@CS2GO Our income is similar and we got no financial aid for our middle daughter, so we did not bother to apply for the youngest one. She did get a lot of merit money (8 out of 12 schools gave here between $4,000-$20,000/year) – of course she picked the school that gave her none! Merit money, as I’m sure you know, is not need based, but based on the student having stats above that school’s average and/or coming from a geographical location that the school is trying to attract. No need to apply; it’s reviewed with the application. I laugh/cry when I hear our income means we can pay an EFC of $90,000/year for college. In what universe? In northern NJ, our income buys us a very middle of the road life, though I am thankful for it…
The good news is that NO college costs $90,000 a year. All this means is that you won’t receive need based aid at any college. You will pay the full cost to attend regardless of the college.
At your NJ publics, costs would be 1/3 of that $90,000 a year…or so.
NJ is expensive in some areas…but with a $90,000 family contribution, your income is near or above $300,000 a year and/or you have significant assets. @My3Daughters I agree, you have much to be thankful for.
We live in CA and yes, the high cost of living/housing means our income doesn’t go as far as it would in other places and we also don’t qualify for financial aid. But our situation is in no way comparable to households living in real poverty, who are food insecure, housing insecure. We’ve told our high stat kid that we can pay for a state school (UC/CSU) and/or if he gets merit aid at a school that cuts the cost down to something similar, we can make that work, as well. We’re under no assumption that he’s entitled to an Ivy education just because he’s smart. We’d rather he graduate debt free and have more options for grad school, for travel, for taking risks while he’s young and not being burdened by monthly loan payments. That’s the gift our income can give him and while it may not be the elite school experience in the prettiest buildings, I can only see it as a glass half full. We are very fortunate compared to many, even most.
@My3Daughters – Look, I’m not questioning anyone’s individual finances, but an income big enough for a 90K EFC is not middle of the road, not even here in northern NJ. It may feel like it because you live among others with similar income, but the vast majority of us here live on a fraction of that income, even us middle class folk.
But i think that’s the issue with the original post. People start thinking that these higher incomes are the norm, when they’re not, and then imagine one couldn’t live on the two-thirds or half of it that would allow for those EFCs. But most of your area is already doing that, just maybe not your particular neighborhood and town.
And again, I don’t know your particulars, so that’s a virtual “you” not a personal one. It’s just the general idea that that level of income is normal or necessary in our area that I question.
There is some unfairness in the financial aid equations, particularly (IMHO) in that cost of living is not taken into account. $150K in SF or NYC and their suburbs does not go as far as it would in Pittsburgh or Omaha and some other factors.
That being said, the idea that being poor and therefore eligible for finanicial aid and government programs is an advantage is absurd. Poor kids are unlikely to even consider college. The kids you read about who overcame homelessness to get to Harvard are exceedingly rare. Questbridge is very competitive. The number of kids from the bottom 20% going to elite colleges is very small. Going to a failing high school, being food insecure, having no support for learning are huge obstacles, among many others faced by poor kids. Almost all of us on these boards are privleged as are our kids. Yes, it was frustrating that even with two incomes my kids could not go to their top choices because they were too costly, but they got great educations and are none the worse for that.
“I just find it ridiculous to add all possible need based aid, demographic based scholarship and merit from all B, C, D grade colleges and flaunting it as getting millions. One person can only attend one school and not all freebies are merit.”
As the parent of a D20 that will probably very happily attend a “B” school I find this so insulting. Apparently kids don’t matter if they are not attending an Ivy or a T20 school? My daughter works extremely hard for her grades and deserves to be recognized just as much as a kid who is heading to an Ivy. We wonder why kids only aim for the T20’s on CC and it’s this attitude that is exactly the reason why. Apparently only the “best” schools are worth attending.
Is it at all possible to discuss the idea that cost of living should be a factor in FAFSA without getting into the discussion about whether poor people deserve FA or blaming people who live in high cost of living areas for their choices?
@Thumper1. Its not $90,000 - but we had to turn down my son’s place at NYU, Tisch (Clive Davis Institute) as it was $83,000/year. Even after the hefty scholarship - it would have been obscenely expensive - and son is a twin
Once you break open the seal of having government pick winners and losers by adjusting the FAFSA by location, you open it up to political meddling. It is also a net subsidy to high cost areas. And it is perfectly reasonable to expect people to move to a low cost area if it is important to them. We don’t restrict people’s movement like other countries. The government is already too involved in college finance and that’s why we taxpayers will be on the hook for billions in student loan default. Who knows what new mess they would obligate us for?
