<p>Tisch allows anyone who wants to audition to do so. The academic review is done later. I'm not sure why Steinhardt does it differently, unless it's just that they want to control the number of auditionees that they see. Academically, it's no easier to gain admission to Tisch than it is to Steinhardt. The only thing that's different is the timing of the academic review. It's the same for E.D. as for R.D. You won't get a 'don't bother' message, sareccasmom. :)</p>
<p>Seconding AlwaysAMom....for Tisch, the academic review is going on simultaneously at admissions while the artistic reviews are conducted by Tisch. You get a final decision April 1. There is not an "invitation" to audition. There is no passing of one step to get to another. This was similar to every school my daughter applied at BUT UMich where the academic review came first and then an invitation to audition was made for students who "passed" that review. For all her other schools, including Tisch, she found out if she was admitted academically and for the BFA all in one envelope later in the year after auditions were done. </p>
<p>I realize there are some programs that let you know if you are admitted academically first and some kids on CC are applying to those and finding out already that they are "in" academically at some schools. Those just weren't on my D's list so was not our experience. </p>
<p>For Tisch you are all set for Feb. if your D has her appt. lined up. Those can be made starting Nov. 1. It is safe to make your air reservations if her appt. was confirmed. </p>
<p>Good luck. It sounds like you are on D #2 in this BFA process so you must be a pro! :D</p>
<p>Samia, following from your post, I was wondering if you could clarify your statement that you were accepted academically to NYU but not for the MT program. How did that work or were you told that? At NYU, you apply directly to a school, and in this case, that school is Tisch. There are other schools like CAS, Stern, Steinhardt, Gallatin, etc. In April, you are either admitted or not. I have not heard of someone who applied to Tisch who then was admitted to NYU academically but not to Tisch or not to CAP as you put it. I am wondering if you can explain so that those who are applying now are clear on how it works. </p>
<p>Your comments about the audition for CAP are valid and point out some aspects of their audition procedure or day that could be improved or differs from other MT auditions. I agree with some of the points you made and I have posted similar observations here. I am glad that we didn't judge the entire program on the set up of the audition day. It is natural to form judgements from these first exposures, and schools should think about the impressions formed at that juncture, but often how good the program itself is and how worthy the experience will be for you in it, cannot be determined from the procedures they used on audition day. I can say as much as I think some changes could be made to how they conduct the auditions, the program itself so far has been wonderful in my daughter's eyes. So if you can look at the whole picture beyond the visit day or audition day, it might be worth it. Also, the actual audition with the person was fine for my daughter but there are aspects of the set up or procedure that could be improved.</p>
<p>While it is an expensive school, those seeking financial aid should still apply as you do not know until you see the package you are offered. We were very pleased with the scholarship and financial aid and in fact it was the highest offer made and has cut the expense by a lot. I can't promise you that will happen but you don't know if you don't apply. My daughter's roommate is not rich either and she is in CAP. I do not know what she was offered of course. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>thank you so much for clearing that up! Yes, this is D #2, and I have learned a lot since D #1 applied to MT schools! ignorance was really bliss 5 years ago: we were totally clueless about MT schools, as was the guidance counselor at our high school, (she never had a student who wanted to be a MT major, of course!). She took a look at D #1 gpa and SAT scores and said blithely, "Oh yes, youll get in anywhere you apply!" so we blissfully set about applying for some (very few in fact ) MT colleges, completely unaware that so few students were accepted, competition was so fierce, etc.!! We didnt know that audition dates fill up, about a "cut" policy, merit scholarships, NADA! i dont think this site existed then, but if i had ever looked at it i would have had to be medicated! such a large volume of useful information! it would have, (and actually does) boggle my mind! What a fantastic resource for MT students and their parents! We were just plain lucky the first time out, this time around im touching all the bases!! (and driving D#2 crazy in doing so, but who cares? im making up for being so dumb the first time around!!)</p>
<p>Susan wrote: "As you can see, a significant percentage of the 3000 who audition are wanting CAP." </p>
<p>I agree</p>
<p>Maybe I didn't make that clear. That's what the advisor told me. That the vast majority of the kids who audition at Tisch are there for CAP, and that they fill many of the Tisch acting studios with those applicants. Meaning those who got rejected from CAP. </p>
