My D has gotten into top UCs, but even though she likes Berkeley, she really wants to go to a small LAC because the environment would be a better fit. Being a pre-med would also be a less trying experience at an LAC than at Cal. Cost was making this look unrealistic before, since we don’t qualify for a lot of need-based financial aid. However, merit-based scholarships have changed the outlook. The only problem is, her top choice college doesn’t offer merit scholarships, and so we are looking at a modest grant plus work/study and the usual loans. I have two questions for anyone who would like to indulge a dad who is suddenly more stressed out than his D about clicking the “right” button on May 1:
Has anyone successfully negotiated a better aid package from a strictly need-based aid LAC (e.g., Carleton) by showing them the merit scholarships their D or S got at other LACs? I am guessing no, but just checking. I know my D would be really sad if she had to turn down her dream school on account of money, but such is life.
Still trying to figure out how much of a premium I'm willing to pay for a private LAC over a UC. No one else can answer this for me, but curious to hear other people's thought process about the ROI. A smart kid will get a good education regardless, but my D will probably be happier in a smaller, more intimate community of learning where she has greater personal interaction with professors, even though the idea of Cal excites her.
Here’s my D’s current situation:
Scripps: $27K x4 Scripps Scholarship
Bryn Mawr: $25K x4 Presidential Scholarship
Oberlin: $25K x4 Oberlin Scholarship
Whitman: $16K x4 Brattain Scholarship + $3K x4 Higley Music Scholarship (she must double major in music) + $1600 x4 towards private lessons on her instrument
All great schools. These scholarships bring the cost to within $8K-$12K of UC Berkeley, the most expensive of the six she is considering. This is a small premium to pay for the perceived advantages of an LAC over a UC for my D.
Then there’s CARLETON: Fits like a glove. She left her heart in Northfield, MN, and it obviously showed in her application. She liked it even more after attending a local alumni and student holiday gathering. I will never, in my life, forget the moment she saw the acceptance letter on the portal. Unfortunately, only $7,720 in grant money for 2017-18 plus W/S.
This makes it $21K per year costlier than UC Berkeley, if Cal doesn’t award her the Regents’ scholarship (still waiting to hear the final results). And if she does get the $2500 per yr scholarship, the gap grows.
Even more stark: this is $30K per yr more than UC Davis with the Regents’ they already awarded her. UCLA and UCSD are in between Cal and UCD in cost. You can see how it becomes hard to justify the premium, seeing that we are not wealthy. Without more aid, we would have to go into serious debt, and our second D will be in college in 2019. I already have the HELOC lined up. Is the undergrad ROI justified? Heart says it is, she’s your baby. Brain says bad idea, you have another baby (and your house and retirement savings) to worry about.
If we went to Carleton and told them that they are her dream school, if only they could do better with the financial aid, any chance they will budge? Our financial situation hasn’t changed between FAFSA/CSS filing time and today. Thanks in advance.
I think the difference is that Carleton’s award is need based only, while your daughter has received merit awards from the other LAC’s. As far as I know, Carleton doesn’t offer merit, with the exception of a National Merit award of $2000 a year to finalists – so basically the question would be whether your financial need justifies a larger award. And not what you think you need – rather the amount that is determination based by the financial information Carleton has from you.
What’s your FAFSA EFC? How far off is the Carleton award from that?
Merit aid from other schools won’t sway them. Only some additional info on your financial situation would help. She has great other choices that sound more affordable. I wouldn’t do it – and both my kids applied to Carleton, 1 got in but made a different choice. And I have visited all the schools on her list, too. Don’t drain your house equity for it.
I would agree. Carleton is a great school but the others where she was accepted are pretty impressive too. If the the other 4 LACs you mentioned are more affordable with the packages received, I would go with one of them.- they are all top schools
Go with the best affordable option. Your daughter will thank you for not sinking her future in college debt. Save it for medical school. A boy last year turned down offers from all 8 ivies for his state school, because he was pre-med.
Medical school is crazy expensive and I’m not just talking about COA. There’s a variety of other expenses that are rarely talked about.
Bryn Mawr is still all women, isn’t it? If she’s fine with that, that would be a fine choice.
What did she like about Oberlin? If she likes that pretty well, I think I would choose that.
I agree that Cal may sound exciting, but with a gazillion premed gunners, it wouldn’t likely be pleasant in many ways.
