Need other parents' tips on tuition and value of liberal arts

Parents Forum
1

<p>I'm attending a top liberal arts school, I come from a blue collar family, and they have been freaking out about the tuition. </p>

<p>They're letting me go, but they're absolutely berserk on making me become a doctor because of the high price. I told them I didn't know for sure if that was what I wanted do, and I wanted to "explore" other options by taking intro classes to many subjects (in case I'm more interested in law or business), but they told me to do that would be to squander the 53k tuition. They said if I wanted to "explore", I should just go to the state college for free tuition.</p>

<p>For one, I'm don't know if I really want to become a doctor because of the long work schedules, and because of the process (MCAT and prerequisites). To make some sort of compromise, I told them "What about pharmacy?" They then got really angry, and told me I was being not responsible for planning it out, and flip-flopping my options. If I wanted to do pharmacy, I should have just attended the college closer to home that offers a 6 year program, instead of "wasting" my money at a liberal arts school, they said.</p>

<p>That made me a bit angry, since I wanted to go here to sort of "figure it out", and I've been told people normally change their majors while they're in college. </p>

<p>So obviously, we have different philosophies, but I'm not sure whether theirs is the "right" one, so I'd like some other parents' advice on this. Should I just suck it up and sell out, and take all the pre-med prerequisites right away since I'm spending my parents hard earned cash? Or am I right, and that idea contradicts the whole notion of a "liberal arts" education?</p>

2

<p>Your parents have every right to advise you on how their money will be spent. If you don’t want their advice, don’t take their money. Instead, take out a loan (if you can get one) and then follow your bliss on your own dime.</p>

<p>There’s nothing wrong with having your decision guided by both heart (desires) and mind (practicality). In fact, decisions balanced with heart and mind are often the best ones.</p>

<p>There are several public colleges that have a pure liberal arts approach…see [Top</a> Public Liberal Arts Colleges](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegerankings/tp/public-liberal-arts-colleges.htm]Top”>Top 10 Public Liberal Arts Colleges in the U.S.).</p>

3

<p>wow you have nice parents!! 53K -My daughter is at a nice LAC near our hometown -it’s 40K but she will be going for 20K after scholarship and college plan… in our state 20K is what it takes to go there with room/board/ tuition etc…
I would seriously think about what you plan to major in early on and if you can do it at state university -transfer-that’s way too much money …</p>

4

<p>Becoming a doctor for the money is a potential recipe for disaster. It’s a very noble profession, ‘noble’ meaning thankless, demanding and all-consuming, which is why devoting to it for reasons that are less than noble usually means your sense of purpose is not strong enough to balance out the negative side–dealing with pain and misery on a daily basis, no free time to speak of, high pressure, inevitable failure, etc.–and you end up unhappy and perpetually stressed out. What I’m trying to say is that not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you’re not sure medicine is for you, maybe you should try explaining that to your parents.</p>

5

<p>A few things don’t make sense - </p>

<ul>
<li><p>If money is such an issue then why are you at a high priced LAC when you can go to the state school for free tuition? There are many grads of state schools who go on to med school and become doctors so that’s no reason to go to the LAC.</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t think you should let the fact that a lot of money is being paid to the college be a determining factor in the eventual career path you want to choose, especially since you’re not certain of the career at this point (and many who think they’re certain before they start college change their minds later).</p></li>
<li><p>For your sake, but importantly everyone else’s sake, don’t force yourself to suck it up and head down a med school path if you don’t really want to do that. Firstly, you probably won’t succeed if you’re not that interested, secondly, a lot more money would be spent to achieve it, but more importantly, patients deserve a doctor who’s actually interested in what they do and got there through at least some desire to be there.</p></li>
<li><p>I think you should pursue what you want but still keep in mind the expense. This means don’t skate by taking a light load of easy classes while partying hard but you should still pursue something you’re seriously interested in.</p></li>
<li><p>Seriously, if the money is such a big deal that your parents will restict your pursuits to some pre-conceived idea of theirs that it’s either a doctor or nothing, then you should consider switching to the lower cost school and pursue what you want.</p></li>
</ul>

6

<p>I agree that doctor choice should be done for the right reasons (not money). But another factror here is that med school is EXPENSIVE… you parents may be tapped out before you get there.</p>

<p>Good luck, Op.</p>

7

<p>If you want to make money, leave school now, invest the extra wisely, and become a nurse. If you do that, until at least around age 45, if you paid tuition and borrowed all the money for medical school, you will come out ahead.</p>

