<p>People on these boards always cite HYPS as being the best schools. Do you know what school comes directly after these four? Penn. Everybody likes to hate but according to the rankings it's the best school besides HYPS, so maybe it should be HYPSP instead?</p>
<p>or not? 1 0</p>
<p>US news is by no means the be all and end all of rankings. Regardless of how good Penn is, it will always be right next to columbia just outside the door to being HYPS</p>
<p>yeah i mean penn is an ivy, but its rank was quite high in U.S. News this year, by most in the academic world, it's considered a "second tier Ivy" (which is still better than 99.5% of universities out there) along with columbia and probably dartmouth</p>
<p>When we start talking about "second tier Ivies" is when this forum starts getting ridiculous.</p>
<p>Penn is "the best" in some ways. It has "the best" undergraduate business program in the country, "the best" (or among "the best") resources on the Ancient Near East, and a linguistics department that many consider "the best." I'm sure there are others. My favorite contemporary poet teaches at Penn. I don't think that counts.</p>
<p>And I'll agree with other posters that a student may prefer Penn to HYP. Students and resources at all of these schools are relatively comparable.</p>
<p>If I had to sum it up, I'd say this.</p>
<p>Undergrad:
(1) Princeton
(2) Yale
(3) Harvard
(4) Stanford
(5) MIT
(6) Penn
(7) Columbia
(8) Dartmouth
(9) CalTech (it's just really concentrated for my taste, could be higher)
(10) UChicago</p>
<p>Difference between these schools, undergraduate level, is negligible. It really is just a matter of who's name is known more, who has the most money, who has 20 more points on the SAT etc. IMO, universities separate themselves in graduate studies more than anything, in which case Penn would probably have to be Top 5 with Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Columbia. I can't think of many other schools besides those four that come close to offering the expertise that Penn can on either the undergrad or grad level, let alone both.</p>
<p>What's Penn?</p>
<p>^Someplace better than Yale</p>
<p>Go Penn! :)</p>
<p>I for one heart Penn and wouldn't want to be anywhere else.</p>