “Ivy league” collectively, it suggests that you haven’t done that research – because the Ivies are very different schools. It’s not about what school your friend’s kid got into - he undoubtedly has an entirely different set of interests and strengths .

185

Btw, an essay increasing chances? First, you need a good idea what makes a great essay, to those adcoms (not the hs English teacher.) Then all the rest of the app has to fall into place. That’s more than looking at tge CDS.

I thought the Yale gal developed hair loss.

186

@lookingforward

Different kid. The kid with the essay is “son of a friend.”

I get the sense that OP’s peer group - friends, neighbors, co-workers, include a lot of kids attending Ivies. Not surprising as OP is a college professor. So that’s also the source of the emotional pressure.

@consolation
From the opening post:

Note that “friends” is plural. As is the word “these”.

Then in a later post the OP gives the example of the stressed out girl. It is one example, but no reason to assume that it is the sole example the daughter is drawing from.

I got drawn into this thread when someone posted suggested that the DD look at Barnard with the idea that Barnard women can attend Columbia without the stress of an Ivy. As the parent of a Barnard grad I took issue with that. Barnard was a high-stress environment with highly driven and ambitious students. It was a fit for my DD, but wouldn’t be a good fit for a student hoping for more relaxed college experience.

The OP’s description of her daughter doesn’t suggest the same personality type. I think that the kid probably does have a sense of where she might fit and what she does or doesn’t want in a college. If I’m wrong, so be it – but when my kids were in high school they could easily see the personality type of the kids who were Ivy bound (or Ivy wannabes) – and figure out for themselves how that might translate into the collegiate environment. Ivy admissions is simply structured in a way that weeds out a whole lot of students. If the OP’s daughter’s social circle includes a lot of kids who wouldn’t stand a chance at Ivy admissions, then it might be very natural for to want to opt for a college that draws from a broader base.

187

I was referring to, “guessing he was a good fit for Yale as was our other friend’s daughter.” Previously, it was a Yale gal so stressed. Maybe they know multiple kids at Yale. But the earlier comments that her friends were under such pressure led to my question.

They will make the choices they feel are best, no doubt.

188

My impression was that there are multiple friends with kids at Ivies, not necessarily kids who are friends or peers of OP’s daughter. (Some of the wider circle likely includes older students who attended in previous years) In other words, no particular reason to assume that “our other friend’s daughter” is same person as “her friend, who is at Yale.”

Some of these other kids who attend Ivies might also be legacies. Not that it makes a huge difference these days, but it would be a factor that slightly increases odds of admission.

189

I went back and read the original question again.

@drjmom I would let her apply to the school she likes, along with a bunch of other schools. She doesn’t have to decide now- she has until May 1 and kids change a lot between now and then. She may still like the original school, or she may not. Once she has her acceptances in hand she can visit and decide.

Maybe add Emory?

190

Another aspect : many (I egen saw a study that pointed to “most”) college professors’ kids enroll at elite LACs (or non elite, depending on the student).
The top 50-60 LAC list, including in the Midwest, has awesome possibilities for the academically serious student who wants a relatively low key or laid back atmosphere.

While the same kid who likes Vanderbilt’s relatively conservative atmosphere with influential Greek Life probably wouldn’t like the intellectual, quirky student body at Carleton, there’d be lots of top colleges to match both kids. Not all LACs are intellectual and quirky (think Washington and Lee, McKenna…), not all are laid back… But if you start reading the Fiske guide you’ll find plenty that meet your daughter’s profile.

191

@srk2017 My D17 also noticed and did not like that the different races didn’t mingle at Vanderbilt. She said that in the class she attended at Vanderbilt all the black students sat together. D has only lived in cities that are very diverse and her friends look like a UN contingency. We visited in February 2016 and she was so turned off that she did not apply.

192

re#177:
"I don’t think CC is the place for my daughter to get expert advice. "

Maybe not “expert”, but a lot of second-opinions many of which are informed opinions that can be relevant and useful inputs for your daughter’s college hunt . Of course one has to do filtering of same.