I wouldn’t do Whitman because of the double major requirement unless she could ONLY major in music and would be happy only majoring in music. I don’t know if the practicing req’ts would interfere with studying for Orgo and other difficult premed classes.
What is her other major? (She does know that she can major in ANYTHING and still be premed, right?)
Have been there, although not with schools of the same caliber, lol. Still, the emotions are the same. Not sure where the line gets drawn; I suppose it depends on the family. Even if I could fine the money without resorting to a HELOC, I probably couldn’t do 21k a year more. Just couldn’t, especially if I had a good enough choice that was only going to add 8k to my base (UC) price. I just don’t think Carlton’s worth that much more than the other LAC’s on the list. Maybe reframe the question in terms of Carleton vs. another LAC, not Carleton vs. UC.
We were in a similar position with oldest D, and chose NOT to spend $30k/yr more for the smaller ‘fit’.
Like you, we probably could have managed it (barely), but it would have put a lot more stress on her to work during the school year and get good-paying summer work. The lower cost option worked out great, and she was able to take summer positions that got her the best experience in her field, even if they didn’t pay much (and she’s not in a high-paying field). She still worked during the school year, but didn’t feel pressure to work a certain number of hours, and had time to participate in career-related ECs on campus. We were able to help pay for a car for those summer jobs, and so she could work off-campus her senior year.
She is graduating this May, with lots of great experience on her resume, and ZERO debt. Will be spending the summer abroad traveling…because she has some money saved and is not feeling pressured to get a job immediately. We fully support that. She has worked hard, both during the academic year and during the summers, and this is the time in her life to explore a bit. We will probably be able to help her with grad school, if and when she makes that decision.
I think the stress of a huge financial commitment would have made for a very different experience for her.
Sure, it’s good for these young adults to start learning about finances, and how to support themselves. But I think my D has benefited greatly from being able to enjoy her undergraduate years without a constant pressure to perform and earn.
@BobShaw: I will be the voice taking the view opposite of the above posters. We must be in a strikingly similar financial situation as you, with our need-based aid from Carleton a mirror-image of yours.
Our daughter left her heart at Carleton (not San Francisco. Now that song will be an ear-worm all day!) when all her acceptance letters arrived last spring. We did turn down several merit scholarships, one being $24,000 for each of four years at a LAC we also liked, and yet she enrolled at Carleton. She is thriving, happy, challenged. It was the right college for her, and the psychological comfort for us is tremendous. We took the financial plunge, and we are managing it quite well – with two kids currently in college (the other at UW-Madison).
With you being in California, the financial pressures on you may well differ from those we face in “Up North” Minnesota. Only you can know whether you might pull it off as well as we have. But we keep our spending in check (always have, and we save). Our goal has been to enable our three kids to prosper. Both kids have their eyes on medical school; both of them will be on their own in regard to those expenses. If need be, they can always go to med school by signing on to one of the armed services, which will pay for tuition and pay a stipend throughout med school, “obligating” them to do residency and several years at a military medical facility. Not a big deal in our minds.
I understand your angst-- we were there last March/April. We, too, wondered whether an extra $100,00 in college costs was worth it. It has been for us. I can’t make that judgment for you.
You might be able to get a tiny bit more in need-based aid by asking them to revisit your cost of attendance if appropriate. I know someone in Texas who got another few hundred from MIT (another need-only school) based on the actual travel costs from her town to Boston and the fact that her son owned no snow weather clothes.
It’s not going to make it in line with schools that provide merit awards.
Take another look at Scripps. There’s quite a bit of applicant overlap between the various Claremont Consortium colleges and Carleton.
Whitman is a wonderful school for bio and biochem, but the warning about being a science plus music major is sound. If she can’t afford to lose that music money, trying to double-major could be extra stress.
And don’t assume that she won’t have individual attention at a public U. A lot will depend on the size of her major department, and there may be honors sections to make intro classes a bit smaller.
As for whether the premium for Carleton is within reason, it really depends on the financial strength of your family and whether she has siblings going to college as well. If you have to scratch it off the list, you have a lot of good choices left.
@MinnesotaDadof3, when you have to tap your house equity to pay it, have a younger kid who might also want a private school, and have concerns about your retirement funding, it isn’t worth it. As much as we want to give our kids the world, a family unit is a team. This choice hurts everyone else in the family, and there are other very good options on the table for a better price.
Of her other choices, I’d say the power of the Claremont consortium can’t be beat (my D2 turned down Carleton for Mudd). Access to the other schools really enables all those schools to punch above their weight individually.
