<p>Binx, Just wanted to mention one other idea - check out the schools listed at <a href="http://www.fairtest.org%5B/url%5D">www.fairtest.org</a>. They are all "SAT optional" in one way or another and that may work to your daughter's advantage. I know, for example, that Lewis & Clark has a portfolio path to admission where you submit graded papers in various subjects (of course, if they're in German, that might require a translator :) ) But if you suspect her test scores may not be strong, the SAT optional schools might be a place to start.</p>
<p>North Carolina School of the Arts does have a visual arts concentration for high school students. Students are limited to 4 academics a year (health could be extra)...and NCSA only requires 20 credits for hs diploma, just have to meet NC requirements (4 English, 3 social studies, 3 science, 3-4 (?)math, foreign language obviously covered). PE is covered by signed in trips to gym. One student I know who transferred there for senior year took missing earth science class (NC requirement) by correspondence, which D could do from Germany. She could retake some courses in English, up grade point average. Tuition for out of state hs is same as out of state university student. She would need portfolio for admission, but it might appeal to her. It is easier to graduate with only 20 credits.</p>
<p>A local company does SAT prep on campus, only a month, helps greatly!</p>
<p>Binx, I would also focus on SAT IIs and at least the AP exam in German. The subject tests may suit your daughter better, since they tend to be more straightforward and they are somewhat easier to prepare for -- there are a variety of prep books which she could work on at home. After all of her efforts in learning German, she would probably do very well in both the SAT II and AP exam. Given her unusual background, any objective measurement of her achievements would be helpful.</p>
<p>I find myself over in Curmudg's thread, waving my arms wildly, and saying, "Hey guys! Over here! Help me, too!" :)</p>
<p>D took her PSAT today, and said it was easier than the practice test -- don't know what that means. In the afternoon, we spent some time exploring some of the college sites. I remember someone's wise advice (I'd find the thread, but I'm too lazy) about ranking schools according to your own set of criteria, and paying special attention to the ones that you find yourself disappointed about because they didn't come up on top. We saw that happening today, as we tried to figure out why the college board college finder didn't choose the schools we thought it would, and changing different selection criteria, trying to make them come up.</p>
<p>I've gotten some useful PMs, and I had the chance to talk to various teachers at the DoD school today, who had more advice for me. But we still want to hear your suggestions, so please keep them coming.</p>
<p>That's my long winded way of saying, "b-u-m-p-p-p-" :)</p>
<p>binx - speaking for myself (and maybe others?) I'm thinking we are having trouble due to the "wide net" your D is currently casting, as she hasn't yet developed strong preferences. This is good for now, but hard to sink our teeth into. That plus her "unconventional" story makes it harder to make specific suggestions. </p>
<p>It may be that our greatest help will be after she's here and you can visit a few campuses near to your home (even if they're not contenders for her) - big U, Emory, something more quirky and smaller, etc. Then she'll have reactions and we might focus better. I know you're anxious to get a list you can get your arms around now (I would be too). So, my suggestions it that you share with us the schools that you referred to in post #24 ( the ones you're disappointed didn't come up in college finder). That might help us.</p>
<p>For me, the other confounding variable is whether I think about schools for "average" students (as your OP indicated) or the above-average (way above average?) student I'm thinking she really might be.</p>
<p>Which do you truly think she is? Or, better put, which type of kids do you truly think she will better thrive around? If not sure, then the fairly large to quite large school might be just the ticket - she can find her level and go for the Honors College from the outset or after a semester or two if she needs to establish her "stat credentials" first. I think it might be worth focusing some attention on large U's with good Honors Colleges. Then, go to their websites/talk to Adcoms and find out which ones admit to Honors College after one or two semesters on campus. You might find some good candidates this way.</p>
<p>This is the time to just go on the school websites and bounce information around. Write emails. See what comes back. Have your daughter explain her situation. My son was sure he was going to be in Ca at the end of his junior year. I think he found his favorite on this site to be honest. I didn't find it. He was open to anywhere, really and he visited places. He knew we needed financial aid so he was very open. You guys have time. There are too many wonderful schools in the U.S.</p>
<p>Binx, some random thoughts -</p>
<p>College counselor might still be a good idea, even if she has to work with this person long distance</p>
