Non-Academic Smart Student

<p>Hello, I'm new here, and already i get the impression this forum is for those students in the top 5% s going on to prestigous colleges. Well, I have a 17 year old DS who graduated high school a year early (independent study). Since kindergarten has been very "un-academic" (gifted but low grades, blame it on the school, blame it on the teacher, blame the parent, blame the kid, I really can't explain). He is extremely smart (I know, we all say that, but seriously, this kid is smart). Since he's been in front of the computer since he was four years old, he's very tech savvy, but not into programming. He's a online gamer, but not into creating animation. He does not know what he "wants to be when he grows up." He is definitely gifted in music (played violin for two years in his early teens, and went through two Suzuki books in one year. Of course, gave of up the violin. He recently picked up a mini-synthesizer, and has taught himself to play the piano and compose music/midi software on his own. He's taking a piano lesson/class at the local city college right now, but is very unmotivated about getting some general ed. courses out of the way if (and hopefully when) he decides to transfer somewhere. ANY ADVICE is needed here. I'd like to steer him in the direction of music technolgies. He's unmotivated about even seeing a college counselor. help....</p>

<p>Is he going to the city college part-time or full-time? Is he working?</p>

<p>
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He's a online gamer, but not into creating animation.

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<p>That sounds really bad. I mean, how does he expect to make a living when his parents aren't paying his bills? (Sorry to sound harsh, as I know you are asking for information, but to me, as a fellow parent, it seems that the most important information I can impart is that he is learning how to be a slacker and not a doer.) Where does he get his money from to play the online games? Who bought him his computer? </p>

<p>Does he know anyone with brains who works hard? Does he know anyone with his interests who </p>

<p>a) makes serious money playing online games (as some young people do); </p>

<p>b) makes money as a musician, or helps the unfortunate with music; </p>

<p>c) writes computer programs; </p>

<p>or </p>

<p>d) does anything else related to his interests that is valued either as a gainful occupation or as a charitable contribution?</p>

<p>What part of the country do you live in?</p>

<p>I thought about Ithaca College, Dept. of Music which has a Bachelors of Music in Sound Technology, or in Composition, or "Music in combination with another field"... <a href="http://www.ithaca.edu/music/programs/index.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ithaca.edu/music/programs/index.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Sometimes kids that unfocused need some time to work or do a project before running off to college, just to grow up a bit. </p>

<p>Other times, if they can just find something that enthuses them about one college, it'll get them going to explore more</p>

<p>Have you suggested he use the computer now to research his future, look at websites of colleges, read about what people do in the world of music to live?</p>

<p>I can't understand the role of online gaming today in the life of college age kids, but it sounds like saying, "he plays bridge" or "he plays poker." </p>

<p>So far, nothing much has turned him on, it sounds like. THe computers let him hide from the world, or engage with it, depending.</p>

<p>EDIT: It's not just for prestige colleges here. There's quite a range, really! You'll see.</p>

<p>Also it occurs to me that since he graduated a year early with independent study, he's not surrounded socially now with other kids talking all about the college search.
What is his social context these days? The kids kind of prod each other along when they're in h.s. Is he home all day long now?
If so, that's bad and good. Bad, in that he doesn't have peers to help him realize it's time to figure out his next move; just parents worrying over him (makes him want to hide more?). Good, in that now he has all the time in the WORLD to figure out his next
move. He can research it while others are taking courses and school exams day in and out. Realize his advantage. Can you visit a college together? Can he go back to his h.s. and tap into the Guidance Counselor, even for one meeting to map out a plan together? There are resources at his h.s. to research this, plus online, but sometimes a fresh voice from the h.s. can help get him taking the first step forward.
Is there a career guidance person you'd be willing to hire for a consult?</p>

<p>Yes, unfortunately he appears to be a slacker in the making. All his various computers have been given to him, including a brand new Mac last year. he was given a large sum of money for graduation which he spent over the summer on various video game systems! He was enrolled in a second class, and working for three weeks, but he dropped the second class and quit his job.
Where is he right now? Gaming. Where will he be tomorrow? Gaming. know his dad and I just need to remove the computer and call it a day. We are too weak I suppose.
That's why I'm here, I need advice.</p>

<p>Actually, I take that back. He does create these little characters for WOW and mix music for it.....</p>

<p>Yikes. Isn't it time for you and H to sit him down and let him know he's absolutely unacceptable for a h.s. graduate? You have a few options, including charging him rent.
But if he doesn't like that, perhaps you can compromise. Instead of removing the computer, require that it be brought down and installed on the dining room table where all can see. GIve him 2 hours daily of gaming, no more. FInd out how to log in and see what he's been doing all day long. The other 6 hours must be related to computer research of career, college, or other skill development plan.
GIve him one week to come to you with 5 possible avenues for his life. For the first day, make it a weekend and sit with the 3 of you ove the computer and brainstorm ideas. He knows how to google. He can find things out. Just dial up "Sound technician" on google and read about that for an hour or so, see where it leads.</p>

