<p>I think they have a problem alot of families around the country have. They should just put we make x and it costs y to live here z. </p>
<p>It costs to live anywhere, that's why they aren't getting a sympathic ear.</p>
<p>Instead as I read, I kind of do a slow burn. The problem isn't the cost of living, it's the cost of lifestyle that's expensive. If you're gonna live and two incomes and spend on two incomes, you'll always be in a crunch.. in NJ, OK, WA, CA or anywhere else. </p>
<p>American's have the most horrific savings habits of the industrialized world. Two incomes and trouble meeting bills. Stop buying wants, change habits. </p>
<p>What many families (apparently these haven't yet) is sometimes you have to say "no, it's not going to happen". "You decision will have to be based on what we (you, your mom and I) can actually do. Not what we'd LIKE to do."</p>
<p>It's OK to say "no, we can't afford that." Your kid will still love you. I've been saying "no" to a horse for 15 years, but I add to my d, you certainly can buy your own after college if you still want to. Maybe to some here because I said no to my D, I'm not the best parent I can be. Doesn't matter, I can't afford to be the best parent, just a realistic one.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The problem isn't the cost of living, it's the cost of lifestyle that's expensive.
[/quote]
Not necessarily.</p>
<p>Property taxes & car insurance are not based on lifestyle at all. We can't control them. Your wife is a teacher, so if your health care costs are similar to the teachers' deal in NJ, you pay nothing toward your health insurance. That's quite a rare benefit & most of us have no such lucky break. </p>
<p>We're not talking about luxury. We're talking about the necessary costs of life: Car maintenance & repair, food, home repairs like new roofs & furnaces --- all big $$$ in high cost-of-living areas. State income taxes. City taxes in some areas. Even higher costs for in-state tuition at public schools. We need to put $$$ away for retirement. We feel obliged to tithe, if possible, to churches & worthy charities. </p>
<p>I'm not wearing Manola Blahniks. And my kids have heard the word "no" so often, they no longer bother to ask for unreasonable things. If your D is still asking for a horse after 15 years, she deserves points for persistence!</p>
<p>Stony Brook may be a great opportunity for the right student. It is certainly dirt cheap and for my D even less. She had merit scholarships for more than the cost of tuition and fees. My D investigated the music opportunities. There is a super studio head, but she was told, sorry no exceptions. Undergrad students receive instruction from grad students and the studio head was only allowed to teach grad students. She was told that if she was serious about music, she should consider going elsewhere. She also investigated the science programs. These are also especially good at the graduate level, but modest at the undergrad level. Certainly not too bad, I believe SB did make it into the top 100 USNWR ranking.</p>
<p>It does not sound as though these NJ/NY (L.I.) folks are living lavishly. And yes the home equity should probably be considered as a method of funding your S or D's education. That having been said how long a horizon do most of us have to pay back that home equity loan. My neighbor just finished putting his kid through Princeton, paid for by a home equity loan he intended to pay off sooner rather than later. His particular insurance company than looked around and said let's get rid of these late forty, 100k a year types, before they become fully vested for retirement purposes. He is now in bankruptcy. Saving money obviously is huge, but can you save enough to keep pace with tuition increases that are duoble the rate of inflation. I'd be interested to know where it stops. It would seem twenty years from now, when a private LAC education cost half a mil. something will have to give. Salaries and savings are just not keeping pace. Even as well as real estate has done.. you're still going to be behind the power curve. Any predictions??</p>
<p>I am glad I was sitting when someone posted by implication that Honolulu has a low cost of living (would have fallen over otherwise)--would that be why so many folks have multiple full-time jobs? Our cost of real estate is always up there among the highest in the nation/world, as is our cost of gas (currently nearly $2.77/gallon at Costco for "cheap" gas) & groceries. Our income tax is pretty hefty as well. It is true that we don't have heating bills, but we have high heat & humidity & to get anywhere off tie island you're on involves airfare. Property taxes increase every year & rentals are often $2000+ for a simple two bedroom place. We have no mass transit other than a disjointed bus system that only serves Oahu.
Wages in Hawaii tend to be low while costs tend to be high, making it very tough for many/most & lots of multi-generational families because folks can't afford a place of their own.</p>
<p>It stops when we want it to stop. Education at a brand name school is an extravagant luxury--not a necessity. Most of us have limited resources to devote to such luxuries. It is a question of allocation of priorities</p>
<p>Sticker shock - that was my point. When kids in the northeast say it's harder to get in, I think this is the kind of thing they're talking about. The standard for NMFinalist is not the same in every state - same test, lower standard for some. </p>
<p>How about this for a discussion item. Harvard and Princeton, I believe, have said they won't give loans to families earning under $60,000. Should that be adjusted by state? Few public school teachers in South Dakota come close to making that much but a teacher on Long Island can make over $100,000.</p>
<p>I don't know where it stops either. But I do know that no area of the country has the market cornered on difficulty in financing college costs. Those of us in lower costs of living areas have no hopes of six figure school teacher's wages and there has never been a real estate bubble here for an average Joe to accumulate $100,000-$500,000 of wealth for sitting on their rear. A home purchased by me in 1982 for $84,000 just sold. The asking price was $129,000 (I don't know the selling price.) $45K in 24 years (offset by inflation, repairs , and remodels.). </p>
<p>Now if we could have your wages and property appreciation and our COL, that'd be great. Nah. They'd just find a way to take that, too. ;)</p>
<p>There are many factors that are part of the college decision making process. One thing I learned from Finance is that you need to analyze the return on investment and not just focus on the investment/expense. That is, I would gladly spend $250,000 for an education if I can help my S or D obtain $15,000,000 of income over 30-40 years of their working careers. ( 30 x 50K) This is only a small part of the discount cash flow analysis that can be done.</p>
<p>That said, I would hesitate to even spend $100,00 if I did not think that there career choices could make enough money in return for the capital invested.</p>
<p>This type of analysis might be helpful by removing the emotions from the college decision process.</p>
<p>I am glad I was sitting when someone posted by implication that Honolulu has a low cost of living (would have fallen over otherwise)--would that be why so many folks have multiple full-time jobs?