<p>Order some of the videos from various size schools. Maybe go to Paris or England for a long weekend and visit Oxford or Cambridge, Sorbonne, Univ of Edinburgh - I've been to a few of these, and while they aren't like Amer colleges in academics, you can get the feel for large campuses in various settings, big cities, smaller towns, etc. Of the ones I visited, Univ of Edinburgh seemed the most like a US school in its setting. Do they even have an equivalent to our LACs?</p>
<p>I have a SIL who teaches with DoD in Germany, you may even have talked to her! Do they have college reps come to visit in the DoDs? I know from her that moving on and off base is tough now, could you get to some of those visits.</p>
<p>Get an UGA app in early - it is becoming more selective each year and has a great honors college. Along those lines, a trip to Emory, Oglethorpe and UGA, would cover the major types of colleges in a 2 day span - any chance of that this spring?</p>
<p>Yes, the "average" is in quotes because she really is a bright kid, but I do not think she will present that way. Gut feeling. I don't mean to sell her short in anyway, and I think she's "practically perfect" but I'm trying to see her as a college will see her. </p>
<p>I'm hoping she can pull off at least a 1300 SAT math and verbal, but depending on the day, she could be all over the board (no pun intended). She just is real random on her tests. I think she'll get much higher on writing, but we won't know anything till spring when she takes the SATs. I put a guestimate a bit low because I'd rather be safety-heavy than reach-heavy. </p>
<p>She is a hard worker, but a selective hard worker. She is a perfectionist at the things she really loves - writing, violin, art... She's also a people pleaser, and will work hard for the teachers she likes. But she doesn't knock herself out for every class or every teacher. She's self-motivated, but still gets 8 hours of sleep at night. </p>
<p>I'm sure she'd love to visit England, and visiting colleges would be the perfect excuse! That's a great idea. We'll work on it. </p>
<p>We won't be back in the US at all until we move back next August. I do expect to visit some local campuses then. She's been to Ga Tech, UGA, Berry, and others, with school activities or with her brothers, so she's not completely in the dark. But she wasn't thinking about going to college herself at the time. (She loved Berry back then, but has since cooled a bit. I can see it being her safety.) Maybe we can visit schools like Furman or Vanderbilt on weekends. Possibly make one or two flights to other areas and do quick visits. Part of what I'd like to do is identify those areas: perhaps Boston or Minnesota if she can come to grips with that much snow. (She's not sure she can at this point.) I'm thinking there are lots of great schools in PA that might be good middle ground for her. But she does want them close to (if not in) a big city. Some of the smaller schools around Philly might be good; I don't know much about them.</p>
<p>I'm also interested in learning about some great state U's she might consider. (She doesn't want UGA. We've had some strange experiences there.) She likes Indiana. When we did the collegeboard selector, we were surprised at how few state U's came up. We checked fewer and fewer preferences, trying to get more to show up.</p>
<p>Things she did check: urban or suburban (no rural), interested in music and/or drama extracurriculars, a variety of language-related majors. She didn't look for any schools out west (checked TX, CO, and OK - that's about as far west as she went.) She also asked for schools with study abroad programs, because someone here suggested that those schools might be more open/interested to someone with her experiences. </p>
<p>It's late here, and I'm not thinking straight. I'll try to come up with a more organized list of schools, and thoughts about fit tomorrow. I really do value your ideas.</p>
<p>Binx, In addition to academic superstars and talented students, selective colleges are looking for interesting kids with interesting backgrounds and your daughter certainly qualifies. You wrote: “I think she will look very "average" on her application.” This is not necessarily so! In fact she sounds absolutely extraordinary to me. </p>
<p>Her experience is anything but average and it will be appealing to many schools that are willing to take chances on bright, talented kids with unorthodox backgrounds. The challenge will be for her to articulate her specialness within the application format. This will take some thought and strategy, but I think it can be done. The trick is to concentrate on strength and compensate for weakness.</p>
<p>First on the statistical side: GPA and rank may be a weak point. She can’t do much about it now except to explain it, just as you did. Her SAT/ACT is unknown at this point. Let’s hope she has a moment of clarity. Don’t worry about lopsided scores. A strong writing result would be a plus.</p>
<p>Then for the subjective part: She should have wonderful essays. Recommendations may be difficult since she’ll be in a new school next year (and I understand that European recommendations tend to fall on the understated side.) She may need some supplemental recommendations to round out the picture. </p>