<p>Understand?</p>
<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>
<p>to Jasmom,
I am so sorry. I just read your post.</p>
<p>I didn't mean to offend. I posted too bluntly. My appology.</p>
<p>Let me put it more delicately. Those I referred to were rejected from musical theatre, or received a rejection letter. They are not "rejects"</p>
<p>Thanks for the reminder to be more sensitive.</p>
<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>
<p>Mary Anna, your interpretation of what I wrote is simply not what I meant. When I said a "significant percentage of the 3000 who audition for Drama at Tisch specify CAP as their first choice", I was referring to the fact that 1500 of the 3000 who audition are trying for CAP. That is 50%. That is not a majority, that is simply a significant number of kids, simply put. Therefore 1500 kids are trying for the acting studios. About 220 slots are available in the acting studios. Most of those come from the 1500 who are trying for ACTING, NOT MT. I was saying that the admit rate for acting, therefore, is a higher acceptance rate than for MT because for MT you have 1500 trying for 80 slots. Most who are in Acting studios WANTED acting and are not MT "rejects". Some who wanted CAP as a first choice, who they could not place in CAP, but who they wanted in the drama dept., are placed into a second choice studio, often Stella or Playwrights. Some who I know had that happen, did not accept the offer, but chose another MT program because they wanted MT. The only people I know who still accepted such an offer are those who just really wanted to go to Tisch. My own kid probably would NOT have accepted an offer to another studio because she had four other MT BFA offers. I have met kids at other BFA programs who are in acting but wanted MT first. As mentioned, just at CMU I met some. My kid who auditioned for CMU for MT, was waitlisted for Acting. As great as CMU was, her passion is MT, so she would not have taken the acting offer. Same happens at Tisch. The majority in the acting studios were taken from the 1500 kids who specified acting as a first choice studio. But some who had it as a second choice after CAP, chose to take the offer. When my D auditioned at Syracuse and Ithaca, the audition form asked if she did not get offered a spot in MT, would she accept Acting and she wrote no. She got into MT but there ARE kids at those schools, like many others, where SOME in the acting program, had MT as a first choice but still opted to attend when given the Acting slot in the program. Some don't take such an offer. Same at Tisch. MOST in acting studios, wanted acting. Some in Stella, or Strasburg, or Playwrights wanted CAP but certainly there are many in those studios who wanted THOSE studios as their first choice. I know many in those studios, and in ETW too, who wanted those, NOT CAP. </p>
<p>Also the notion of those who are in other studios as being MT "rejects" implies they could not be admitted to MT BFA programs. The fact is, many who I know first hand who did not get into CAP but got another studio offered, got into MT programs at UMich, CCM, Ithaca, Emerson, Penn State, UMiami, and BOCO, so they chose to attend elsewhere. They were obviously talented at MT. The ones who still chose to go to Tisch for studios such as Playwrights or Adler, just really wanted to attend Tisch.</p>
<p>I do not know how you got from my post that I was saying that the acting studios are made up of MT rejects as I not only did not mean that but it is not true. Are you saying that the kids in the seven acting studios come from the 1500 trying for CAP? What happened to the other 1500 who did not want CAP and who did not even sing at their auditions? </p>
<p>Please try to post accurate information so that those applying will go by what the facts are. Also, I had already clarified my comments once after they were misinterpretted but I feel you are again trying to use my comment that a "significant number wanted CAP" as if to say a majority wanted CAP. Half of those who auditioned for Tisch wanted CAP. Some accounts I have heard of have the percentage as even LESS. If you look at many of the BFA programs where there is both an Acting BFA AND a MT BFA, it is not unheard of that about half want the MT BFA. At MOST schools, the admit rate into the MT BFA is a lower percentage than the acceptance rate into the Acting BFA at the very same school. Tisch is no different that way. The odds of admission into the MT programs are tougher odds than into the acting BFA but the odds into the ACTING BFA are clearly quite selective too. </p>
<p>I HOPE I have clarified what my point was because what you inferred or attributed to my statements is not what I meant. </p>
<p>I understand if you misunderstood me but I want to speak for what I meant, as well to make sure that those who are contemplating this school, have the correct information as given by the heads of the school itself as recently as two weeks ago.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Maryanna, I'm afraid your post #25 did not clarify ANYthing. I don't mean to belabor the point but the information which you have now stated again, is absolutely inaccurate and it does not do anyone, including prospective applicants, any good to continue to see it stated by you as if it were fact.