@intparent: I couldn’t agree with you more. Financial stress is a constant that no one has fun living with. Fortunately, we are not having to tap any home equity, and we are still saving for retirement. If our situation were otherwise, other choices would have been made.
You may get more aid in 2019, when your 2nd is in college, but I tend to agree with other posters, that you have an abundance of fantastic cheaper options, and one of those may be the better choice.
^^^ agreed! We’ve seen a few families borrow too much or stretch too much for Child #1 and then the following child(ren) get screwed.
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Whitman is a wonderful school for bio and biochem, but the warning about being a science plus music major is sound. If she can't afford to lose that music money, trying to double-major could be extra stress.
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I’m wondering if the family knows that she can single-major in music and still be premed? It would still be a challenge fitting in the music practices AND studying/lab/homework for the premed prereqs, but students have done this if well-organized (and probably no part-time job).
If the school allows AP credits to be used for Core/GenEd, then take advantage of that for classes like Frosh Comp and History. My kid used his AP bio and chem credits to skip to the higher level courses…which meant skipping those typically weeder classes.
If the school would allow taking some summer classes at a local CC or online, then taking psych and socio can knock those off.
The goal would be to lighten and level-load each semester. One thing that kills many premeds is heavy-loaded semesters.
Another thing to consider if premed…working summers is fine. However, if working during the school year is needed to make ends meet, then that can be an added struggle during the Ochem semesters. My son only worked 2-4 hours a week (on Friday late afternoons) during his Ochem semesters. Lol…that tiny bit of earnings gave him a little pocket money to supplement his summer earnings. During other semesters, he only worked 8 hours a week. Protecting the GPA was paramount. He wa a ChemEng’g premed.
Unfortunately, I have never heard of a college raising financial aid to meet the merit aid offers of other colleges, but you can ask. That said, I’m pretty familiar with your list and the pre-med track at those colleges. I think that Scripps with the Keck science center is great; BMC is strong for pre-meds and the consortium opens up extra opportunities. Whitman has a great Bio department and pre-med placement as well. I’m not well versed on STEM at Oberlin so I can’t comment on that one. Your D has worked hard and has fantastic offers from wonderful colleges. I don’t think Carleton is likely to give you much more money, so it might make sense to visit these colleges again and see if she can see herself happy at one of them. Also, ask her to try to explain why she thinks Carleton might be worth the higher tuition and see if you can find those qualities in one of her other options. Regarding the LAC vs. UC choice, as a CA resident with a D at a LAC, I can say that I have no regrets paying more for the small class sizes and easier access to professors, but that is a personal decision.
Definitely listen to your Brain. Spending 50k plus per year is only a valid option if you can afford it - and even then I don’t think it’s necessarily the right decision.
She has affordable options that are outstanding
She is planning on med school
Rule #1 of pre-med - don’t go into a lot of debt for UG - Save debt for med school! (And you said “serious debt”, definitely don’t do that!
After her first year of whatever school she chooses, it will probably have captured her heart.
in ten years none of this would matter … unless you are all still paying off UG debt. Then you’ll be wishing she hadn’t chosen Carleton.
Search for all the threads that talk about how crippling UG debt can be. Both student and parent debt. If you’re thinking about her taking out loans, consider the compromise of her going to the cheaper schools and you paying the full amount coupled with her not having to take the loans out, or at least reducing them.
OP,
DS had the same"problem" 10 years ago- accepted to many colleges we just could not afford, including Carleton. [ That was before NPC’s were available]
He decided to enroll at the one that offered him the most $$, which ALSO happened to be the biggest U he applied to and the one that was the least likely “fit”.
10 years later, the name “Carleton” never comes up [nor does Chicago or any of the other colleges that accepted him]. He is finishing up his PhD and we have no retirement worries- a blessing for BOTH our son and us!
Smart kids can find their peers and fit like a glove almost anywhere.
do NOT take out loans to send your DD to Carleton!
She IS going to college and if both you and she are smart, she will ALSO be able to afford Med School.
You know your daughter pretty well. How likely is it that she will stay a premed? What is her motivation for that?
Is there a chance that she will nerd out on biology and choose a PhD as a path to developing treatments for the illnesses that interest her?
I looked up Carleton’s academic calendar. This year they go into the first week of June. You/she need to do a little bit of work to see if that is going to interfere with start dates for summer research opportunities.