<p>Lastly, for supplementals like talent and special skills. For sure both her linguistic ability and violin playing are big pluses. She should prepare a music package including a tape, a resume listing awards and performances, perhaps a recommendation from an instructor, a critical review. She should also make sure that she writes a supplemental explanation of how she dived into German and took on Spanish and Chinese (in German, no less!) </p>
<p>Same thing for art, drama and writing. If she has special achievements she needs to get them out there. Most colleges have specific instructions on their websites about how to submit supplemental materials. She needs to put together strong packages.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that you are being modest about your daughter’s intellectual level. Gifted kids are often intensely focused on their areas of interest and somewhat reticent about broadcasting their brilliance: she needs to overcome any reluctance to blow her own horn and let her light shine. </p>
<p>The world is becoming increasingly global and international experience is a BIG draw at most schools. You would be truly shocked at how many kids even at the elite schools don’t even have passports. Your daughter will be able to draw on a depth of experience well beyond the scope of most American 17 year olds.If this isn’t a hook I don’t know what is.</p>
<p>As far as specific schools, she may have to cast a wide net. As I said, she sounds like the kind of student that many selective colleges would welcome. I would think that an LAC would be the most accommodating i.e., willing to talk to your daughter , read through the supplemental material and understand her unique situation. There are so many great ones out there at all levels of selectivity that I hesitate to recommend any one in particular, but I wouldn’t eliminate any right now, even the super reaches.</p>
<p>Maybe next fall plan on a leaf-peeping tour of New England. You could see 5-6 colleges in a week in a range of selectivity that should get her charged up. Be sure to schedule interviews and meeting with academic departments.</p>
<p>Don't despair. You and she have more than a year to mull this over. Once she steps onto a few campuses (especially the, as you say, "pretty" ones) she'll get enthusiastic. Good luck and keep us posted.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Her experience is anything but average and it will be appealing to many schools that are willing to take chances on bright, talented kids with unorthodox backgrounds. The challenge will be for her to articulate her specialness within the application format. This will take some thought and strategy, but I think it can be done. The trick is to concentrate on strength and compensate for weakness.
[/quote]
momrath put into very clear words exactly what I have been thinking. If you are considering a paid counselor, I would be looking very much for the person who can strategize how best to accomplish momrath's approach to presenting her in her apps. This more so than helping you find the schools. I agree with momrath that finding a way for her to "come across" in her apps is your Key Success Factor (as we used to say in business school).</p>
<p>The public school where I sub regularly has exchange students from Germany and France, and so the registrar has gained some experience with placement and thus knows what the various systems teach and when. You may find your local school has the same situation. Alternatively, someone at the Fulbright Office might be able to put you in touch with a local teacher who's taught in Germany and could help your D find the right courses. </p>
<p>If you look at Lewis and Clark, consider a visit to Reed at the same time. Reed is fond of students with unusual life experiences.</p>
<p>First, I'd suggest logging onto the Stanford admissions website and checking the information for home schoolers. To some extent, the fact that your daughter doesn't have a normal transcript makes her like a homeschooler. The suggestions for homeschoolers on the Stanford site may be helpful.</p>
<p>Second, log onto the collegeboard site and look for information there. I'd suggest that you download sample CLEP, AP, and SAT II real tests and have your daughter take practice tests. You can also buy a book of real SAT II tests in various subjects. (Amazon and other companies ship books overseas.) If your daughter does well on any of the practice tests she takes, talk to the DODDS counselor about having her take the SAT IIs and AP tests in May/June of this year. If the DODDS isn't helpful, contact ETS Europe, which is located in the Netherlands. You might also want your daughter to take some CLEP tests--you can find more info about them on-line at college board. There are CLEP testing centers in Geneva and London. (I just found that out on the college board site.) </p>
