<p>2 different posters:
Valemom’s D is looking at $80,000 undergrad debt at NYU vs UVM
Brooklynborndad’s D is looking at $120,000 undergrad debt at Leigh vs. RPI</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Valemom - When my D was considering NYU we were also concerned about the amount of money we would have to come up with. D asked about getting a 1 year deferral so she could work full time and help save up for the next year and she was told that should not be a problem. She ended up choosing a different school but it was nice to know that was an option if she had decided she wanted to attend NYU. Good luck!</p>
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<p>If you believe this to be true, why in the world would you co-sign 120K or 80K or even 40K worth of debt for your child? Surely someone who believes that people can live happily in an attic believes that college is what the student makes of it.</p>
<p>The vast majority of 18 year olds have no concept of what it means to come up with 1K+ a month just for student loans. The adults in their life have to be the ones bringing common sense to the equation. The fact is that kind of debt shuts out a lot of options in their post-coligate life.</p>
<p>*I also find the equation of education with a pure consumer good like a wedding or vacation rubs me the wrong way. *</p>
<p>Well, when the subject is “a more expensive education than necessary” then it can be compared to a consumer good, because at that point, the excessive money spent is a LUXURY. </p>
<p>No one would compare the **necessary **costs of a good education with a vacation/wedding.</p>
<p>Brooklynborndad,
Unless you are willing to take on the 80k in debt yourself (which is an option),</p>
<p>Very good point.</p>
<p>Wow, lots of input… thank! I left out a lot of details that would probably clarify my post. First of all, we live in Vermont (always have) and are a short distance from UVM. D was given a full tuition scholarship for being ranked first in her class. She was notified of this before she applied and immediately said “I’m not going there”. I made her to apply just as a safety net (which in hindsight was a good thing). She has visited the campus, knows many students there, etc. yet still was determined it wasn’t for her. I know it’s a great school and all, but I’m just feeling some Mom-Guilt because there are a lot of reasons she would fit in better at NYU. However, I’m pretty conservative financially myself, so the loans are too scary for me. She doesn’t have a better financial package at any other school since our EFC was high. However, there’s a rather complicated blended family situation that prevents me from being able to help much. I also came into this process as a newbie and didn’t realize that New England schools were most expensive, that a lot of good middle of the road schools give great merit aid… I kind of learned it all after the fact. So, she’s going to UVM, but I feel kind of bad about it like I let her down. Everybody talks about the “gut feeling” you get when a school is right for you. I hope she’s the exception to that rule. To the person who posted “bloom where you are planted”, thank you. That made me smile.</p>
<p>I’m going to jump in and say that there are a lot of ways to get a NYC experience that don’t involve going to NYU for four years. What about studying at NYU in the summer or for a semester – perhaps UVM even offers an NYC semester? Or a Washington semester? Study abroad?</p>
<p>I would explain to your D what that $80K can purchase … and how hard it is to earn. </p>
<p>Is there an amount of money that you could make available to her to enhance her education? My son was recently in the situation of having to decide between two schools with a $13K/year price tag differential. Although we can afford the more expensive school I wanted him to understand that he could do a lot – with that $13K.</p>
<p>Valemom, the good news is that you care about your child and you feel for her. She’s a lucky girl!</p>
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<p>Please do not feel badly. I tell my son, “I’ve never been a perfect parent but I’ve always done the best I could at the time.” It’s all we can ask of ourselves, and we have to let our kids know that it’s enough so they will be forgiving with themselves down the road.</p>
<p>The fact is that students who had that gut feeling wind up disliking their schools enough to leave every year. The gut feeling is based on websites, brochures, short visits and the like. Yes, it can help give a good start but it’s not fool proof, not be any measure. </p>
<p>When I first married, someone gave me a needlepoint that said, “Home is Where the Marine Corps Sends You.” Sort of a military version of “bloom where you are planted.” It really is a choice to be happy where you are (once the basic needs are met, of course.) It’s a more difficult choice to make when you are young but it’s doable. I hope very much that your daughter finds her place and starts blooming. I think she will.</p>
<p>Please know you have not let her down. You have been realistic and are providing what you think you can. Sounds like a great choice. When she is older, she will probably appreciate/get it!</p>
<p>Good luck valemom. I was a newbie this year too. We started by looking at expensive private schools, and initially our assumption was - ‘we’ll take out loans - that’s what everyone does’.</p>
<p>But after I started reading things here, I got to thinking about the implications and realized that blithely taking on loans was going to leave S in a very bad way upon graduation.</p>
<p>So I explained to him what the loan payments would be, and told him unless he got merit to bring the cost down to X, that we could not afford it. We have a high EFC that we cannot meet. It did take some time for him to process this, that some of his friends have options that he doesn’t.</p>