8

<p>1) $53,000 a year? That means if your parents weren’t paying for this, you’d have at least $150K in debt even if you were working while you were in school when you graduated.</p>

<p>2) Yes, your parents’ opinions do matter. The value of a liberal arts education in terms of deciding what to do with your life as you go through it only makes sense when one of the following applies (1) Your family is rich enough that the tuition is a drop in the bucket or (2) The school is prestigious enough that if you pick a silly major you can still coast into a job with a high enough salary to compensate for the tuition costs</p>

<p>3) Don’t go to law school unless you actually have dreams of being a lawyer AND get into a T14 school. It’s an oversaturated market with little to no room for grads from elsewhere and on top of which, requires 3 years of schooling beyond undergrad. If you still wish to get rich, then go into i-banking, the payscale moves up quicker and you can start right out of undergrad.</p>

<p>4) I can’t emphasize how disturbing it is that you want your parents to pay 53K a year to “figure it out”. If you need time to think about where your life will go and research different careers, why not defer college for a year?</p>

<p>5) It is even more disturbing that someone suggested taking out student loans to have more “freedom” in deciding what major and career you pursue. That debt is non-dischargeable even in bankruptcy and can stay with you for life. If anything, taking on student loan debt makes you more dependent on picking a job and major for the money.</p>

9

<p>Here’s an interesting document/study that says, basically, that undeclared/undecided students, specfically those who want to wander a bit and “figure things out” are more likely to finish college, may be more mature and realistic, and may have wide ranging interests that serve them well in life. The flip side is that those who have set career paths, such as medicine or law, may be making those choices due to parental pressure, for money or prestige, or other false reasons, don’t have the chance to explore and make authentic decisions, and may even end up leaving school. (I am paraphrasing from memory, so read the document).</p>

<p><a href=“https://wiki.umn.edu/pub/.../Decided_Undecided.doc[/url]”>https://wiki.umn.edu/pub/.../Decided_Undecided.doc&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think it is too bad that your parents want you to become a doctor just because your education is costing so much. There is, actually, no point in paying that much if you cannot explore and take some time to figure out what you are really interested in. Even ten years ago, studying liberal arts and attending college for “learning’s sake” was still common. Economic pressures and increased economic diversity on campuses have really changed that culture.</p>

<p>You will either need to enlist someone to inform your parents on the fact that college is not strictly career preparation (majors often have little to do with career, and medical schools admit students from all kinds of majors) or, you might consider switching to a more affordable school where you can make your own choices.</p>

10

<p>While I agree with you about college should be about education vs practical job training, and it is what I would pay for, I doubt this is a case of parents needing information. Rather college is valued for different reasons by different people, and what they believe is worth the $$. But I’d add that while big state schools and expensive LACs have many different strengths and weaknesses, one can get as much exploration and actual education at both. I think the OP can try to convince her parents of why this LAC is worth it to her personally but beyond that it’s the paying parents perogative, and so if parents aren’t convinced, the OP will have to go to state school (loans, or pursuing a career one isn’t interested in do not seem like realistic options).</p>

11

<p>Go to the LAC. Take the courses required for admission to medical school, but major in whatever you want. Pre-meds can major in anything and take the pre-med courses as electives. See what develops.</p>

12

<p>I haven’t read all of the posts, but I agree with ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad and Marian. Pre-med is not a major in itself. You can major in whatever you want and take the prerequisites for medical school at the same time. Medical school is also very hard to get in to and is very, very expensive in itself. Being a doctor is also not something you want to do unless you truly love the profession.</p>

<p>I would shadow doctors (in multiple types of settings) several times to see if it’s a profession that you are truly interested in. Most hospitals are good about letting people shadow doctors if you are persistent with asking them (from my experience), so I would start by calling them up. If you have connections to doctors (family? parents of friends? etc.) hit them up as well. The only way to really find out is to experience it yourself.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that you should be certain that you want to be doctor before committing the next 12+ years devoting your life and thousands of dollars to it (and always have a backup plan in case you don’t make it to med school). Many students can’t even handle the undergrad coursework. At my undergrad school of about 1,800 students, we easily had about 80 pre-med freshman, which halves by second semester, and is down to about 10 pre-med students by junior year. Only some of them apply to med schools, and fewer make it in.</p>

13

<p>It sounds like there is a disconnect between your view and your parents’ views of the purpose of college. It is really critical that you major in what you want and discover what is meaningful for you. However, your parents have a right to decide how much they are willing to pay for school. It is surprising that they agreed to pay so much for college and assumed they could insist that you become a pre-med major to somehow make up for the cost of college. Finding a major that leads to some career path is important, but it does not have to be this one. It sounds like you need to have a discussion with them about your goals.</p>