Susan has made an excellent response to your post but I want to point out categorically that this statement of yours:</p>
<p>"That the vast majority of the kids who audition at Tisch are there for CAP, and that they fill many of the Tisch acting studios with those applicants. Meaning those who got rejected from CAP. Understand?"</p>
<p>is untrue. As I stated in my previous response to you, the majority of kids in each studio (other than CAP), in every year, are kids who auditioned for the straight acting studios at Tisch, not kids who auditioned for CAP21 and were 'rejected'. It's not a question of you being 'indelicate', you are not being factual. In answer to your question, yes, I do understand. And I hope that now that you've, hopefully, read Susan's and my responses, you understand, too. This process is difficult and stressful enough for the auditioning kids, especially at this time of year, without confusing them even more with inaccurate information.</p>
<p>Soozie - I can't fully answer your question about my academic acceptance to NYU, because my father shamelessly held the reins on all of my college applications when I auditioned the first time around. He managed to apply both for MT and liberal arts (or otherwise straight academics) at NYU, and I'm not sure exactly how he did it, but I ended up getting two letters in the mail, one accepting me for academics, and one rejecting me from CAP21. I'm sure it involved a lot of correspondence with the admissions people, but I don't have details, and since then, the HUGE NYU file he kept has gone missing. (My dad is a lawyer, and he's very thorough about keeping files - he had seven humongous files, one for each school I auditioned at last time, and he had several copies of EVERY e-mail he sent to them or they sent to him, and EVERY little thing they sent in the mail, it was insane. Only the FSU and UArts files are still around though, I don't know what happened to the others.)</p>
<p>Sorry I can't provide a better answer, but I really wasn't in control of things back then. Honestly, I regret that - I was too immature to realize that, while my dad had good intentions, he was really doing me a disservice by not requiring me to do any of the work myself. Literally, he would say, here's an essay question, write me this essay by the end of week, or sign these papers so I can mail them off to the school. And he would prepare presentations on the pros and cons of on-campus living at different schools or within the same school, etc. It was crazy, and I didn't have to do ANY work aside from the essays and preparing my audition. I think if I had had to do all that stuff myself, I would have done better at the auditions as a result of all that time spent researching, etc. I just wasn't really given the chance; every time I set my mind to doing something like that, my dad would say he'd already done it and he needed the computer to file my FAFSA, so move. Seriously.</p>
<p>Samia, I appreciate your honesty and attempt to explain. I don't quite sure how he managed to have you applying to two schools at NYU as I don't think it is possible but who knows and it does not matter now. I just did not understand your post on that before. Also if a prospective student/parent were to read that you got in academically but not into CAP, they may think such a thing is possible but it is not at NYU. At some schools, THAT IS possible. NYU is set up with different "schools" within the university and you can only apply to one and not be considered at the others. To go to school "academically" at NYU, you might be talking, if liberal arts, the College of Arts and Sciences. If someone applies to Tisch and doesn't get the BFA in Drama, they can't then just attend Tisch or another school at NYU academically.</p>
<p>The other part you wrote about is too bad but I think you have learned from that and matured and are more independent now and have been to college and all, and will take the process by the reins. You are on this forum even to gain more knowledge right there. As a college counselor, I see some instances like you describe and it really is not ideal. A student needs to own this process and be invested in it. He/she is the one going off to college. This is her future. This is one of the first big decisions she will make about it. Even on the college applications, it is important to be able to articulate why you want to attend that specific school and for specific reasons, and a student who has not truly explored that school, really can't come up with any genuine specific interest. I see this in certain families where the student was not that involved. I also see it as a college interviewer which is something else that I do. </p>
