Need advice! Ivy league or not?

College Search & Selection
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Honestly, that’s a waste of an application fee. Unless there is significant information that you haven’t revealed, (which would be understandable, for privacy reasons) – you would probably do better to spend the money that would go to Ivy application fees on state lottery tickets. Perhaps if “the most active student in her school” translates into some significant and sustained leadership positions… then I might be mistaken. But getting into an Ivy isn’t a matter of just dashing off an application – you need to have a clear idea of what the college priorities are, and what the applicant offers that makes her stand out from the others. Why should Harvard or Yale accept your daughter next year over the 95% of applicants they will turn away? Her SAT scores are good enough to get her in the door, but that’s it – beyond that they are meaningless and the ad coms won’t be considering them. (Low SATs at Ivies are bad; high SAT’s are simply typical and expected) And at the Ivy League level, your daughter’s class rank hurts – most of the kids who will get in will be more like top 2%. Nothing to be ashamed of, but it pulls down the number on whatever formula the college uses to factor in GPA & class rank with test scores. Great at the vast majority of colleges your daughter might consider – but below typical expectations for the Ivy applicant pool.

As I’ve noted above, with its 10% admit rate, Vandy is also a big reach - but Vandy is a more attainable reach, and if your daughter likes the school, certainly reasonable for you to encourage.

If your daughter wanted to attend an Ivy, then I could see the value of letting her apply. But if she already has said that she doesn’t want to – why add to her college-application work and stress load? Let your very smart, very active, daughter control the process and apply to schools that she wants to attend.

Your daughter sounds like a great kid with a good head on her shoulders – so please, let her choose where to apply. Show your daughter some respect – if she says she doesn’t want to apply to Ivies - then accept that. Applying to colleges should not be about racking up trophies. As a parent, you will need to guide her to appropriate financial targets (colleges you can afford) – and you certainly have a right to express concerns about geography and distance. But don’t push, nudge, urge or nag your kid to apply to any college she doesn’t want.

And you and your daughter need to focus your attention on the things that you haven’t offered information on here; what are your daughter’s academic interests and strengths? career goals? what kind of collegiate environment does she think she wants? large or small? urban or rural? what kind of social environment?

My kids both really liked the Princeton Review Best Colleges book with its top-20 student-survey based rankings and the two-page spread on each college that gave a good overview of campus and lifestyle issues as well. I know it really helped my son narrow down choices. And I think it’s a much better way of looking at the concept of “best” than the US News linear ranking. It’s more fun to browse through the lists of “best” colleges under topics such as “Best Campus Food”, “Best College Dorms”, “Students Pack the Stadiums”, “Party Schools”, “Stone-Cold Sober Schools”, “Most Beautiful Campus”, “Happiest Students”, etc. And if your daughter ends up attending whichever school ends up #1 on the 2018 list for “Happiest Students” (for 2017 it was Rice) – well, what’s wrong with that?

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@calmom, she has browsed these categories in the Princeton Review. She has been so busy this summer. She qualified for nationals in Speech so she was prepping for that as soon as school ended. Then we did the tours and now she is on vacation with a friend. Hoping that she spends some time to seriously sit down and review things critically before school begins. Glad to hear that your kids liked Princeton Review as well.

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Your daughter sounds like she is a wonderful and highly accomplished young woman. I’m sure she will find a college where her talents will be very much appreciated – and where she can also feel confident and at home.

I’d add one more thing: when kids offer up a reason why they don’t like or want a particular college, it often is only a tip-of-the-iceberg reason, or a rationalization offered that seems plausible – that reflects deeper gut level or emotional concerns. There could be many reasons why your daughter has no interest in applying to Ivy League schools beyond the “too much stress” explanation that she has given you. So no point in debating those details.

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@calmom, your post #135 is excellent and wise.

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@drjmom - How did your daughter like the U of Michigan visit? Did it help narrow down any choices at all? Does she seem to want a university that large?

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@elena13 , she said it was fine. She ran into some kids she knew at the tour and one who was there for new student orientation. I think that made it feel less overwhelming. She sat w a boy from one of her AP classes during her visit so there was some familiarity. Frankly, she said that all the tours seem the same. She did like the campus. We shall see:). Thank you for asking

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@drjmom That sounds good. The whole process is overwhelming and there is no right way to do it. She may just take longer to figure out what she wants and might not have a clear idea until the end and goes on some accepted student visits. Also, not having super strong opinions about the colleges may be a good thing. Maybe she is adaptable and could do well at a variety of schools. Some kids with very clear ideas about what they want are sometimes very disappointed when things don’t work out that way. We just went through the process this past year and after some visits my D felt that she really wanted a smaller school, but she knew she had to be open to our state flagship for financial reasons. She was able to come around to seeing the good things about the large school and being in the honors program, and I knew she could make the best of any situation. In the end, it worked out for her to go to a great LAC and we leave in a couple of weeks. 15 hours away. :(( Yikes! Sounds like you have a great kid and things will work out well for her. Hang in there.

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@elena13 , I5 hours away would be so hard for me! Where did your daughter end up deciding to go? Does she know what she wants to study? My daughter is not fixated on any school. She is very kind and humble. She will figure it out. Our friend’s son is going to ND. Our neighbor is a major funder and board member at ND. My daughter is not interested in ND. Not sure why. I wish your daughter a lot of happiness on her new journey. Is she your first child going away? It is so hard to imagine, right?

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As you know, she should have some reaches, matches and safeties, all that she would be happy to attend.

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@drjmom - Yes, she is my first to go to college and she is heading to Vassar College. I am panicking about her being so far and how everything will go (and the finances) but I do think it will be a great experience for her. She will study English/creative writing and political science. But their flexible curriculum will allow her to explore a lot of subjects and she is looking forward to continuing her involvement in theater. This part of parenting sure is stressful but I agree with you that our daughters will figure it out.

