Need advise from other Parents

Parents Forum
41

<p>I don’t see a problem in double depositing if the colleges don’t say anything about not doing it and your high school has no rules against it. Colleges know that it happens and expect it to some degree, including it in their “summer melt” numbers. I actually called some schools and asked about that and though no one likes it, there are no repercussions unless the school specifically says that you should not do it. In such cases, the possible consequences are spelled out pretty clearly. CMU, I know, is a school that will drop you if they find out you double deposited. </p>

<p>My kids did not equate selectivity, reputation, glitz factor when placing schools in the order that they liked them. Two turned down ivies for “lesser” schools, if you want to put it that way. We always get a puzzled look when we tell people where my son is going to school. But he chose the school, loves the school, and is excelling there beyond expectations. Yeah, my ego was and is a little bruised that he is not at the ivy. I would love to have that as a brag item, but, it really came down to his decision.</p>

<p>The oldest picked a school that was not a good match, nor was it a good experience for him. I don’t think it would have mattered if he had gone to the ivy instead. I am glad he made the choice because at least he knows it was HIS choice and we did not push him into going to other schools that we preferred for him. It’s just human nature to use any excuse as a scape goat for failure, and kids can be a master at torturing parents this way. He had to take this one on the chin himself. </p>

<p>Financials also did not enter the picture except in terms of what we could manage. Our son currently in college could be making money going to school had he picked the best offer. This school was a bit below the midpoint in what it offered him, and we expect that we or he will have to take loans before all of this is done. Some school, however, did not offer him a dime, and those were not even considered as a $50K+ tab was just more than we could handle. We put a financial ceiling including loans for him and for us and came up with $35K as what we could afford if we were careful, and maybe stretching to $40k if he really wanted the school. We are slightly below the target cost at present but only because of some unexpected one time scholarships and awards he got. But, he did get another one this year for his junior year. He is doing that well, so how can I argue that he made the wrong choice despite the fact that no one knows his school around here and think that he’s going to a small, non flagship state school?</p>

42

<p>Although I don’t have any compunction about double depositing unless a school involved says it is against their rules, I will tell you that one big disadvantage of doing that is that you can be doing this tortuous dance all summer. If you had made your decision on the due date, that would be it. It doesn’t do any good to prolong this indecision and agony. There are some cases when double depositing is the best option but just not being able to decide is a very poor reason to do so. It also does not help the student in being able to make a decision in a timely manner and living by it, which is important. Many of us, including myself, tend to spoil our kids (we are fortunate to be able to do this), but this sort of thing is not doing them any favor.</p>

43

<p>Just a comment on the double depositing issue - I am firmly against it - but what is done is done. My suggestion to OP is that once D decides which of the 2 schools she will attend - to simply write a letter to Admissions at the other college saying you are not going to be attending and are forfeiting the deposit as you have gotten off the WL at your first choice school. Yes, it is a fib, but given the circumstances, I would do that rather than admit to double depositing.</p>

44

<p>You don’t have to lie. Nor do you have to tell any school why you are not attending. You don’t even have to tell them you are not attending unless you want the housing deposit back which some schools will do. It’s a courtesy to let them know but it is not required. Every year, many schools find that students they expected did not appear. </p>

<p>There are some schools that do not really care if you tell them you double deposited. I know many kids who did. I think it is just prolonging the misery for the family this way unless there is truly an outstanding reason to do this, but there is no rule against it at most schools. They would certainly stipulate this in their acceptance contract if that is the case.</p>

<p>Now if the OP or anyone signed a contract saying that this is the only college they are attending, that is a whole other thing. Some schools do make that clear. Also some high schools do not permit their students to do this. They can’t enforce it, however, but it is often a stipulation signed by the student, and such things should be honored.</p>

45

<p>Concerning the double deposit, I would set a deadline of a week or two for the decision, and tell you daughter that by double depositing, it is possible some other student is not able to go to one of the schools at the moment, but will be able to once she gets off their roster. So, the proper thing, morally, so to speak, would be to decide as quickly as possible. </p>

<p>The best decision for a motivated student is obvious. Both from a financial point of view (and for a new grad $8,000 is a lot: why can your husband afford a new car for her but not the loan?) and academic, and probably even social (assuming higher motivation levels at the better school, if that is true).</p>

<p>I don’t mean to offend but honestly your daughter sounds a little immature, and too dependent on others. It is understandable to have some anxiety about going to college, but getting this from friends seems almost middle school-ish. I wish she would stand up to them, and stand up for herself, and show some determination. If that is not in her personality, or if she needs to grow into more confidence, then maybe the lesser school would be better.</p>