<p>In my opinion, there are two extremes. One is like you described where the parent takes over the process. In some families, the parent finds the schools and selects where the child will apply. The parent does all the contact with the school (though some general logistics like lining up auditions is not what I am talking about which is fine). The parent is writing the resume and on and on. The student practicially does nothing but essays and auditions. Not only isn't the student invested in really picking the school, but also not in what it takes to get in. This same student all of a sudden has to be independent in an intense program months later. </p>
<p>The other extreme are kids whose parents, for whatever reason, are not involved at all. They are either disinterested, do not have the time, or do not have the knowledge of how to help. I see some kids post on CC all the time who are wishing their parents would help. They ask parents on CC to help them pick the colleges, edit the essays and so forth. There is so much to do with college admissions, as well as the visits and all, that it is very hard for a teen to be doing it all alone. </p>
<p>What I prefer to see or what I believe in, is where the student is selecting where she wants to apply, explores those schools, meets with faculty and students on campus, does the various email contacts, does the applications, and so on, but the parent is there to guide or facilitate and to be there to do some secretarial tasks, to look things over, to conference with the child when each step gets done, to discuss it, and then also to take them to visits and auditions and lessons and that sort of support. The parents can be a great resource to the student if they take the time to do some research online or read CC (!) and then can share things with the student. The decision of where to attend should be up to the student. The parents, if they wish or need to, can set any financial restrictions or location restrictions as that is their perogative, though not all do and we didn't do that. </p>
<p>I think you now see the limitations of having had the parent take over your process. You've grown and can now take control and assert independence and own your process. As you know, work ethic is going to be a BIG factor in your success in a BFA program, so might as well start with the admissions process (or ideally before that point). </p>
<p>I applaud you for self assessing and learning and growing. You likely will be an even better candidate this time as you have not only done the admissions process once and seen the pitfalls, but have also been in a BFA program before and know where you need to grow and learn. I wish you well on your process.
Susan</p>
<p>My D will be auditioning ED for Musical Theatre at NYU on November 19th - with the Advanced Dance Component. CAP 21 is her first choice of studio.</p>
<p>BUT - she considers herself an ACTRESS - and she would HAPPILY accept another studio placement. AND - she would NOT consider it a 'rejection' of her talent. One of the things she likes about the studio system at NYU - is the ability to move to another studio - for a different type of training after the completion of a second year at her first studio. </p>
<p>The academics at NYU attracted her - NYC attracted her and the studio system attracted her.</p>
<p>One of my good friends won. a Tony on Broadway as "Featured Actress in a Musical" She is a Juilliard grad in Drama. Not a school known for MT.</p>
<p>There are many paths to the light.</p>
<p>janenw</p>
<p>Hi Jane, your post reminded me of several things that you pointed out. I also agree that the studio system is set up so that after two years you can switch studios. As well, there are many people who come out of acting programs who go into musical theater. In fact, there are many in the acting programs at Tisch who are cast in musicals. Some are great singers. My daughter is in an coed a capella group and maybe about one third or less of the kids in this group actually are in CAP, the rest are in other studios and couple are not even in Tisch. They have amazing voices. I know some really talented MT kids who opted to do acting studios at Tisch as their FIRST choice. I also believe Idina Menzel came out of an acting studio at Tisch. And I also know a very talented MT girl at Juilliard for acting too. My own daughter thinks that she'd love Playwrights Horizons studio and had it as a second choice because she actually loves alot of the facets of theater that PH lets you do. She loves to write shows, direct them, musical direct and choreograph. It is just that her heart right now is in going for the MT training but she knows she would have also enjoyed a program like PH. Many who do not get CAP are willing to do another studio and still can go on in the MT world for a career. I can think of some wonderfully talented MT kids my D knows from her theater camp who even opted for the other studios at Tisch as their FIRST choice.</p>