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@elena13 , best wishes to her at Vassar and you at home! I am sure you will be missing her:( And, she will surely miss home as well!

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@drjmom, ironically, it sounds as if your D is exactly the kind of kid that H and Y want: top students who are real go-getters. The BMOC kind of kid. She certainly has the SATs. Her class rank is rather ffy, though.

They don’t tend to favor intellectual introverts, LOL, although of course they have some. Other super schools are less focused on the outgoing, successful types, though. It sounds as if your D should really look at top LACs. If she wants to stay in the midwest, Carleton, Macalester, and St Olaf are just a few to consider.

I am sorry that I reacted too harshly to your original posts. I never thought that you were being untruthful, I thought that you were significantly misinterpreting the situation. And I still think so. I gather that you have absorbed the information given here, and realize that contacts to you or your D are not perhaps as indicative of favor as you did originally.

Believe me, I wish your D the best.

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@Consolation , thank you for the post. I have no idea where she will apply or be accepted. She is at a very large school and her ranking is in the top 6% as many of the other students ranked higher have taken less challenging courses. Nevertheless, she did not work to her capacity last year. She had a great deal of frustration with cheer and was very focused on Speech. No excuses, but she is just a kid and had to deal with a great deal. Her GPA remains high but could have been even higher had she worked a bit harder. As a female and minority, my guess is she may have an edge over other students (no clue if that is true, but just my thoughts). She never studied for her SAT. In fact, she cheered the night before and I was concerned. She was taking it as a practice run but then did exceptionally well.

I have met with the college counselor (cost is crazy!) but she thinks based on my daughter’s GPA, AP courses, SAT scores, and extracurriculars, she should apply at Ivies, hope for small Ivies, and know she can get into her safe schools. We will see. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that she is happy and thriving. Thank you for your best wishes.

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@drjmom, being female is unlikely to help her at all, quite the reverse, unless possibly she is into engineering. But I seem to recall that you said she was into the humanities? Being a minority may help if she is an URM (African American, Native American, Latinx, some Asian subgroups, such as Hmong or Pacific Islander, maybe) but probably not if she is an ORM (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian or Pakistani).

It sounds as if you have hired a private counselor? Probably an excellent idea. I think that the most important thing is for your D to keep and open mind and keep her options open. The only school she is sure not to attend is the one she doesn’t apply to. Don’t forget that she doesn’t have to make up her mind until May 1st of her senior year, and maybe not even then, given wait lists! :slight_smile:

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Why isn’t anyone willing to listen to what your daughter says she wants?

From what you have posted, your DD has very clearly indicated that she does not want to apply to Ivy schools. That should be the end of if.

If you are going to use a private college counselor, then choose one who will spend time listening to your daughter and guiding her to a college that fits your daughters preferences and goals.

You still haven’t posted anything about your d’s academic interests, or long term academic or career goals. You don’t have to, but that’s generally a good starting point for a college search. It’s also ok if your daughter is undecided and doesn’t have a clue what she wants to major in, but that in itself is important in terms of college choice.

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She is undecided w future career but loves English. The counselor was listening and made suggestion of non-Ivy schools which would likely fit her. She has not metcw my D yet as my D is on vacation. They will meet, in person, next week

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Originally you asked if it was okay not to apply to Ivies, or even the highest ranked school she could get into. YES. That’s fine. Some kids like really big schools, others tiny and that rules out whole classes of schools. I never really understand how the same kid who wants Dartmouth also would be happy at Penn, but every year we see a string of kids who applied to all 8 Ivies because they want the best, whatever that is.

It’s all okay. If she wants to go to school with her friends, or at least a handful of them, she should do that. If she wants to go to a tiny tiny LAC, great. A school with a big marching band? Fantastic. There are lots of kids at any flagship with perfect SAT scores and top of their class. Kids at the top of my daughters’ class mostly went to the flagships, but kids a little farther down went to MIT, Navy, Alabama, Ithica - wherever they wanted.

I have two kids. One was just an average student stat-wise, but she really is the better student, the curious reader, the one who wants to debate the difference between 17th and 19th century art, the religious aspects of it, and why why why it makes a difference. She would have been great at an LAC, but had no hope of getting in. Her sister couldn’t care less about art, history, what language something was written in, or why it should matter. The LAC’s wanted her, she didn’t want them. She’s a STEM girl.

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“Why isn’t anyone willing to listen to what your daughter says she wants?” Lol. Because so many think it’s either a crapshoot or the kid’s high school standing makes them a sure thing. Too many forget all that comes in-between. That’s the match and the fit (from the college’s perspective,) and the institutional needs.

But maybe I misunderstand: the counselor listened to your D, but has not yet met her? They spoke by phone?

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@drjmom My daughter had no interest in applying to the Ivies- she was nervous about the pressure. And… she got off the WL at Vanderbilt and turned it down- she realized it was not for her. So… She does not attend the highest ranking school that she applied to - that would have been Vanderbilt - but she does attend an outstanding public university and is very happy. She has what she wanted in a school and when I ask about the academics she tells me she has the perfect balance. She works very hard and does well, yet she is able to be involved and do things she enjoys doing without feeling overly stressed ( she still feels stressed sometimes when she goes out but is getting better at dealing with this).

I guess what I am trying to say is that your D will find her place at the schools she likes.

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@twogirls , at the end of the day, that is what is most important. That is, our kids being happy and thriving at the university of their choice. I am happy to hear your daughter is doing well. Do you recall why she was not interested in Vanderbilt?