<p>So S had a chance to come to terms with this, and luckily, he really likes our state flagship. He will graduate close to debt free and we’ve promised to help send him to a ‘dream’ graduate school if that’s what he decides on. </p>
<p>I feel for you and your daughter - I can see her point of wanting to get out of Vermont and experience living in Manhattan (I’m not putting down Vermont!). But she needs to understand what the debt will do to her life after graduation. And perhaps think of maybe trying to live and work in NY when graduating, or maybe even interning there.</p>
<p>I made the decision to graduate with $60,000 in loans. When I was 18 years old, going to the “right” college seemed like the most important thing in the world. You have to go to a good school to get a good job so you can be happy, and you need to have a great “college experience.” I got that “right” feeling the moment I stepped on this campus and thought I HAD to be here. My parents were concerned but ultimately I was able to convince them it was the right choice and they cosigned the loans. </p>
<p>Fast forward three years.</p>
<p>I am getting married in two years. My fiance and I have to accept that we may well be into our 30’s and 40’s before we will be able to own a home, if that. We will likely be dirt poor for the first 10-15 years of our marriage, I’ll be dirt poor anyway-- my monthly loan payments are essentially going to be a mortgage payment and then I still have to make rent and utilities, and god only knows what kind of job I’ll find. I’m not sure if I can, in good conscience, have as many children as I wanted, or any children at all. Maybe when we are much older, but by then we may have to adopt. We will have to go without all the extras. Pets would probably be a mistake, vacations are out of the question. Our wedding will be cake and punch at the local park, no honeymoon and most of the family will not be able to be invited because we can’t afford to have them. And worst of all, we will always have to worry, worry, worry about making ends meet. I am a slave to my debt.</p>
<p>Having grown up a bit, I see now that going to the college that is “just right” is not the most important thing in the world. It was not worth the decision I made. I could have gone to a less expensive school, probably gotten a better education because I would not have been so horribly stressed about how in gods name I’d make ends meet after graduation. I have given up so many things for the rest of my life just to have these four years. And for what? Was going to THIS school really all that important? </p>
<p>The answer is a definite no. If she really doesn’t think UVM is the right place, she can take a semester off and apply elsewhere or transfer. She doesn’t need to go to a school she doesn’t like, but she doesn’t need to $80k in debt either. I deeply, deeply wish my parents had said no to me. I wanted to be here SO bad and I would have been devastated, but that does not compare to how I feel now knowing that all the basic things people expect to be able to get from life-- a house, a car, the ability to provide for a family, are now all question marks for me. Maybe things will turn out better than they look right now, we will do our best to make it so, but I would not even be in a position to worry about it if I had been more sensible about my school choice. I made a huge mistake. I traded stability for the next several decades for four years at this school. I was young and stupid and I really needed my parents to help me make a more mature decision.</p>
<p>Emaheevul07: Hugs to you. I wish we could sticky your post at the top of every FA & admissions forum here on CC. </p>
<p>Coincidentally, I was talking to a grad student this week who is graduating next month. She had worked 40 hrs/week during undergrad & graduated with no student debt. Worked for a number of years, got married, bought a house. Decided to go to grad school. Entered in August 2008 then the economy tanked. She is lucky in that she has a job post graduation and her H has found one in the area too. They’ve just sold their house so they can relo. She has incurred over $100,000 in debt because she went for the “name” school. We asked her about the school choice & she said that while she loved the school & got a great education, she thinks she still would have gotten employment in her area if she’d gone to a “lesser” school. And she is deeply troubled by the reality of the debt because: a) they won’t be able to buy a house for a long time, b) if something happens to her 10 year old car, she can’t replace it, c) she has to make job choices based on income, not opportunities and d) family issues such as children are on the back burner. </p>
<p>This is someone who is very analytical, was in their late 20’s when they made this move and based the decision partially on a risk/reward scenario formulated in the early 2008 economy. Since I’d been reading this thread already when we had the conversation, I asked her what she thought about $80,000-$120,000 in undergrad debt. Can’t write her response in a family forum :)</p>
<p>BBD, I agree that a happy, non-consumer-oriented life in the attic is certainly possible and may have more integrity than some expensive and comfortable existences. Then again, the charm may wear off very, very quickly. Also, this scenario is much different if our attic dweller owes no money to anyone. Throw in a big unaffordable debt and some very unsympathetic institutions breathing down the neck and the happiness is likely to give way to anxiety and a feeling of enslavement (if not bankruptcy and homelessness). As Emahee pointed out, the debtor may have to give up or defer having children, not just big TV’s. If you’re willing and able to substantially cushion this situation for your daughter, that’s a different story. I don’t mean to sound condescending, I know you’re a grown adult with your kid’s best interests at heart, but I profoundly disagree with your premise.</p>