<p>Many kids have relationships at this age that color decisions, and many of them break up within months. I hate to see a female this young already basing a decision on a boy. Her consciousness needs to be raised! My son and girlfriend have kept their relationship going throughout college and post-grad years- at a great distance (across the country) because they each honor what the other needs to do for their lives and careers at this time.</p>

<p>It is impossible to say, without knowing your daughter, whether it is possible for her to make a good decision. It would seem as if she is making a bad decision for bad reasons, honestly, due to a lack of confidence, fear, and dependence on the opinion of friends and dependence on a boyfriend. Too bad.</p>

<p>I would take her to the better school and have her talk to a dean or adviser, someone in admissions, some person who can officially assuage her fears. I would push, for one more week, then let it go.</p>

<p>Big schools have ways to break themselves up into smaller schools. One of the state universities I have taken classes in, that had a reputation for big classes, actually had a lot of very small discussion-based classes.</p>

<p>It is impossible to make decisions like this in the abstract. Your daughter could probably have benefited from a day at the schools, something like that, to see how things really are, versus what her friends have said. Even spending the night. But the schools are probably out by now.</p>

<p>It does sound as if she is determined to go to the “lesser” but more expensive school. If that is really the case, then she should tell the other school asap, so that someone else can go there and have the opportunities that she apparently does not care about.</p>

<p>Again, I don’t mean to offend. Your daughter will grow at either school, and become stronger, more confident and less dependent. Many students lack confidence at this time of transition, and it is okay to be safe, and comfy, it that is what her temperament needs.</p>

<p>It will cost more, and do less for her after graduation, but the “lesser” school may actually be a better fit for her needs. It is just frustrating and hard to read about the situation! I wish she would see the light and choose the more challenging path.</p>

<p>You will regret it if you don’t do all you can do to convince her. Take her to the school again. Forget the bribes. Let her get more information by actually being on campus, then ask her to decide quickly. Good luck.</p>

46

<p>Can you schedule another campus visit back to both schools so she can see and compare while being in the environment of each?</p>

47

<p>Who is telling her that she won’t be able to do the work at the reach school? Students who couldn’t get accepted? Sounds like a case of sour grapes.</p>

<p>She should take the advice from her peers with a grain of salt, they have nothing to base their “advice” on. She would not have been accepted if she couldn’t do the work, admin counselors don’t accept kids that will fail, it doesn’t look good for their stats.</p>

<p>I think the idea of going to the school again (although you can’t really tell them why you’re visiting) is a great one. Are there any new student orientations you could attend?</p>

48

<p>Hey guys…just a little clarifying here…I said a car, not a “new” car. There is a big difference as I am driving an old van with a transmission going out that i cannot fix, and a truck that we are borrowing from my sister-in-law. She tried to give it to us, but hubby is too proud. As it is she is 18 with no license as I could not come up with $450 for her to do the driving part of drivers ed.
The double deposit issue, this was way back in March when decisions from schools came in. Frankly at the time, had I had the money, I would have sent to all schools not knowing otherwise. Luckily I made her narrow it down to 2. Not until finding this site and reading did I realize that it may be improper in some way. There was no early admissions, no contracts signed other than the signature with the deposit.
As for her maturity level, it is, at times, on the low end. I think her biggest problem is location. School B is one hour from home, and some of her other friends going to college. School A is 3 hours in the opposite direction. She is not having a problem at the moment with her choice, I am.
I know if in the end she goes to school B she will do very well. I just think that down the road she will regret giving up the opportunities at School A. She is thinking with her heart at the moment, not her head. I truely think she is only using the naysyaers as an excuse, she has never listened to them b4.
I am going to try to do another visit at School A, as I was not able to take her the first time. It is hard for me to gage what she is thinking and feeling if I am not there. If I could take her and see that it really was not a god fit for her I could give up on this knowing she was making the right choice.
I am giving it til the end of the month and we will see what happens.
Thankyou all again for your advise I do appreciate it.</p>

49

<p>Praise the boy right out of your house. Talk to your daughter about feelings of safety and accomplishments, praise the boyfriend for wanting to put himself in between her and the rest of the world, praise his attention to her, although it is a bit too bad she will not have time for other friends, praise him from wanting to protect her from school B - where I take it he has not applied or not been accepted. Stress that school B obviously thinks she can do this and they are in the business of knowing it, and praise boyfriend and other friends for having superior knowledge than the admittance department of school B.’
There is a big difference between being one hour away without a car and three hour with a car.<br>
By all means go another time to see school B and make it a festive and safe trip. Make an appointment with some student representative, talk to admittance and explain your daughter is a bit afraid and who would be a good person to visit/meet with.</p>

