<p>I'd like other parent perspectives on this if possible.</p>
<p>D is a fairly good student, better than most at her school, not as great as many on CC.</p>
<p>Her academic index puts her in the blue (very??) competitive range and she's a national merit semi-finalist, writes well, fairly decent EC's.</p>
<p>She has applied to two safety universities and has been admitted to both. Should I just leave her alone and let her pick between those two? Or do I suggest that maybe she'd be more challenged where her stats weren't in the top 5% of the schools for which she is "settling"? I l know most students reading this thread would say leave her alone. But I'd like to know if any other parents have found themselves in this situation, or if any of you have any thoughts to contribute.</p>
<p>I really want her to be happy, and to know that I support her. But I worry that since she gets frustrated at times with the lack of enthusiasm that many of her fellow high school students show in high school subjects she might feel the same at a university where this could happen. Does that make sense??</p>
<p>I would suggest you check out the First year students thread, there is a parent who wrote about their child attending their safety and feeling challenged by it.</p>
<p>You still haven't heard from Plan II, right? That would be sufficient challenge. As a parent, I think I would encourage your daughter to at least apply to one or two of the very selective schools, so that when the spring comes she wll have a choice. A lot can happen to her thinking between now and then. Karen</p>
<p>What are her career goals? Will a more selective university help her achieve those in some way? Will being surrounded by more high-achieving classmates be a plus or minus for your D? It sounds like you are thinking it would be a plus.</p>
<p>My rule of thumb is that, within the bounds of what you can afford to pay for, go to the best school you can get into that meets your needs. And keep in mind that there are many factors beyond selectivity that can modify the definition of "best".</p>
<p>My daughter is a junior and is just really beginning her college search. So far the three schools she likes the best would all be considered safeties for her. To be honest, I have no problem with this. She decided to look at the schools and go to the info sessions based on information she read and heard. She didn't realize, at the time, that her stats were very good for these schools. She likes the course offerings, the campuses, the locations, and the "feel" of all three of these schools. If she goes to any of these schools, it would be fine with us. Of course, a lot can change in a year and that is when her application process will be over!</p>
<p>Islandmom: I agree with coureur's ROT...all other things being equal (family situation, finances, course offerings), go for the best school that she will be happy and thrive at. I'd suggest applying to 1-2 reaches, and 1-2 matches, just for fun. That way you might get lucky and have the opportunity to tour 3-4 schools in the spring, and let D make an informed decision.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the thoughtful responses. I'll check out the thread, Celebrian, thanks for the tip.</p>
<p>We're still waiting on Plan II. Of course, if she were accepted to that I wouldn't be worried at all about challenges. But I think that Plan II may be a long shot for her.</p>
<p>As far as her career goals, she's the big Undecided. She loves literature and reading and writing. AP English and Humanities are currently her favorite classes and she show great enthusiasm for them. But who knows what she'll like after that first year away. I just want her feel inspired by the people around her, not frustrated like she often is now. I actually think she'd make a great college professor, but that's me.</p>
<p>At one of her safeties (the one where she's really a top applicant) they have four honors programs and she would be automatically accepted into three of them and would be a good candidate for the fourth program. So if she were actually to take the initiative and get involved in those, she'd probably be fine.</p>
<p>I guess I'll carefully and non-threateningly suggest that she explore a few more options so that she'll have more choices in the spring. As some parents recently suggested to me on another thread, she may just be tired of the whole process and after a week of rest and pigging out (we have a week off for Thanksgiving) she may perk up. Thanks again.</p>
<p>It really depends on your D's learning style. As many have said, students learn as much if not more from other students than from profs or books. The books are often the same, and the profs probably got their degrees in the same institutions at those teaching at more selective schools. But the quality of the students may vary a lot. </p>
<p>Maybe the honors programs will provide a critical mass of students who can help your D produce her best work by providing both support and competition. It would be interesting to know how much of an impact the honors programs have on campus culture.</p>
<p>The question posed in this thread is too vague to offer any meaninful advice. </p>
<p>However, I agree with Marite that the single most important thing in college is learning from the other students. While I don't believe that massive reaches are a good thing, I do think kids benefit from pushing themselves a bit and going to a school where the student body will challenge them. I wouldn't have been happy if my daughter had just applied to a couple of safeties and called it a day.</p>
<p>Of course, that's in a vacuum. There are always other issues, like finances, that may alter the equation.</p>