<p>lisa58.BBD seems to have fled this conversation. I do agree with what you are saying and hope he looked at some of the posts.</p>
<p>emahee, I am sorry your decision turned out to be one you so regret. I hope some very good things will happen for you that will in some ways mitigate the huge burden you’re under because of all that debt. I’m very grateful for your post. It’s a huge cautionary tale for parents and for our kids when we feel ourselves becoming starstruck with schools we really can’t (or shouldn’t) afford.</p>
<p>Two other thoughts…don’t give up on pets! A nice housecat can be very inexpensive to keep, and provides such lovely companionship.</p>
<p>And very best wishes on your upcoming marriage. I hope you will be very, very happy!</p>
<p>It is a tough choice to make. All I can say is that with the cost of education the way it is these days, many kids are saddled with debts that used to come from a professional school education where the job prospects justified the costs of the education. With these loans being offered to kids who don’t have such prospects, a meltdown is going to occur just as it did in the housing market, in my opinion. My close friend’s daughter has $60K in loans with a philosophy degree, a job at a coffee house, and has no idea how she is going to pay off those loans. She wants to go to graduate school in architechture or design and take out even more loans. If she should marry someone with a similar loan burden, they are going to be underwater before they even get their first breath of air. </p>
<p>Another friend of mine has a daughter who just completed two years at Bard College with no loans. With a nice merit package and work study, summer jobs and old fashioned scrimping, she is half way through the ride. She is transferring to NYU next year. She will be taking out major loans. But it will be for two years…maybe. She is going to try to graduate in a year and a half, reducing costs farther. Bard was not her first choice school but it had the best combo package and rep so she went there. She has also taken some SUNY courses over the summer at bargain rates, and will take some NYU courses (which are cheaper in the summer) as well to get the cost down. Yes, she’ll be in debt, but not as much as she would have been had she gone all four years at NYU which was her first choice school 2 years ago. </p>
<p>Also, older and wiser, she has found a room for far less than the going rate at NYU by scouring the bulletins. She’ll have a roommate who is scrimping as well, and at age 20 she is much more able to manage things than she was straight out of high school. </p>
<p>There are many different ways to skin the cat.</p>
<p>Ema –</p>
<p>I also wish we could sticky your post for all these parents in the class of '10 and '11 to read. I am very sorry that the situation is so tough, and I hope that enough good things happen that you’re able to work your way out of the debt burden sooner than you expect. </p>
<p>Thanks for posting.</p>
<p>I’m in tears tonight and I suspect D has been also. She made an incredibly mature and fiscally responsible decision to accept an amazing scholarship offer at a school that has never been her first choice and wouldn’t have been but for the financial aid package.</p>
<p>I wish we could have honestly said “money is no object, go where you want.”</p>
<p>I wish she will get off the waitlist at her dream school and they will give her merit aid.</p>
<p>I wish the professor at the #2 choice would have been a little more proactive at encouraging merit aid at that school when D emailed her.</p>
<p>Heck, I wish my husband would be a little more sensitive to how we both feel tonight.</p>
<p>But as a very wise graduate of the London School of Economics once said, “you can’t always get what you want…but sometimes you just might find, you get what you need.”</p>
<p>(Of course, he probably attended on a government grant…)</p>
<p>Rationally, in the long run, I think she’ll do fine and make this choice work for her. Emotionally, I just want to kick something.</p>
<p>Or someone. DH…?</p>
<p>Oh Stradmom, I know how you feel. My husband, too, is very low key, to put it mildly, about colleges. It seems that we moms are so much more sensitive to the point that it hurts us when our kids don’t get something that they want.</p>
<p>When I made my college choice, I didn’t have as much personally invested as kids do these days. I immediately rejected the two most selective and prestigious school for inadequate aid packages without a thought. Then it was a matter of juggling value vs cost on what was left. I didn’t take the best offer, but it was never even a thought that I would go to a school that didn’t offer me money. I don’t know any kids who think this way these days. The same with the parents. I know my parents didn’t give it a second thought when I discarded the schools that didn’t have the money behind their offers. It was understood that it was part of the deal.</p>
<p>When my daughter was accepted to Duke and UNC I talked with her about making “it” happen, but she was insistent that if the merit packages were not there she would not attend those schools. In the end she chose another school that was very generous and that allows her to graduate debt-free, without paying a dime. I am thankful that she adamantly chose financial security over name-brand. I still don’t know how I raised such an wise child.</p>