<p>He has absolutely no structure at the moment, and he isn't going to come up with it himself. At l7 he's too immature to do so and you have to do this for him. GIve him a small deadlines: one day, then review that as a 3-some.
You can do this with friendly voice, by the way. Needn't sound nasty. Tell him you love him but you don't want to support him on the couch at age 20 either. Congratulate him for finishing early (mine did, also BTW and it can be a point of pride) so has this gift of Fall when others are under such pressure at school.
You and your H definitely need to find your voice and strength to deal with this. I'm sure he's talented and bright, but that's not enough any more. He needs a life plan.</p>

<p>I've got to go to sleep now, but will check in tomorrow. I'm sure others can give you other good advice.
Welcome to CC, hope it works for you as a Source of Strength (it has been so for me and many others:)</p>

<p>I know this an unothrodox suggestion, but you might want ti\o check out olganon (Google it), which has a support group for parents of online game addicts (FWIW, some people/professionals do consider gaming to be an addiction--I don't hve an opinion either way and am not diagnosising your S or anything).</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>My brothers and I have been very involved with online gaming on and off over the past ten years, and I can say without a doubt that much good has come from it. However, it's important to determine how gaming is helping you to achieve your goals rather than making gaming the goal itself. Unlike poker and bridge, there are a number of careers that one can hold within the gaming industry that can become quite profitable if one is good enough at it. If he's interested in music he might study to become a composer for game soundtracks, perhaps become an artist in game development if he likes that aspect, or if he's actually really "good" at the game (I'm speaking very, very skilled) then he can become a tester. Even beyond the actual development side, you still have the business aspect of gaming which is very much like other entertainment businesses in that marketing, PR, and other business functions are essential.</p>

<p>Get him motivated about doing something with his life that coincides with his interests. He might decide he wants to become an artist for games, but after getting his training he heads into some other field. The most important thing for him to have is a goal.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.igda.org/breakingin/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.igda.org/breakingin/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Take a look around that website. Don't dismiss gaming as simply a waste of time, although it definitely can be. If a person is serious about it, there are definite ways to making a career around it.</p>

<p>Have you done a CC search on unmotivated or underachieving boys? We've had a lot of discussion on that theme lately. Here are a few threads you may find helpful, though they deal with boys who are still in high school:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=316821&highlight=unmotivated%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=316821&highlight=unmotivated&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=316821&highlight=unmotivated%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=316821&highlight=unmotivated&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=170849&highlight=unmotivated%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=170849&highlight=unmotivated&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You might also look up posts by cheers, Northstarmom, and calmom - they come to mind as parents who have successfully dealt with (somewhat) similarly challenging boys.</p>

<p>This could be a very tough problem - good for you in deciding to find solutions. At the moment, your son's situation reminds me of those underachieving guys in the Judd Apatow movies (Knocked Up, 40-Year Old Virgin), and of course you don't want that! I know he's still only 17, but I think the best immediate action would be to tell him he must get a job - full-time if there's no school involved, part-time if he's willing to take some college courses somewhere.</p>

<p>businessguy's link for the IDGA could be an eye opener for your S. I have a nephew (early 30's now) who has been in the gaming industry for close to 10 years now.Started out as a "tester" and has worked his way up.He loves what he is doing.Based in San Fransico. Twin brother also stated out in same job but has switched over into running IT Ops for a boutique hotel chain.
Gaming is a legitimate industry.
adding:Nephew #1 did attend the Art Institute in SanFrancisco but didnt graduate, he made his industry contacts there,he brought twin bro out to Sf for the first job.</p>

<p>I agree with frazzled 1--he needs to get a job, any job, so he can experience what he DOESN'T want to do the rest of his life, and be motivated to find out what he DOES want to do. ;)</p>

<p>Keenone,
I too have an on-line gamer that was very much into WOW. One college that he explored was Champlain College in Burlington Vermont. My son took three programming classes in High School and decided that he did not want to program but was more interested in game design. <a href="http://www.champlain.edu/majors/egame/index.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.champlain.edu/majors/egame/index.php&lt;/a> I also have a review of it in the college review section on this board.</p>

<p>The College itself is easy to get into but the game design program is not. My son was accepted to the college but not into the game design program and it's one of those programs where one year of the major's classes builds on another and you cannot transfer in. This is a nice quirky college in one of the best college towns (University of Vermont is two blocks away) that we ever saw. There are also a couple of other majors that focus on computers that he might be interested in. </p>

<p>Somehow you have to get him interested in wanting to do SOMETHING with his life besides gaming. Visiting colleges really did help my son think of what he wanted to do, maybe it will work for your son too. BTW, my son is now an English major and has cut back dramatically on his WOW play.</p>

<p>BusinessGuy has good advice. I have many friends who work in the gaming industry and it is pretty lucrative. It is also pretty competitive.</p>

