<p>Thank you both etondad and h2ocows for the good advice. I think he has a decent chance of getting LCM Jr’s by this summer based on how close he is now and how quickly he is dropping times. His best race by far is the 50 back, which is one of the reasons he is focused on NESCAC schools, since this is a conference that has this race. He also likes smaller schools anyway. Can’t really materially change the 3.0 GPA, although hopefully he can bring it up somewhat this year. Are there any other schools/conferences either of you recommend for him to look at? I know Emory is also a school that he has shown interest in. Thanks again for the advice. I really appreciate it!</p>
<p>Swimdad- Emory is a great D3 swimming program. Jon Howell is an outstanding coach and he has dominated the D3 national championships for the past 10 years. The women have won the national championship 3 times in the past 3 years and the men have come in 2nd place 4 times in the past 10 years. Emory University has a smaller campus but also has a nationally ranked medical school, law school and business school.</p>
<p>Your S times would appear to be in range for what Emory is looking for. However the coach is somewhat limited in how much help he can give his athletes with admissions. He is looking for ACT of at least 32, 6 AP courses and UW GPA of 3.8 and not less than a 3.2. My advice would be to have your S finish up his junior year with as many As as possible as well as 4s and 5s on his AP exams. I would Email the coach now and fill out the online recruit form.</p>
<p>SwimDad2014–Along with Emory I’d probably also consider Kenyon and Denison, both are fine LACs with outstanding swim programs. Moreover, the NESCAC benefits from other great schools besides Williams and Amherst. For a more university setting, the coaches at Johns Hopkins and Chicago would more than welcome recruits with Jr. Nat cuts.</p>
<p>One more thing. Keep in mind that for recruiting purposes, the “book closes” at the end of the summer prior to your son’s senior year. By then, all of the admissions testing should be completed and your kid’s HS GPA is essentially set. Also, if he’s going to cut time in the pool, the time to do so is this spring and late summer tapers as college swim recruiting is already in full bloom once school begins in the fall with OV and such.</p>
<p>Swimkidsdad–a question I always wanted to ask-- to what extent does Emory use Oxford College as a place to place kids which academically might not make the cut at the main university? Can they compete for Emory?</p>
<p>In addition to E, D and K, Chicago is an up and coming program and MIT has already arrived-- but unfortunately the academics of those schools are too demanding than the profile you indicate. h2oCows is right-- Middlebury is a strong program that had a recent setback bc of changing coaches, but will be on the rebound soon–and what a beautiful pool–wow, probably-- no, not probably–definitely-- the prettiest in the league. Conn College had a terrific men’s NESCAC and its coach won coach of the meet–look into them as well as other NESCAC schools.</p>
<p>Etondad- If you are admitted to Oxford you must live and attend classes on the Oxford campus. Given the distance between Oxford and Emory I dont think that it would be possible to attend Oxford and practice with the swim team.</p>
<p>Besides the coach is actually looking for a different type of student. He actively recruits swimmers who can qualify for the Emory scholars program. For this program you generally need a 35-36 ACT, multiple AP courses, 3.9-4.0 uw GPA and high class rank. This program is a merit based scholarship and can pay up to full tuition at Emory.</p>
<p>I agree that 3.0 is going to be tough at any NESCAC school. Have your son reach out to a few coaches and see how they respond. I know Burnham, Benvenuti, and Solomon to be very honest about admissions chances (and very honest men in general) so their responses might give him an idea of how he would fare at other NESCACs. Maybe a very high ACT score could balance the GPA enough for one of the schools. Also, take a look at 2013 NESCAC results to compare times (and keep in mind not everyone was tapered)…the conference just got a whole lot faster (and deeper). The top of the NESCAC has been changing a bit. Williams and Amherst should continue to remain 1 & 2 but there is a lot of chatter about Conn challenging #2 in the next couple of years, great coach and program continuing to rise. Middlebury recovered from their setback and should also strengthen, Rueppel looked in charge this year. Wesleyan is at the bottom right now but they have a great coach so should become strong fairly fast. Just be sure to ask really tough questions, especially going in knowing the GPA is low. You don’t want to be strung along and waste other chances. Obviously many great options outside of that conference, too. Best of luck in the search.</p>
<p>etondad - I have almost commented in the past when you brought up captain’s practices and hesitated. I say this in kindness … I would be careful about how much you reveal about pre-season practice schedule and expectations. Pre-season walks (swims) a fine line in the NESCAC.</p>
<p>Again, I truly appreciate all of the great advice each of you have offered. It is really helpful for my son and me.</p>
<p>You might consider the Patriot League. Schools like Bucknell, Lafayette, and Holy Cross are relatively small and offer excellent academics. I know from experience that a higher test score with a lower gpa from an academically competitive high school can work. I’m not sure what the gpa threshold is, and it probably varies from school to school, but I think it is well worth reaching out to those programs once you have a strong standardized test score in hand.</p>