There are a lot of posters here who have done the college drill you are now going through with their own kids. In many cases multiple times. There are only so many schools on the likely radar screen for your kid, and they were the same schools, by and large, that were on the radar screen for their kid(s). These posters already participated in screening these schools, visiting these schools, and deciding on these schools. Of course their focus was on the needs and desires of their own particular customer(s), but in the process they likely gained information that may be relevant to others as well. They come with their own prejudices and life experiences, of course. But so does your counselor who is just one person as opposed to numerous. So just has one set of prejudices , life experiences, and set of opinions.

There are limitations. CC people do not know who is currently getting into what schools, with what credentials and personal qualities, very recently from your daughter’s particular school. They don’t have access to the Naviance information for your daughter’s school, or the feedback from her teachers.They have not spoken with your daughter. They do not know her. They only know what is posted here. Also, they generally won’t screen your daughter’s essays. So I’m not suggesting foregoing a counselor if one has the means, or that counselors are (necessarily) useless. But many CC posters are familiar with this type of information to a more limited extent from the experience with their own kids, and observing their high school cohorts, and can make extrapolations from that which may be reasonable. And they are familiar with the schools.

On the internet you have to decide what weight to give various opinions. That does not mean all expressed opinions are not at least somewhat informed, or completely without truth or value.

There are CC posters who have become college counselors. I’m pretty sure one I know of who still posts actually is a college counselor. (but still, has limited information about your kid).

193

@drjmom I have been following this thread with interest because there was some pressure on my daughter to apply to Ivies because she had the stats to get her application read. She ultimately didn’t apply to any, but even after application deadlines had passed, there was still second guessing on the part of friends and relatives if she should have been more ambitious. I’m still not clear on the motive - ego boost by association, perhaps?

Regarding those top schools, D is not an urban kid so dense city environments were a non-starter. That knocked out a number of options (Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Chicago). She is emphatically not a party/Greek life personality (Dartmouth). She liked Princeton fine and she really, really liked Brown. Had we visited Cornell, I suspect she might have found it too large.

My suggestion is that 1) your daughter not paint Ivies with a broad brush - she just might find one that she likes as they are quite diverse. 2) after doing due diligence, if she’s still not interested, respect her preference and move on to schools that attract her interest. There are so many to choose from.

She sounds very accomplished and I’m sure she’ll end up someplace great.

194

@Testingearly - May be our expectations are different. My experience (from attending 3 different school and living in multiple states across the country) is, most people spend most of their time with their own ethnicity/race. You interact with others as needed basis. Unless there is blatant discrimination, I won’t worry about how students are sitting in a class.

195

@srk2017 - Yes, I think it’s all in the expectations. While I enjoy spending time with many people of my culture, race, and ethnicity, I equally enjoy spending time with those of other cultures, races and ethnicity on a continual and constant – rather than on an “as needed” – basis.

Vandy wasn’t the only school where one can observe segregation and social stratification in dining halls, classrooms, etc. either de facto or by choice. But my D did perceive it there more than at some other places she considered. Like @Testingearly’s D, she is most comfortable with and prefers greater diversity and inclusion. And apparently, they’ve both (hopefully) found it where they are going. :wink:

@Testingearly - did your D apply for any of the ILEs or FroSoCo? My D just found out that she got into SLE, so she’s a happy camper.

(again, sorry for the hijack, but I think the OP has flown the coop anyway)

196

And, in terms of the original topic, in speaking with my D this afternoon, she reminded me that she originally hadn’t been interested in ivies and was pretty much convinced that she wanted an LAC. Over time, she kept tweaking her list and refining her criteria. She ended up applying to Yale SCEA, along with a broad cross-section of LACs and research unis, mainly based on their programs and their potential for merit aid scholarships. Her apps to Stanford, Harvard and Princeton were originally sent in order to find out whether or not she might get some FA offers that would exceed that which Yale had offered. It was only at the (literal) 11th hour that she realized that Stanford was the best overall fit for her (and, thankfully, they did indeed reconsider FA in light of other offers), and Yale and her myriad scholarship possibilities her off the table.