14

<p>Just want to reiterate that pre-med students often major in fields other than science. Some of the best doctors I’ve met have majored in areas ranging from civil engineering to Latin American Studies. As long as you take the necessary prereqs for med school, you’re covered. You may want to shadow or do info interviews with doctors to get a feel for what it’s like in practice.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

15

<p>As others have intimated, there is nothing about meeting pre-med requirements that is incompatible with a liberal arts education. Quite the contrary: medical schools look for candidates with a well-rounded education that includes a basic science background, i.e., the pre-med requirements. (I’ll admit the Calculus requirement is a bit of a mystery). </p>

<p>If you are genuinely interested in medicine, then there is some justification for staying in your current LAC. You will gain an excellent education that you can supplement with volunteer experience, shadowing of physicians, internships, and research experience.</p>

<p>However, if you are only considering medicine because of the wishes and demands of your parents, then you must be honest with them and with yourself, and you should agree to transfer to a less-expensive school where you can also get an excellent liberal arts education. If you are genuinely uncertain, then I would suggest that this is also the preferable option.</p>

<p>It is possible to get into medical school without a genuine interest in medicine, but one of the goals of med school admissions committees is to identify candidates with a true interest and vocation, and turn away those who lack genuine commitment.</p>

<p>Medicine is not an easy pathway to financial success. Medical training requires a minimum of seven years of extremely hard work. Moreover, doctors in training not only forego seven years of earning potential, they also are usually saddled with a very large debt burden in the form of student loans.</p>

<p>Physicians just out of residency often have a sense of entitlement, a feeling that they should be rewarded with a very high standard of living. Because the current financial environment makes that increasingly more difficult, this attitude can lead to bitterness. Only a true sense of vocation can make medicine a rewarding career, and only the rewards of service can compensate for the sacrifices that a physician makes during training and throughout their career.</p>

<p>if money is the object your family would be better off investing in a McDonald’s franchise.</p>

16

<p>IrishDoctor, thank you for that. My D (HS senior) is thinking about pre-med, for (mostly) the right reasons. Your message is a great summary of the realities. I’m going to make sure she sees it. </p>

<p>Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using CC App</p>

17

<p>Thank you for your kind words. I wish your daughter the best of luck. I hope she enjoys her final year of school and finds a college that will help to grow as a person and discern what her true vocation is. As a retired pediatrician I can assure her that the rewards of service are great, but she should know there are many ways to serve. She should not feel bad if she discovers that medicine is not the way for her, but it sounds as if her heart is in the right place and I hope she and more like her do choose a career in medicine.</p>

18

<p>Physician here. Words you can show your parents. My advice- take as many courses as you can that are not needed for medical school even if you are premed. Major in whatever you want to. You will not have time for a well rounded education in medical school, now is the time for that. I majored in a field I liked, then chose medical school instead of grad school. With what I now know/experienced I may have chosen grad work instead. I am so glad I took the second foreign language, art history, music symphony and all of the other nonscience courses to give me a liberal arts education in addition to the honors BA in Chemistry (yes, a BA- chose that to reflect meeting both the obvious BS requirements and the BA ones).</p>

<p>Parents- there are so many equally worthwhile careers that no student should attempt being premed unless they truly want that career. There are much easier ways to make money, as well as enjoy doing it. No matter what your child does in the future let them enjoy the education they can receive at their chosen, affordable college. There are abstract benefits in learning how to think that are valuable no matter which career is chosen. Any major suffices for medical school and some can offer options for a job. Most will not get into medical school0 only around 1/3 of those who apply (and many interested in the premed intention will change their minds and not apply).</p>

<p>We used to tell people our son (of 2 physician parents) was too smart to become a physician. Your child was smart enough to get into the top college and is smart enough to choose a major that s/he is interested in. Students do best when they are happy with their goals. Remember that many of the business/corporate leaders will have had an undergraduate liberal arts major. It is the critical thinking skills taught through those courses that develop the medical and business leaders. The well educated think beyond the concrete professions visible to most.</p>

<p>Addenda. Note the word “affordable”. A good liberal arts education can be obtained at many flagship U’s. If finances are a problem- as in student loans- then it may be best to have had the glorious freshman year at the private school and then be with equally smart academic peers at a state flagship, making use of honors courses. Our son chose his flagship over many private schools- his major was a top 15 for grad programs…</p>