<p>In the absence of a transcript, test scores will be important. Don't worry that your daughter isn't a good test taker. AP exams aren't like typical standardized tests. I suspect that after all those years of physics, your daughter might be able to do very well on the AP physics B or C test next May, for example. She certainly ought to be able to ace the German AP tests and may be ready for a CLEP in German as well. Since you say she writes well, she should take the AP English exam. Since she's a math major, she should take practice SAT IIs in math--version Ic and IIc--and see which one she is prepared for. In other words--I think the best way to see how prepared she is for these tests in areas she has studied is to have her take the practice exams. </p>
<p>There's really not much downside risk. If you daughter doesn't do well on a test, the result is easily explained by the fact that she took courses which covered different material. If she does well, a few 4 or 5s in physics, English,maybe Comparative government, etc. will help. Again, to know which might be worth taking, download the sample tests and have her try them. </p>
<p>If she is really talented at art and music, consider putting together a portfolio and/or recording a CD. Many colleges have very, very specific requirements for submitting art portfolios--you don't want to find that you don't have time to get the art organized in the required way after you come back next August and /or that you threw out some items before you moved that would be ideal. Look up the requirements NOW. </p>
<p>Another possibility is to see if you can arrange for her to take some IB (international baccalaureate) exams. It sounds like the way her gymnasium works tracks that system more closely. Again, get some old practice tests and see how she does on them. </p>
<p>I'd use the PSAT as an excuse to talk to the DODDS college counselor. You might offer to pay for his/her help in the early stages of all this. Another possible resource is the American consulate. Many of them have educational counselors who assist foreigners interested in applying to study in the US. This means they often have a library of the standard college guides and other resources. Every now and then, you luck out and get an educational officer who is really stellar and helpful. I suspect (s)he'd be willing to help an American kid. </p>
<p>Viel Gluck!</p>
<p>Taking IB exams not possible....IB exams can't be taken like AP exams. You have to be registered as an IB student and have taken so many hours of coursework, turn in projects etc. to take the exams. The final marks given in July are based on more than just an exam.</p>
<p>Following a lot of these comments. . .</p>
<p>LACs spend more time on apps and will give more consideration to non-traditional students. </p>
<p>For academic quality vs selectivity, the LACs in the Midwest are still best bets, and many have been mentioned on this thread. And they'd all be a change from Atlanta. . .(though depending on where you are in Germany perhaps some surprising similarities in that direction.) Most selective, but still worth investigating are Carleton, Macalester and Grinnell. Excellent less-selective choices named by other posters include Lawrence, St. Olaf and Beloit. And one of my favorites, a less-selective school in Ohio, is the College of Wooster. They take a very individualized approach to both admissions and their academic program.</p>
<p>I would definitely have your D study for the SAT - using a prep course or a rigorous, supervised home study program. Good scores will make it easier for a an adcom to look past some of the missing grades and US programs.</p>
<p>We have collected a list of about 50 or so colleges and universities to look at so far, and are working our way through them. I will give you a look at 2 of them that appeal for different reasons -- completely different types of schools -- with her positive and negative comments. Perhaps that will help sharpen the focus:</p>
<p>***Bard (NY - 90 miles north of NYC) -- </p>
<p>Positives:<br>
nice campus, Bavarian-style views.
Strong study abroad program (which we hope means they value international experience.)
Interesting "program" approach to majors
Several language-related major "programs"
Open to non-traditional students, flexible admit policies
SAT optional
Young music program seems open and welcoming to non-majors
Doesn't offer minors, but allows flexible courses of study</p>
<p>Negatives:
high cost; few appropriate scholarships
Limited foreign languages; no linguistics major
rural - no big cities nearby
Seems "outdoorsy" (which D is not)
Seems to be a fairly liberal campus (based on reading some student web sites and school newspaper), which on a small, isolated campus, might be a problem if you lean the other way (She gets plenty of this in Germany and handles it just fine, so it's really not too big a deal. But given the choice, it would be nice to not be continually on the defensive.)</p>
<p>***Indiana University, Bloomington</p>
<p>Positives:
Extensive language / linguistics offerings
Plenty of other majors, too, should she change her mind!
Cheaper than some; variety of scholarships available
Mild, four-season weather
Nice campus
SAT "fit" or safety
Many extra-curricular offerings
Large Uni means probably a place for everyone</p>
<p>Negatives:
Music opportunities seem limited to music majors. (She doesn't want to major in violin, but would like to continue it.)
Will she get lost in a Uni this big?
Will her application get disregarded as too complicated?
