I agree with @Chembiodad 100%.
I, at least, think it might be, in general, tougher to beat the curve in a class at MIT (#7) than at University of Miami (#47 in my old book).
But what do I know.
I think I can relate. I have a high stat kiddo who feels strongly a small LAC will be the best fit for her. For us merit aid would be welcome as we are full pay. Friends and family members are constantly asking if she is applying to Ivies and think we are crazy for not applying. I get tired of explaining that they are likely not a good fit and not worth 280K. Even the explanation doesn’t stop the barrage of questions.
@Veryapparent , I share your sentiments. To be honest, we are so “toured” our and she said “they are all the same” to which I agree. Need to take a bit of a break. Best of luck to your child!!
The stats tell us that at least 75% of Ivy enrollees have what I would consider “crazy high SATs”.
That is why it is important to consider the student’s areas of interest – as well as the overall offerings of the university. It can also be an argument against a small LAC, no matter how strong the student body – it is why some students prefer lecture-based classes to seminar style courses. (The lecture is dominated by the prof who has a PhD; the seminar is often dominated by near-age peers whose opinions may not be especially intriguing). Boredom is not just a function of academic intellect – sometimes it is a matter of diversity and life experience – so some very capable students might be happier at more diverse campus with students from different walks of life, or with a more artsy student body.
I have three kids.
The kid with the lowest SATs attended the most academically competitive college.
The one with the highest SATs attended one of our state universities. He knew he didn’t want to work that hard.
@monydad, I love it!
Let’s make it simple and look at the average ACT scores from the top-30 universities and LAC’s - you will see both well represented, but HYPSM are not the top-5. If an Ivy is one’s dream, go for it.
- California Institute of Technology 34-35 2 Harvey Mudd College 33-35 3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 33-35 4 Columbia University 32-35 5 Harvard University 32-35 6 Princeton University 32-35 7 Rice University 32-35 8 University of Chicago 32-35 9 Vanderbilt University 32-35 10 Johns Hopkins University 32-34 11 University of Notre Dame 32-34 12 Washington University in St. Louis 32-34 13 Stanford University 31-35 14 Yale University 31-35 15 Amherst College 31-34 16 Brown University 31-34 17 Carnegie Mellon University 31-34 18 Duke University 31-34 19 Haverford College 31-34 20 Northeastern University 31-34 21 Northwestern University 31-34 22 University of Pennsylvania 31-34 23 Williams College 31-34 24 Bowdoin College 31-34 25 Hamilton College 31-33 26 Cooper Union 30-34 27 Cornell University 30-34 28 Dartmouth College 30-34 29 Georgetown University 30-34 30 Pomona College 30-34
^ Isn’t that matriculated? I.e., after admitted students make their choices.
@monydad – I think sometimes the kids who do well on standardized tests get used to things coming easily – they are smart enough to easily coast by in school, so they don’t develop the work habits along the way that would serve them in a more challenging environment. And then the prospect of having to put in extra time and effort studying seems more daunting - as opposed to the option of choosing a college where they can continue the pattern of minimal to moderate effort that has served them well in the past.
Certainly my own kids fit the pattern you described – it is the kid with the 1200 SAT score who graduated summa cum laude from Barnard; whereas my National Merit Scholar ended up with a 3.5 GPA and a degree from a CSU that took him 7 years to complete. It’s not a matter of IQ; it’s about motivation and self-discipline.
@Chembiodad That ranking by ACTs is quite illuminating. It provides a surprisingly different take on things from the more commonly discussed rankings based solely on SATs.
@Chembiodad “Let’s make it simple and look at the average ACT scores from the top-30 universities and LAC’s - you will see both well represented, but HYPSM are not the top-5.”
The reason that HYPSM and the other Ivies are not higher is that they don’t put as much weight on test scores. They put more weight on gpa, extracurriculars, and essays. Some schools do not reject many students with a near-perfect SAT. That is not the case at HYPSM or the rest of the Ivies. A high SAT is a plus, but not nearly enough. They will not hesitate to reject a student if they don’t love the rest of the application.
What @Much2learn is saying is very true. For example a school like Vanderbilt is known for admitting pretty much anyone with a high SAT and not much else going on in order to boost their rankings. Also different schools within the ivy league or even HYPSM have difference priorities and place different emphasis on scores.
Vanderbilt has a 10% admit rate. Somehow I think that means that they require something more than a pulse and a high score to get in.
The ranking is misleading. LACs report superscored ACT scores, whereas the Ivies, Vanderbilt, Berkeley etc, do not.
My daughter ( 99% ACT/SAT, valedictorian) was initially wait listed to Vanderbilt. It takes more than high scores to get in.
Those ACT ranges mean nothing by themselves. I have an S18 with a 34 ACT(35 if a school is reporting superstores) which based on that data would make him admissible to any school in the country. Is that the reality? Absolutely not. What is a “crazy high” test score, anyway? And 6% class rank? Even Pitt wants a 5% for their merit scholarships.
What are the test scores? What is the gpa? What are the ec’s that make her “the most involved in her school?” Nothing has led us to believe that OP’s D has any particular chance at being admitted to an Ivy League school, plus she isn’t interested? We all get emails.
I am really shocked by the traction this thread has gotten.
Crewdad – are you sure that the LACs are reporting ACT superscores? I know many use them for admission purposes, but I assumed they report hard scores.
And pretty much all top schools report superscored SATs, right?
Very high test scores, top 6% in the class, being the most involved student in the school… This obviously describes a very strong student… but it also describes a lot of strong students throughout the country. I am not trying to diminish the OPs daughter…she sounds like a great kid and the OP has every right to be very proud and excited.
My daughter continues to be blown away by the accomplishments of some students she meets… at school and beyond. You don’t realize what’s out there… until you see what’s out there.
I have 2 at Ivies - yes it’s stressful! You should take that into account. But I agree with other parents that this is her choice (money aside) not yours. Girls are tricky bc their confidence level and sense of self worth is very tied up in what moms think of them. I would encourage you to believe in HER - and if she thinks she wants to go for it- why undercut her? Let her visit and apply to any school if SHE wants to. It would be sad for her to end up in a place that doesn’t challnge her academically or intellectually because you didn’t believe she could handle it.