<p>I can't imagine even thinking that those who did not get CAP but were assigned another studio could be thought in terms of "MT rejects" because the kids this past year that we know who didn't get CAP but were assigned an acting studio, got into some pretty selective BFA MT programs so they are qualified MT candidates but simply Tisch placed them in a different studio. These particular friends who wanted MT, opted to not take the acting studios. My D did not say "CAP or nothing" at her RD audition (which you CAN do) and gave Playwrights as her second choice and Adler as her third because she wanted the option of going to those studios if she was accepted to Tisch, if CAP was not an option, and would then decide amongst all her acceptances, if she were lucky enough to have some other choices. She did end up getting into CAP and did end up with some other BFA MT acceptances that she liked very much so it never came to that. But she WOULD have considered those studios depending on the options she was given in spring. The acting studios are hardly a consolation prize. Those who wanted CAP but got an acting studio often could have done a BFA in MT elsewhere but chose to go to Tisch because they wanted TISCH. Tisch for DRAMA is outstanding. Picking a school is about fit. Some who want Tisch also want a school where there is a challenging liberal arts component and where that is a valued part of the education. So some might have still opted to go to Tisch to an acting studio, even if they had tried for CAP, and even if they had some MT options elsewhere because this was a college that "fit" what they were looking for in other respects. Some kids want a conservatory style training but also fine academics as they are very good students and find Tisch appealing for their educational goals.</p>
<p>To go into musical theater, you certainly can study to be an actor. You can supplement that study with voice lessons and dance classes. It is not like the door to becoming a musical theater actress is shut if you do not do a BFA in MT. I am counseling someone right now who I think would do best in an Acting BFA or even BA at a school where there are MT opportunities as well. I don't think this closes him out of MT work but seems like the best educational path for him at the moment. I also know some superbly talented MT kids who are opting to go the BA route and are looking at schools like Brown or Yale. </p>
<p>Read any Playbill and it is so clear that many who "make it" did not come out of a BFA in MT program. You are so right on the "many paths"! Thank you for pointing out that the students in acting studios can and do go on in MT but also how at Tisch, students can switch studios after two years in their primary studio. While rare, my D's good friend has switched into CAP this year after one year in another studio. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Jane, my daughter had the good fortune to perform for a few years with an actress in a two person musical opera with symphonies around the country. This actress has a BFA in ACTING from CMU. She has one of the best voices I have ever heard. She is a soprano and has been in three Broadway musicals. She has also understudied for Audra MacDonald. She also performs in operas and I think now has her own opera company. And she can ACT!!</p>
<p>Thank you for your very kind words, Soozie. They mean more to me than you know.</p>
<p>I have been a "lurker" for quite some time and finally decided that it was time to chime in. My d is a junior in one of the acting programs at Tisch. She did not want cap21 as she considers herself an actor first and that is what she wanted to focus on. She loves NYU! It was by far her first choice. But there are a few things that have concerned her over the years (which is why I am reluctant to give her studio, because I would never want her to be penalized in any way for things she has said to me that I am posting here). </p>
<p>First of all, let me say that this school is an amazing place with incredible faculty and mostly top notch students. It is a wonderful place for superior training. But let me also say that my daughter has said that after talking with friends in other studios, she feels that there are students that get accepted to many of the studios (cap21 included) to do not belong there. Many are children of prestige or "big name" families but some are not. Who knows how they got in. Maybe someone just saw something in them at the time that never materialized.</p>