<p>Praise boyfriend again and praise him for making himself feel safe by keeping his girlfriend around. that’s so adorable and you would do it too, or perhaps you’d like to try something a little bit else mmmmm if it was up to you? Nah, it’s up to the boyfriend who really knows what’s best for her and who surely also has an answer to her financial predicaments. Such a clever boy.</p>

<p>Sometimes praise is the best attack.</p>

50

<p>of course I meant for her to look at school A not B - got things reversed - sorry -</p>

51

<p>

You’re scary! :D</p>

52

<p>Kjmom2010 - have your daughter draw up 2 columns on a piece of paper. On one side list only pro and con FACTS and on the other side list only pro and con emotions. Sometimes this helps me to see things more objectively and it makes me realize how difficult it is to separate the two.</p>

53

<p>I would ask her to imagine this scenario: how would she feel if she attended school B and broke up with boyfriend immediately? It happens. Would she resent his advice? Allow her to play out all the scenarios in her mind.</p>

<p>If she still prefers school B I would support her decision. If she feels she is not ready to go to school A maybe she isn’t.</p>

<p>I want to comment on Calmom’s post. My D attended the same college as calmom’s daughter without quite the same academic success. She did nicely, but nothing like calmom describes. Some differences in achievement might be attributed to majors, but not most. Calmom’s daughter is just more successful at academics than my D. But the point I want to make is that my D DID DO ALL HER READING. She just wanted able to get into that A group in many of her classes. She graduated with a solid B+ average, so I have no complaints (it is a hard school), but not everyone can achieve the success calmom’s daughter did. I say hats off to her. I am just being truthful from my experience.</p>

<p>My S is at a school that is a super reach for most. Sometimes I do wish he’d gone to an easier school. The grading (two or three A’s per class at most) can discourage him and make him feel not as smart as he really is. When he took a course at the local state u and got an A+ for work that he said would earn him a C at his school (only because very, very little was asked of him) he got a bit of a perspective.</p>

<p>I think Consolation is a wise, brilliant woman but I don’t think the hardest school you have been accepted to is the best philosophy for everyone.</p>

<p>That said, both my kids adored their schools despite their B+ GPA’s and wouldn’t have attended anywhere else. However, I can say that my S felt safer attending his super competitive LAC that is small and closer to home than his other really attractive choice, a large university, also super competitive, further from home.</p>

<p>I would take her back to school A and see if she can renew that excitement.</p>

<p>As for double depositing – tell the truth, that you didn’t know it was a no-no. I think that will be okay. But yes, but all means, she should decide soon to free the spot for someone else.</p>

54

<p>Visit both schools once more. Classes are over so she can take her time visiting the dorms, research labs, and other places she is interested in. She probably views both schools differently than when she last visited each of them.</p>

<p>I see this as a win-win situation for both her and for you. She won’t be graduating with a ton of debt after four years and she has a good choice to make. </p>

<p>It is well worth taking the time to spend a day or two visiting both campuses. I’d ask for time off from work. Too bad we don’t know which two schools they are. Good Luck!</p>

55

<p>I just want to clarify (in response to Mythmom’s post) – I was not trying to say that it was easy for my daughter to get top grades at her reach school just by doing the reading – I thought I made clear that she had to work diligently. I’d note that her school required a high volume of reading – so just keeping up required a lot of discipline. </p>

<p>My point was that once she got to the college, the fact that it had been a “reach” was no longer that significant. There were some students who were amazing, brilliant and capable – but not nearly as many as she had anticipated. Many who probably were quite capable chose to focus their energies on their social life rather than their academics - whereas my d. was ready to put her social life on hold and work very hard in her classes. That dichotomy between fun and hard work was one that both my d. and I were very aware off, and I saw some changes in my daughter that were part of her maturation process but were a little hard for me as a parent to get used to. </p>

<p>I also mentioned that my daughter was very proactive about seeking help. Whenever she seemed to have any sort of difficulty in a class, she was in a study group, regularly attending TA recitations, and meeting directly with the prof for office hours. That’s why I said personality has a lot to do with it. My d. is the type who will put in extra effort whether or not she likes a class or is interested in the subject – she was willing to stay up at 3 am doing problem sets in math & science classes that she was enrolled in solely to meet distribution requirements. I have a son who would have done the bare minimum in any class that didn’t catch his interest, or where he didn’t like the prof. So when he was at a school with very high academic standards, his grades were all over the map – he had A’s in some of the toughest courses, but let things slide completely in classes that should have been easier for him. </p>