<p>Also, here's a list of colleges that offer certificates or degree programs using Game Institute curricula, if he shows any inclination toward development. Or he can take classes directly from the Game Institute, though not for college credit.</p>

<p><a href="http://ieee.gameinstitute.com/collegelist.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ieee.gameinstitute.com/collegelist.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If he's not inclined to do anything with games except play them, I second BusinessGuy's suggestion that if he is sufficiently skilled he could be a tester. My undergrad housemate was a tester this summer in MIT's experimental game development lab and enjoyed it, though now she's working there as a designer instead.</p>

<p>The thread title makes me think of an article that KeenOne should find helpful: </p>

<p><a href="http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/features/dweck.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2007/marapr/features/dweck.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>Whatever ability level a child starts out with, the only way to find real life satisfaction is by developing that ability. And the game industry is brutally competitive. For every business owner who is making money from other people's game addictions, there are a lot of grunts </p>

<p><a href="http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148369.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148369.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>for whom working in the game industry is just another "salt mine" job. Having enough skill and entrepreneurial ability to achieve independence in that industry is rare, and isn't born.</p>

<p>i think there was a cc thread about a year ago about one or more colleges that were putting in place special programs to reach out to the high scoring but unmotivated student. does anyone else remember the thread? if so, would they please link it here? maybe that would be of some help to KeenOne.</p>

<p>I feel like a broken record today, but...community college is an excellent option. He can explore classes and figure out what he's interested in doing with himself. He can still live at home and can carry a part-time job as well (sometimes jobs aren't so easy while living on campus). And if he slacks, CC has a much less expensive tuition to lose.</p>

<p>Many CCs have music tech programs or classes, BTW. Mine did. But at this point you seems to be trying to motivate him. Stop it. He's old enough to find his own motivation. Tell him he can get a part-time job and you will pay for CC, or he can get a full-time job and move out. He'll find the motivation, trust me.</p>

<p>Having said that, I have seen kids get seriously addicted to gaming. My second son worries me about that, so we limit his time (only on the weekends, for 1 to 2 hours per day) and we have all sorts of requirements on his grades for gaming or getting a car.</p>

<p>If I were in your shoes, I would tell my ADULT son to get a job, go to school, or get out. You are NOT doing him any favors supporting his gaming addiction. He needs to reenter the real world. Some tough love is in order here. </p>

<p>Good luck,</p>

<p>If this were my 17-year-old son, I would be planning a road trip with a list of nontraditional colleges (Evergreen State comes to mind) that offer the kind of program he might be interested in. Or traditional, but accepting of the late bloomer-unmotivated h.s. student. Some community colleges have specialized programs in music and music technology (as do places like Cal State colleges) that might turn this kid on. Use google or better yet, go on the Music Major forum on this site and ask specifically about music tech programs at less selective colleges and community colleges. And btw, this wouldn't be a do-you-want-to-do-this?, but more like hey, we're going to take this trip and these are my ideas about where we're going, want to add anything? </p>

<p>A road trip would serve several purposes: it will be a break from the computer and the cocoon of his room; it will put you and he in a position where there's not much else to do but talk to each other as you drive or sit in the airport; it will show him that you do support his interests and are willing to look for a program that might suit him to a T; it will show him that other students like himself are pursuing similar interests. It might provide the needed motivation for him to jump through the other hoops (academicwise) that have to be jumped through to complete a degree. </p>

<p>OR I would look for summer college program that offers a course and experience in music technology, or game design, or whatever might make his eyes light up and agree to attend. Getting out of the house and among other kids who think like him and are interested in what he's interested in could only help, imo. Either get him interested in looking for such an experience, or find some programs that fit and say, here, choose one, but you're not sitting at home in front of the computer all summer (or words to that effect). For some summer programs, you should look now because the applications will be need to be in before spring. And it will give you an opening to talk. </p>

<p>If he does seem addicted to WOW/internet gaming, then try to find help for that. But it may be that he's mostly unfocused and unmotivated, and perhaps the road trip or the summer program elsewhere will change that. </p>

<p>If there's not an addiction thing going on, and he's not suffering from something like ADD (which medication would help) then most likely he will eventually figure out what he wants to do and come up with a plan to go after it. Happened something like that for a friend's very smart son. He took the GED online, passed it, and announced at 16 that he wasn't going to go to h.s. anymore. His parents allowed him to vegetate a bit, taking a few comm college courses, working at Target. After a year or two of working at various jobs and getting the shaft on promotions and raises, the dime dropped and he decided to finish up credits for his AA and apply to a state college to get a degree in computer science. When he starts in the spring, he'll be almost 22. It took awhile, but he found what motivates him and he now has goals and a career plan. </p>

<p>Don't totally give up on him and assume that he will always be a slacker with nothing to contribute. There's a lot of growing up that happens between 17 and 21.</p>