60% of students are from instate.</p>
<p>If I've got wrong info or impressions here, or you have other thoughts, let me know. I'll post other possibilities as we continue our research via "tours" of web sites.</p>
<p>So far, her criteria seem to be:
-various language-related options for major
-music program accessible to non-majors
-cultural offerings, either through proximity to big city, or big enough college to have their own
-a "campus" (as opposed to random buildings above store fronts)
-still willing to look at all levels of selectivity, but wanting some safeties to love</p>
<p>I agree with Reidm about the midwest schools. Kenyon would be worth researching. It's definitely not a safety, but I think it meets most of her current criteria, and it's an excellent school. Only 30 minutes away is Denison, and a bit further is Earlham in Indiana. You also might look at Hanover in IN as a potential safety/match. There are a bunch of good schools in Ohio and IN. One of our favorites closer to Atlanta is Centre College in KY. </p>
<p>All of these schools have music and language programs, but I can't comment about their strength or reputation in those areas. I've already told you this in a PM, but I think she's going to be an attractive applicant for many colleges, especially the smaller places. Momrath and Jonri have outlined great ideas and strategies to get the colleges to recognize her strengths.</p>
<p>Binx, son applied to both of the schools. Indiana is great because it has rolling admissions and if you apply early enough they may parcel out some funds. Also you have a bird in the hand by December. Son visited Bard, loved the music professor he met with, the campus, the setting. He ran into internationals. He didn't get the chance to visit Indiana but had friends already attending the music division. In the end he chose a different school. The downside of both the schools you mentioned is they weren't as good as others with finances.</p>
<p>Binx - take a look at Ohio University and DePauw, don't know about the language/linguistics/foreign study aspect, but one is a LAC, which often means many kids study abroad and the other is a fair sized uni. They came to mind because I know 2 talented musicians who came out of those schools - one pro, one "semi-pro" (works weddings), both are small enough that they might have opportunities for the non-major musician.
Definitely look at St Olaf, Macalester and maybe Carleton. If she's willing to look in the South, I'll still suggest B'ham-Southern, maybe Sewanee or Furman.</p>
<p>When you described her interests, I actually thought of Indiana, although I had heard that it might be hard for a non-music major to get into many groups.
The concern I would have about large state schools is that they tend to make number based decisions, and would not know what to do with her record, or give it the consideration needed - that's just going to have to wait until the time comes.</p>
<p>Will she go to a large public high school in Atlanta, or a smaller private school - many of the privates have great counseling departments that might be able to help even before you get to the states.</p>
<p>Binx, I agree with cangel that big U's may be more numbers driven than LACs -- especially for out of state. </p>
<p>Some ideas for Eastcoast LACs with strong arts programs. Where these would lie on the match/reach/safety scale will depend a lot on how your daughter does on her SATs. </p>
<p>Bard (within a reasonable travel distance of New York)
Vassar
Barnard
Smith (reputation for risk taking on untraditional admits)
Middlebury excellent language programs
Dickenson ditto for language and somewhat less selective
Skidmore
Williams (definite reach but seriously recruiting kids with music skills and global outlook. Plenty of performance opportunities. Good art department. So so languages)</p>
<p>I wouldn't put too much weight on the college's own study abroad program as it is very common for kids to tap into other schools' programs. You could look at the percentage who do go abroad and the percentage of international students for an indication of how international friendly the school is.</p>
<p>Two more "web site tour" reports:</p>
<p>**Grinnell</p>
<p>Positives:<br>
-Appropriate language programs available
-Music ops available to non-majors
-Strong international representation
-Great reputation</p>
<p>Negatives:
-Web site does not make it easy to get a feel for the school. No photos of campus. Not a lot of subjective quotes. If school hadn't come so highly recommended by CC folks, I'd be inclined to dismiss it as underwhelming.<br>
-Admission seems more rigid - would they risk non-traditional? SAT averages probably more of a reach.
-Lacking cultural ops of big city. (They mention all the culture available at another school an hour away!)
-High cost, low scholarship availability</p>
<p>**Middlebury</p>
<p>Positives
-Outstanding language and international focus - probably the best I've seen so far.
-Environmentally aware; something we've gotten used to in Germany.
-music available to non-majors; private lessons reduced in price for orchestra members
-Possibly a match in focus, and requirements
-Many clubs
-Commons approach to housing is appealing (Wonder if they use a hat to place?)</p>
<p>Negatives:
-One of most expensive; no merit scholarships
-Remote VT location - how will D handle being snowed-in?
-Only 1 violin teacher (though she seems well-qualified) probably means weak string section.</p>
<p>I really, really like this school for D if she decides she can handle the location.</p>
<p>These are both schools we would not have known about if not for CC. Please keep suggestions coming.</p>