<p>Thanks carpediem44. Bucknell is also on his list. The coach already reached out to him and he is interested in the school. He has some friends who are there (non-swimmers) who really like it also.</p>
<p>My son swims at Midd, was recruited by the NESCACs. Your sons grades aren’t good enough for Williams, Amherst, or Midd IMHO, unless he gets full coach support, and if they don 't really need him, he won’t get it.</p>
<p>The coaches at NESCAC can fully support about 4 students a year( men and women), so it all depends on who else is " in the pool".</p>
<p>Your S may have less trouble getting into Conn, but unless he wants business as a major, I don 't know why he would go there. Peter Solomon is an excellent coach team-building at Wesleyan, so I would have my son look there with those grades. he should also have a few back ups in case whatever his first choice is doesn’t pan out. Don’t burn any bridges.</p>
<p>While any coach will be interested in your S with those times, it will be crucial to gage the amount of support he is getting with his grades. Of course the coaches will encourage him to apply, because it’s nothing to them if he doesn’t get in. Read some of my other posts, or PM me.</p>
<p>For elite athletes (including swimmers) it’s much, much easier – and far more predictable – to get into the Ivy’s than top NESCAC schools. Once you have the necessary data, plug them into the AI to get a score you can shop around to Ivy coaches. For fast swimmers, Ivy schools can take far more academic “risks” than NESCAC’s “band” system will permit. But you have to have a highly recuited, fast swimmer.</p>
<p>OldbatesieDoc–Tried to PM you but found out I am too new and don’t have the 15 posts minimum yet! My son did a short swim camp at Bates last summer and really liked the school and especially the coach! This school is certainly high on his list.</p>
<p>h2ocows–His AI (based on GPA and ACT) is 209. He hasn’t taken the SAT 2’s yet and would need 700’s on those to keep at least a 209, which I believe he will be able to do. Do you think 209 with hopefully at least one jr. nat’l hard cut would be enough for an Ivy? His 50 back time might also enable him to lead the 200 medley relay. Thanks!</p>
<p>SwimDad2014 – Candidly, I just don’t know. A 209 strikes me as above the absolute floor, but I’m not sure by how much at specific Ivy schools (it varies school-to-school). Also, swim coaches tend to look at times from the more traditional 100/200 events for sprinter types, as I seriously doubt any coach would recruit specifically for a 50 back specialist (and this is also true for NESCAC schools). Perhaps 50 freestylers might get a bit more traction (for obvious reasons). Check out results from the Ivy mens swim championship (this weekend) and look at what it takes to make it back to the A/B finals. That’s what coaches look for in potential recruits–points at the conference meet. You’ll also find tremendous variation in swim talent across the Ivy swim teams. So long as the academics (AI score) come in at an acceptable level it’s that simple. Be strategic in the Ivy schools you target (i.e., which team would your kid help the most). Finally, insofar as Ivy league “Junior Days” invitations will spill out soon, the time for your kid to drop time in the pool is now.</p>
<p>OF COURSE Bates is great! Lewiston , not so much.Bates is one of the top schools for students to end up in a helping profession, and the faculty are amazing. The swim team is a nice bunch of supportive kids and the coaches are excellent. The pool is just OK.
Bates is SAT optional but that’s not your S’s weak point.
I don’t think it is easier to get into an Ivy with a B average for non-helmet sports. We have a friend swimming for Harvard who had 700 pluses on the SATs, and a 92 ish average as well as placing highly in NYS championships in multiple events.He was also highly recruited by Brown. For whatever reason, it’s easier to explain low test scores than grades that are below par. Low grades make a student look less focussed, as grades are based on long term effort.</p>
<p>Conn, esp for men, is a great up and coming program and his numbers may be more competive. An AI of 209 is ok, but won’t light up any Ivy coach’s interest on its own. NESCAC is a rare conference in that it does have 50 yd events in the strokes, but as they are not NCAA events, Williams, Amherst and Midd (esp W/A) has less interest as they really gear the season toward the NCAA rather than the conference meet. </p>
<p>As I and others have noted, look at the current roster–both for times but also for need-- for example if you are a woman breast stroker you probably will get a second look from Coach Kuster if your numbers both in the pool and in the classroom are good, more than if you are a flyer or sprint/middle distance free just in terms of Williams’ needs. </p>
<p>NESCAC is much less predicable than the Ivies, as has been noted, but then the Ivies have become BLAZINGLY fast and with incredible recruits the past few years–NESCAC recruiting is also much more demanding, but not as much as the Ivies (I think Harvard women had one of the top ten recruit classes according to collegeswimming.com last year…).</p>
<p>100 back and 200 back are his best regular races. I have always thought of the 50 back as a nice bonus…maybe of more value in the NESCAC…but I get the point that the top NESCAC schools are really focused on the NCAA’s anyway. Makes complete sense.</p>
<p>I’m getting recruited for swimming at Bates! :)</p>
<p>That’s great POmani. The coach there seems great. Good luck! What are your races?</p>
<p>100% agree with you! 50 free, 100 free, 200 free and 50 fly. 100 back if you push me.</p>