COL should definitely be a factor. Living in NE NJ, we are solid middle class. 1800 square foot house, vehicles over 10 years old, vacations are rare. We have been responsible and funded our retirement, but are not eligible for FA. We’ve set aside about $30,000 for each child in 529’s (5 kids), but they will need to pay back loans for the rest (in state public tuition with R/B around $30,000 a year). NJ schools do not give a lot in merit, or have generous scholarships for top students (Dd is 8th in her class, 34 ACT, 4.2 GPA, all honors/AP classes, Rutgers offered $5000). Unfortunately we did not save up over a half million to send our kids to in state public universities.
@TooOld4School I respectfully disagree that it is perfectly reasonable to expect people to move to lower cost of living areas. In some professions, it’s quite difficult for a couple to find jobs in the same region, much less the same city. It’s nearly impossible for many professionals to find two jobs at the same time in a low cost of living area. Of course, this varies by profession, but many of the jobs of the 21st century are very much centered around the Bay Area, SoCal, and Seattle–all very expensive areas.
@TooOld4School well yes. There are very few things that the government does well. Police and fire…I’m thinking, I’m thinking…
@MAmom111 My kids would be somewhat of a reach for Ivies, and my father and grandfather both went to Yale, but I didn’t want them to go to Ivies and they had no interest. Ivies do give you networking and get you your first job, but my husband, a Physicist from MIT said his colleagues from ITT tech were just as sharp as those with “better” education.
COL adjustment makes no sense. Of course $200k goes a lot further in Omaha than in NYC, but the person earning $200k in NYC would not be earning that in Omaha. In NYC, many jobs pay $200k. How many jobs in Omaha have that salary? High COL and high pay influence each other.
Cost of living is more of a choice then people think. We see that on the threads that ask OPs where the low income people live – even CA and NY have them – and why can’t they find less expensive housing in those areas and the response always is well, we mean there aren’t any less expensive homes in safe areas. Or with good schools. So you’re choosing safety and the quality of education over saving money. That’s perfectly reasonable. But then don’t expect the same aid as the low income family who’s living in the not so safe area with the lower quality schools.
You know what low income people do when there are two job offers and only one is within commuting distance of a reasonably priced home? They choose which spouse gets to accept the offer because that’s what they can afford. They don’t have the luxury of career fulfillment for both.
Right there with you @maycar . Our situations sound very similar. I’m very, very glad like you, we were very clear with our high stats about kid what her college budget was early on (9th grade). Very grateful that we have the UCs! And also very grateful that she got some great merit and some out of state schools.
@ccprofandmomof2 I agree. People also forget that salaries are often lower in lower cost of living areas. I would make a lot less if I lived in a lower cost area. Yes, if we moved to a lower cost area we could live in a bigger house. But, we don’t care about a big house. We care about living in a nice area with low crime, etc.
interesting you assume career fulfillment. I hate my job, but I can’t afford to live here and not take the job that pays more than the job I want, partially because I have to pay tuition based on what our income is today. I told my husband I was going to quit and he talked me out of it. Even if I lost my job or took a low paying job that would give me satisfaction, they’d look at my house value (which is just paper money) and still deny financial aid. But okay, I should mortgage my house (which I’m counting on for retirement _ I do have some through 401K but not enough to live for the years I expect because longevity after retirement runs in our family) to pay for my kids college. I also got the advice that there is no financial aid for retirement but there is for college - Guess my financial advisor assumed with my income, and where we live, we’d at least get some
@maycar well said! I feel the same way! And that was the situation for our family!
@TooOld4School I was on vacation a year ago in New Orleans…I had never seen so many homeless in my life, way more then in California. Homelessness is not just a California issue.
Well, UC Berkeley is just one UC campus. Maybe if people valued education more and were willing to pay more taxes they could put more money into making Berkeley look immaculate. But, then again people ■■■■■ and moan about how high tuition is. You can’t have i
Also like the assumptions that we live in big houses. I live in a 1600 sq ft townhouse that now goes for a million! A million for that? We bought it for less, but not as investment, because it was all we could afford and all we can afford even now because everything else is much more.
We couldn’t even buy this shack (literally) listed at 1.8 mil
https://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/million-dollar-shack/index.html
Or maybe you’d like this dilapidated house gutted by fire for $800k (okay it looks big, but…)
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/a-burned-out-silicon-valley-house-is-now-on-the-market-for-800000.html