<p>The point is: the reach vs. safety thing depends a lot on the kid’s attitude and aspirations. Everyone who knows my kids would characterize my daughter as ambitious and my son as laid-back. It probably would have been a terrible mistake for my own daughter to give in to doubts or to have chosen the safety located 2 blocks from her boyfriend’s college – but my son excelled at a clear safety, because it gave him the opportunity to focus his attention intensely on his areas of interest, including work & and internship, and at the same time complete all required academics without undue stress. </p>

<p>So the OP really needs to consider the “fit” criteria. I wanted to give a clear picture because she said her daughter was shy – but I don’t know if that means the d. lacks confidence or is merely an introvert who would not be at all bothered by the prospect of spending hours by herself in her room or library reading and studying. The OP knows her d. best. </p>

<p>I agree with everyone who says that a second visit makes sense.</p>

56

<p>

And your DD is considering going to the school which will cost her (and you) more?? What would she say/do if you just said you couldn’t afford it (which it appears you can’t)?</p>

57

<p>OK I have an update…So today I took D to her boyfriends so she could go to his graduation and I could meet his parents. Me and his mother got into a conversation about his plans. His plans apparently have changed due to an FA issue. Anywho, I brought up D’s issues with the schools and she told her she should go to school A and D folded and said she was seriously considering it! I seriously almost cried right there. I did cry all the way home because I know know that D will choose school A. If things go the way I think they will, I will be calling school B by the end of this coming week and telling them she will not be attending.
I would like to say that I do not think the boyfriend knew about the offers school A was giving her as she didn’t even tell her best friend. I think the firsat he knew about it was today. I think the fact that he will be the same distance from either school did tip the scales for her.
Calmom I do understand what you were trying to say. D is shy, but when she has been out of her comfort zone has always done well. Part of it is the smalll town thing and not having to be that outgoing. She has been to some college programs staying on campus, and not knowing anyone and did very well.
D is the type who will stay up til 3 to get things done, doesn’t mind doing school work instead of other things, but has not always used all of the resources at her disposal. I think if she needs to though she will find the courage to do what she needs to do in order to succeeed. She likes getting good grades and likes a challenge. This is why all of the things she was saying to me didn’t make any sense.
I will say that her maturity is an issue, but she is line with all the other kids here in this little town. I think there is a definite difference in “city” kids and “country” kids. But knowing this kid I think she will mature rather quickly.
Thank you all for your advise. I will keep you posted!</p>

58

<p>That’s great news and I think your daughter will do well. She probably will be out of her comfort zone at the beginning – but I think down the line she will be very happy that she has chosen the more challenging environment.</p>

<p>One thing I learned with my son is that when looking at fit, you have to look beyond the best fit for the 18 year old going off to college, and think about the fit for the 20 year-old junior as well. It’s hard to see the future, but a college needs to also provide room for growth. My son’s first college didn’t give him that – and that was just one more factor that weighed in favor of quitting school after his sophomore year. </p>

<p>My daughter felt that her freshman year at college was a tough adjustment for her – but she was much more confident and happy her sophomore year. Junior year was rough again, largely because of an unfavorable housing assignment – and that played a huge part in her decision to study abroad in the spring. Senior year she was back in her own element again. So there may be ups and downs… but the point is that it is a time for growth.</p>

<p>My d. also had a boyfriend from high school that she was very serious about – and for the first 3 years of college they spent every other weekend commuting one way or another to visit each other. I felt that this cut into her social life and is part of the reason she had a tough social adjustment her freshman year – she was spending too much time with the boyfriend and not enough time focused on making new friends – but there wasn’t much I could do. The relationship broke off the summer after her junior year, and he was so angry & hurt that they have had no contact since then, plus most of his friends also cut off contact with my d. I wish high school seniors could see the tenuous nature of their relationship – no matter how much in love they think they are at 18, in most cases those teenage romances won’t last. But there’s no reasoning with a kid when it comes to their love life. </p>

<p>I do think that both partners should really maximize their educational opportunities – if the relationship does stand the test of time, then they will have a better foundation for the rest of their life that way. (Better earning capacity, etc.). In any case, it sounds like your d’s boyfriend’s mom has turned out to be a good voice of reason. Also, the involvement of the boyfriend in her life may turn out to be a positive as she moves to her next challenge – even if they are separated, they are still available to one another by phone, and can provide emotional support at a distance when it is needed most. </p>

<p>The flip side of the coin is that my daughter got to experience life in two separate college communities in different cities, rather than just one – so as inconvenient as the monthly trek to boyfriend’s college was, it did have its benefits.</p>

59

<p>Hurrah! And hurrah for BF’s mom!! Sounds as if she had her head screwed on right, and so does her son. Interesting that your D gravitated toward a family that wasn’t among the naysayers. :)</p>

60

<p>Maybe the reason she likes the boyfriend is that he respects and supports her?</p>