read my post again- that wasn't what I implied :)
not my intention anyway
I was comparing costs of New York City- which is one of the most expensive places in the country- saying that you would save a couple hundred by living in Honolulu ( not counting taxes) from living in Manhattan- isn't the same as saying Hawaii is inexpensive , is it?</p>
<p>I suspect that living in the heartland with a lower income could work out to be not much different than having a high income and high COL. Things like the Iraq "war" are what really gets to me. Somehow the George Bush's of the world just don't get it. How many hundreds of billions of dollars have we spent? How far would that money have gone to improve inner city and other poor secondary schools? How much would have been left over to help with some tax breaks or loan support to make college more afforadable?</p>
<p>Around 1982, where I live, I think there were some homes selling for $150,000. Maybe those homes were 1,000 to 1400 square feet. They are now around 1 million but there is probably an additional $100,000 in remodeling costs in these homes. </p>
<p>A family of four that makes $75,000 in household income is close to the poverty level. </p>
<p>So many people can now borrow against the equity in their home, but many can't pay the loans back. So they move. But many people don't want to leave the place where they grew up or have family, friends, jobs, etc.</p>
<p>"We're not talking about luxury. We're talking about the necessary costs of life: Car maintenance & repair, food, home repairs like new roofs & furnaces --- all big $$$ in high cost-of-living areas. State income taxes. City taxes in some areas. Even higher costs for in-state tuition at public schools. We need to put $$$ away for retirement. We feel obliged to tithe, if possible, to churches & worthy charities. "</p>
<p>But SS, </p>
<p>My point in relative terms it's not any or more or less in relative terms depending on where you live. Taxes, fuel and all that are expensive here too. Health Care as well and no, it's not all covered. It's just as tough to live in Mississippi on Mississippi wages as it is to live in NJ on Jersey wages. That is why it is hard to gain sympathy when someone talks about making 6 figures combined and having to pay 6 figures to live. It's the same all over just give or take a zero. </p>
<p>In any region or location, there will be costs you can't control or easily adjust. However, there are also ones you can. It also comes down to being realistic about what's possible with kids. It sounds like you do this, just as we do. There's wants and needs in life, some fret over what they want and get little sympathy. Boy, I sound liberal here don't I?</p>
<p>I don't know what the return is? Tell me what jobs/careers these different costs are associated with?</p>
<p>One example that can be made is what if a student can obtain the same job/career by attending the $80k college or the $200k college. From a pure numbers standpoint, all other things being equal, I would say goto the $80k school.</p>
<p>Now we all know that not every school is created equal, not every program in the same school is equal, not every student in the same school/college will have the same experience. So, costs are only one factor in the decision making process.</p>
<p>So much of college financial decisions are just focused on costs. I think that it may be healthly to look at (career earnings)/college costs. Or another way is to amortize the college costs over the lifetime of the student.</p>
<p>How many hundreds of billions of dollars have we spent? How far would that money have gone to improve inner city and other poor secondary schools?
thats the reasoning that pro-levy advocates are using for the election next week- even though that part of the taxes will be used to renovate some buildings which can't be permanent fixes because of environmental concerns at the same time we are ( supposedly) closing other buildings.</p>
<p>However- some of us don't think it is the building that defines the education & don't trust the district not to continue its top heavy administration instead of addressing the needs of the students</p>
<p>I hope you aren't implying that there is something wrong with living in a house that is 1000 sq ft ;)
Our house is 995ft and 106 years old & we have lived here for 24 years- yes with one bathroom.( which was added on after the house was built!)
To be honest we never expected to stay this long- otherwise I might have chosen a little larger house- like maybe one with * closets? where the heck did they put their clothes?*-</p>
<p>That cost of living is not adjusted for need is an issue, in my opinion. When we moved here to the NYC area from the midwest, finding a home that was "close" to what we had there was a challenge. The appreciation from our old house was not great, since homes there simply do not sky rocket in price. Here the housing prices do. We looked for over a year, futiley trying to find some match in amenities without paying through the nose. Not possible. Folks who have moved here recently are paying very high amounts relative to income, not because they want a luxery home, but they want a neighborhood with folks that have values like theirs, a good school district, safety, and other amenties that are really common sense in looking for a family home. And those who have been here a while with incomes that did not go up that much may be sittiing on some home equity, but borrowing it means another payment which may not be affordable, and selling a home is really not a move to take lightly, especially if there are other children still at home. I am not talking about those sitting in houses that take your breath away as true luxeries. These are house that would not go for 6 figures from where we used to live, sitting on far less property. One father I know says he is borrowing full amounts from PLUS for his kids' education and will shoot himself to death when the last one finishes collegs. Black humor, yes, but the financial planning aspect of it......, well.</p>