<p>Agree with a gentle push if the kid is up for it at a reach or match/reach....being surrounded by achievers promotes achievement. Honors program helps but not the equivalent of a top school.</p>
<p>I don't know if I agree that the SINGLE most important factor is what you learn from other students. In any event, she should be challenged by kids in the honors program.</p>
<p>Where are the safeties? Some safeties might be located in big cities and offer a secondary challenge to a child from a suburban environment. </p>
<p>Perhaps a quick one day trip to a more challenging school will be the key.</p>
<p>If she doesn't want to think about a more challenging school and doesn't do Plan II (?), perhaps you can help her think and plan ahead to a junior year abroad--perhaps a place with an inspiring literary atmosphere. Trinity in Dublin, for example? </p>
<p>But 'tempting' her is the most you can do. I wouldn't stand in her way if these are the schools she has set her heart on.</p>
<p>I'm definitely in favor of pursuing a reach or two. I encouraged my son to "aim high" and the outcome has been overwhelmingly positive. My son is attending his reach. Intellectually, socially, artistically -- I never doubted his ability to function at this college, but because of his scores and grades his ability to get in was 50/50ish. Once in, the momentum carries most kids along and the stimulus of being around kids who match their intellectual ability and curiosity propels them to greater achievement. I think the adcoms are fairly good at predicting who can do the work at their schools and once a student matriculates the colleges (especially at LACs) do what they can to assure success. His first year was not without stress and there were certainly moments when he felt like the odd-kid-out among some very driven students; however, now into his second year he's hit his stride.</p>
<p>My son had solid safeties. He liked them so much in fact that he felt conflicted about pushing himself into a more challenging environment. I would have been just as proud of him had he ended up at one of his safeties. There were smart and talented kids at all of them (just not as many and not as smart and as talented). The quality and dedication of the teaching staff was undeniablably good. In fact a lot of graduates of selective colleges are now teaching at second and third tier schools. In spite of my enthusiasm for every college on my son's list, now that I can look back with the benefit of hindsight I'm convinced that his reach is in fact his perfect match.</p>
<p>I am the person who Celebrian refers to. My #2 chose schools that had what he was looking for in places that he was interested in. He looked at the overall atmosphere at the schools as well as the academics. He applied to 6 schools -5 would have been considered safeties and 1 was a match, although the match was his least favorite school. He wasn't worried about being academically challenged. He was accepted to all schools with merit aid at each. I think he would have found himself challenged at any of the schools. I also don't think he would have been overwhelmed if he had attended a school considered to be more challenging.</p>
<p>I know that I am in the minority here in my opinion, but I think that any of the top 300 or so schools in the country can provide a solid education that can challenge any student. Hubby graduated in 1978, before the whole concept of reach, match, and safety were ever on the radar screen. He attended a school that was clearly a safety. He graduated from the school with a 3.94 average and was 3rd in his college class. He always felt challenged. He never felt that the he was superior to the other students and that they weren't as smart as he was. He worked hard for his grades. Upon graduation, he attended one of the top graduate schools in his field and found himself to be better prepared than 75% of the other students. </p>
<p>Ultimately, I believe that fit is the most important thing, and there are lots of schools that will fit most students. As we begin the process for #3, we will be helping him to find a school that has the kind of programs that he is looking for in an environment that will help him grow as a person. If those schools, too, turn out to be "safeties" that will be fine with us.</p>
<p>(And if you are curious about #1, he is a music performance major and applying to conservatories is just a whole different ball game.)</p>
<p>Thank you for all the perspectives. It really does help to see how others feel about this. I just don't want to let her down by not helping her pursue more colleges. I agree that she will probably get a good education at either of her safeties. I guess part of the problem is the sort of let down feeling after all of this research and all of her hard work and now the process is coming to a close.</p>
<p>So we're sort of left with these feelings: When should we quit looking? Are two schools enough? Where will she be happy? </p>
<p>Actually both of her safety schools are ranked highly and have strong liberal arts programs. So maybe we just let it ride. On the other hand...she mentioned Yale today after Thanksgiving dinner. So I guess the search may continue a little longer.</p>
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<p>Actually both of her safety schools are ranked highly and have strong liberal arts programs. So maybe we just let it ride. On the other hand...she mentioned Yale today after Thanksgiving dinner. So I guess the search may continue a little longer.</p>