<p>I would imagine this can happen anywhere, but in schools with lower acceptance rates, I would think there just isn't the space to provide for this. Tisch is huge....their programs are very large...they can squeeze in a few kids here and there who may not be as gifted of performers.</p>
<p>Do I think that my daughter's education is lacking? NO! Definitely not. She feels that there is no better place for her. I couldn't see a better place for her either! </p>
<p>Back to the original question is NYU easy admittance? No! Not at all. It may be a little easier than a Michigan or CMU for example. Yes, 1500 kids may want cap21, but if half of them don't qualify academically (and I'm sure it's probably more) 80 kids accepted out of 600 or 700 who may qualify is about an 11- 13% acceptance rate. Easy....not in the slightest. For the acting studios, the percentage is even higher but still not easy. </p>
<p>For those applying, Best of Luck to you! NYU is a great place that provides a suburb education. And yes, as Soozievt said don't exclude it because of the cost. You may qualify for money or scholarships you didn't know you could get.</p>
<p>I'd like to reply to several comments that have been made about Drama at NYU that contain misconceptions.</p>
<p>Regarding our musical theatre program: This is an acting program that trains singers and dancers. Being a belter is not helpful if your head voice is not also developed. In fact, belting can be destructive to the voice without developing the head voice. You must be equally strong as an actor to any musical theatre skills you may possess. We have 1,000 applicants to our musical theatre program annually. We select 75 in order to make a class of 64. </p>
<p>Regarding taking a second choice studio for students who are not selected to the musical theatre program. With the huge number of applicants we have, not all the talented people who audition can be accepted into that studio. We ask our applicants to musical theatre if they might be interested in a second choice studio if they are not chosen for musical theatre. There is no obligation to have a second choice and it has no bearing on whether or not an applicant is accepted into musical theatre. If fact, we urge our applicants please not to say they have a second choice if they cannot be happy studying in a non-musical studio. Once the determination has been made about the musical theatre class for these applicants, we then examine if these students have the "chops" to do well in a non-musical acting studio. If we feel that they do, they are invited to take their second choice. If a student is rejected for the program, he/she is not invited to the second choice. We maintain the quality of all our studios equally. We currently accept 15% to 17% from the 2,500 to 3,000 applicants we have for all studios. Students who accept a non-musical studio do not have the opportunity to move to musical theatre once they are in the program until they have completed two years in the non-musical studio.</p>
<p>Sincerely,
Arthur Bartow
Artistic Director
Tisch Drama</p>
<p>Mr. Bartlow,</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your information! The information on belting was very helpful in that my daughter is not a huge belter but does have a very strong head voice. It's nice to know that not everyone has to be the big belter. </p>
<p>Thanks for your time!</p>
<p>kaysmom</p>
<p>Mr. Bartlow,
Thanks so very much for coming here to clear up the misconceptions. That is so helpful!
Chrism</p>
<p>thanks for posting here.
Good info and very concise, I appreciate that.</p>
<p>knowledge is power</p>
<p>xxx,Mary Anna</p>
<p>Thank you, Mr. Bartow, for posting that information. It is always beneficial to get it right from the source. It is of concern if students or parents read a message board to glean information about these programs and get the wrong information. The information you have posted is direct (and is exactly what I have heard directly at Tisch in several presentaions now) and so hopefully any misconceptions on this board can be clarified. I appreciate your coming forth to let readers hear from the source!</p>
<p>My daughter is a freshman in CAP21 and is loving it to the Nth degree so far. She had wanted to go there since she was a young girl and now that she is there, it is apparent that it is an excellent "fit" for her. She finds that she is learning so much already. She also has had some exciting experiences there.</p>
<p>Susan</p>