As for CC, I would advise @drjmom and others not to disparage the benefits of this website and its community. Both my daughter and I have found a supportive community and a treasure trove of ideas and information with respect to schools, programs, institutional and outside scholarships, and summer programs – I daresay more than any school or independent counselor could or would have provided. Like everything else on the internet, caveat emptor and YMMV, but don’t underestimate the usefulness of this website and the benefits of being part of this community, warts and all.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to pay it forward and go provide feedback and help edit some kid’s essay.

197

@LoveTheBard - I also enjoy interacting with people of other cultures, races and ethnicity and economic status, but at the same I am being realistic. I am trying to dispel the notion that there is a huge difference in this matter at most colleges.

As per CC, There is lot of good advice but there is also lot of self promotion. You need to figure out who to rely on advice. We didn’t use any college counselor but couple of folks I met on CC helped. As per Ivies, no one knows how they select and lot of people who got in don’t tell the complete story.

198

@lovethebard, did you think she would get in to the other schools (to compare FA) based on admission into Yale, or other info.

199

@LoveTheBard - I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t know what either of the two abbreviations you mentioned stand for. I think you’re asking if she applied for any special housing and the answer is no. I believe you had mentioned that your daughter aplied to casa Zapata. That is awesome that she got what she wanted. Does it mean she already knows who her roommate is? My D wants to be in an all freshman dorm. I believe she will find out about that in the next week or so.

200

@srk2017 - I disagree. I think that there ARE stark differences in how diverse and integrated some environments are as compared to others, both in terms of college campuses, cities, and regions. Perhaps it’s the strong Greek presence at Vandy that might contribute to what some people might perceive as de facto segregation.

Here are a couple tumblr pictures from two of Vandy’s sororities. They don’t look too integrated to me:

http://vandykkg.■■■■■■■■■■/
http://vandytheta.■■■■■■■■■■/

These links came from a CC thread inquiring about diversity at Vanderbilt. Again, as with everything else on CC and elsewhere, YMMV:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/1816939-vanderbilt-diversity-p1.html

@thelonliestmonk - At the time D submitted her RD applications, just after the SCEA results were out, we didn’t have a clue as to whether or no she was going to get in to any – let alone all – of the schools she applied to; her admissions results came as a complete surprise. We are in the proverbial donut hole for FA (Yale offered work-study; we were hoping for more). Until April when she started visiting schools, she was still pretty convinced that she was either going to Yale or go to a school that offered aid (and she was still submitting scholarship applications).

@testingearly - No reason to be embarrassed. I should probably be ashamed that I DO know what they are (it’s probably proof positive of being a helicopter parent) They haven’t announced dorms or roommate assignments. I think dorms are announced on Aug. 11th, and kids don’t meet their roommate until move-in day.

ILE stands for “Individualized Learning Experiences.” of which there are a couple: SLE (Structured Liberal Education - an intensive humanities living/learning program housed at East Flo Mo – Florence Moore College) and ITALIC (Immersive-something-about-the arts – an intensive arts-focused program housed at Burbank). I think there was a science one (SIMILE?) but I don’t know if it still exists.

Both SLE and ITALIC are living-learning programs in which either 1 or 2 4-unit classes each quarter are taken at the residence. My D, a humanities kid, put SLE as her first choice (Casa Zapata was her second choice, I think), so half of her freshman classes will be SLE seminars. She knows that she’ll be in one of three dorms in East Florence Moore, but doesn’t know which one.

FroSoCo (Freshman-Sophomore College) is a living environment for freshmen and sophomores that is by application only. It’s supposed to create an environment with “the most talented students at Stanford and then help them achieve a balance of academic preparation, personal exploration, cultural enrichment, and self-reflection at the highest level.” Kind of a school within a school.

They announced the ILEs yesterday, so that’s how my D knows about SLE. If incoming kids don’t specify a preferred ILE or apply to FroSoCo, they can put a preference for freshman or four-class dorms, which is probably what your daughter (and most freshmen) do.