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<p>I feel like we've been sucker punched, Islandmom. You didn't mention in your opening question that the two so-called "safeties" were highly ranked with strong programs.</p>
<p>Is this all about pressuring the kid to apply to HYPSM because the University of Chicago (just to pick a name out of the hat) is not "prestigious" enough?</p>
<p>Generally speaking, describing a school as a "safety" implies a school where the kid would be at or above the very top of the applicant pool. Maybe it would help to tell us what the two "safety" schools are?</p>
<p>Islandmom, You're not the first parent to feel that the search is infinite. Because we live outside America we made all of our visits in one swoop and I couldn't escape from the feeling that there was one more essential lurking under a rock. (As it turned out the college that my son ended up attending WAS a last minute add on.)</p>
<p>You and your daughter should remember that you're only at the intermediate phase here -- sending the applications. Your daughter doesn't actually have to make a decision for several months. Since you (and maybe she as well) are feeling that two may not be enough, why not go ahead and apply to a few more? She has nothing to lose. If, in April with several acceptances in hand, she decides to attend one of her first two choices, then good, her first intuition was the right one, but at least she and you won't feel that she missed an opportunity.</p>
<p>I didn't get the feeling that Interesteddad did that you were looking for prestige, but rather that you were trying to gauge the right fit for your daughter. If you think she can do the work at Yale -- or any other superselective -- then I see no harm in encouraging her to apply. After the acceptances come in and she knows what her true options are, you can help her evaluate her options.</p>
<p>Because I know so little about your daughter I can only superimpose my own experience on what you've told us. Fear of rejection, fear of failure are definitely part of the process, but shouldn't be the driving force.</p>
<p>Momrath, I feel like you are right on my wavelength, thanks for the support. I was leaning toward your suggestion anyway I guess. I don't want to push her too hard, just give a few more nudges so that later she will be confident that her choice was well though out.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, I am truly just trying to help my daughter. The schools are UTAustin and Baylor. Both are fine, but fairly regional. I certainly did not intend to be misleading and I didn't post all her stats because my main question is really: "Keep looking or stop now?" I'm new to this process and just trying to wade through as best I can. I have another younger one and if I learn this stuff now then her trip through all these mazes will be easier.</p>
<p>Yes prestige is nice as far as it goes. But I would think it would be better to end up at a great fit. And without visiting every college that exists I feel that it's hard to know if the ones we choose after only two applications are the right ones.</p>
<p>Given your daughter's obviously strong academic record, I would certainly favor UT over Baylor, unless the size is a problem. That said, the main reason to look further is if she wanted to see what a small LAC "felt like" or a smaller highly selective university. You can't visit every school in the country, and there is not just ONE right fit. UT is in a class by itself in many ways, so it is easy to contrast it with almost anything else! Perhaps a visit to an Ivy or one of the strong LACs closer to home? Then she can do a few more applications if she wants and worry about visiting if and when she is accepted in the spring. Karen</p>
<p>Like Momrath, I'm projecting on an unknown child, but if it is distance from home, and change that seems to bother her, how about Wash U in St Louis, Rice or Vandy - Vandy culturally will be similar to Baylor, but is possibly more prestigious/academic, WUSTL has probably the most national student body of any, and Rice, while having a large # of Texans is a very rigorous school (she may have considered Rice).</p>
<p>Even a larger speculation, since I obviously don't know your daughter, Yale a big leap from Baylor (although not such a stretch from Plan II), could she be naming schools that she knows she has little chance for admittance, just because she wants to "make you happy" (and I don't mean that YOU are looking for prestige, more that she thinks you want her to try to go away to school)? I'm speaking out of guilt now, I've done more pushing of my daughter during this process, than I'm happy with, and, while I understand what you are trying to do, and I agree with a gentle nudge to widen her sights (You don't want her coming back at 21, and saying "Why didn't you make me look at School X,Y,Z), it is tough to know when to draw the line, particularly when their motives aren't clear - a child who truly wants to stay closer to home is a different situation than a child who has applied and just doesn't want to write anymore essays.</p>
<p>Now is the time to nudge, though, you can back off when she's got 3-4 acceptances to choose from, she won't have that choice if she doesn't apply.</p>
<p>Our situation is similar to Shennie's. DS is a music performance major and the application/audition process and school selection process (because it MUST factor in the private instructor) is a whole different thing. #2, DD is like Shennie's #2. I suspect that she will apply to 5 schools. Four will be safeties, and one a match. I have no doubt that she will be happy and thrive wherever she goes. She's just that kind of kid. Not every kid wants to go to HYP...even if they have the stats to do so.</p>