Non-starter student help

Parent Cafe
1

Hey all. We have taken guardianship of our niece. 17 year old. Currently good grades, 3.7 gpa… Taking dual enrollment. She is a Junior.

Here is the problem. She lacks initiative, a non-starter. All school related stuff we have to push and nudge.
Smart kid but seemingly “lazy” with the road to college process.

Any tips to motivate her. At this point we are going to be hand holding the whole process and completion of high school and I suspect she may struggle finding her footing when she goes off to college.

She could be wracking up scholarships and other things to help her with College. She has not identified a future career. Has done college visits but she is unsure where she wants to go, she only knows she does not want to go to small town schools.

Because she is not fully applying herself she is also avoiding the more competitive schools.

Our own kids are toddlers so this whole process is new to us. The counselor at her school is overloaded. We can not hire a private person to help the process.

CAN ANYONE advice us how to navigate this so that she is successful?

We are thinking of enrolling her for summer programs but she probably needs some type of boot camp. We just want her to succeed. Help.

2

“She could be wracking up scholarships and other things to help her with College. She has not identified a future career. Has done college visits but she is unsure where she wants to go, she only knows she does not want to go to small town schools.”

A few things about this. First, it’s unlikely she could be getting scholarships already unless there are specific ones in your area that you know of. Second, lots of kids at this age haven’t identified a future career. Lots of kids in college haven’t.

Here are my suggestions. Get a Fiske Guide and have her look through it to see what schools might interest her. Then discuss finances. Who is paying for college? What is the budget? You can start to build a list around that.

The fact that you had to take guardianship over her tells me that she’s had a rough go of it while still maintaining good grades. I’d lay off of her a bit.

Has she taken any standardized tests yet?

3

I agree with @suzy100. Don’t push - it could backfire. Maybe it would be best for her to take a gap year and work. It’s not a race - a year of seeing what it’s like to work a low-paying job can be very motivating, and it would give her spending money for her college years.

4

Well, I am going to assume that she has been through some tough times since you have taken guardianship of her. I would say for that reason alone, don’t be too heavy handed. Plus heavy handed rarely works with 17 year olds, even under the best of circumstances. Very few 17 year olds reliably know what they want to be when they grow up, and if they do, it’s likely because they saw it on TV, interacted with that job personally, or had a parent who did that job. (Why else would so many kids want to be Crime Scene Investigators or physical therapists?) I would say that you should present her with the facts, as non-judgmentally and objectively as you can. Get the Naviance data from her school and see where her current GPA and activities put her. Also see where a bit more effort would put her. Tour both types of colleges with an attitude of, “I know you’re new to all this, and so are we, so let’s see where you’re at and if you’re comfortable with that or not.” I know it’s hard because you’re used to parenting toddlers who need a totally different type of parenting, but IMHO the sooner you accept that this is her life, the more quickly she will begin to actually listen to you. And I don’t mean do “reverse psychology.” Teens see through that a mile away. I mean truly accept that it is her life, and she may feel okay about going to a directional university close to your home because that’s what she really needs emotionally. It won’t wreck her life or anything–really. Or maybe she just really doesn’t realize the ramifications of her choices, or she’s overwhelmed by them. If you display consistent, non-judgmental guidance, she has the greatest likelihood of making good choices. Okay, so maybe there are some similarities to parenting toddlers! I hope this helps. It sounds like you are taking on a difficult role. All the best to you! (Edit: I noticed after I hit “post” that a lot of my comments were already made by others.)

5

I appreciate all your input. I now see there is no need to panic.

She has not taken standardized tests yet as she just joined us over the Holiday break. Plan is to take the ACT or SAT in the coming months depending on deadlines & preparation.

6

I’m in the “don’t push her” camp.

One thing I’ve learned along the way is that one way kids deal with stress is to shut down. What you may be seeing is her telling you (even if she doesn’t recognize it herself) that she’s feeling overwhelmed by recent changes.

As to knowing where her life is going, one of mine has no idea what they wanted to do until well into college. They now have a solid plan. Great kid I always knew would find her “thing.” Just needed to try a few other things first. Your niece may do well at a liberal arts college, or at least a school where she doesn’t need to come in with a declared major.

One method you may want to try is the 10 minute check in. It will take discipline on your part. The idea is that you reserve a time each week to discuss college, say Sunday afternoon or Thursday at dinner. Your kid agrees to talk to you about what they’ve done in regards to college over the past week and you agree not to raise the topic any time outside that 10 minute window. As @ccprofandmomof2 wrote, it’s important that you recognize that this is her journey, her future. If you interfere too much you may alienate her, particularly because you’re not her parents of origin.

It’s still early. The fact that she’s seen some schools means she’s ahead of a lot of kids. Does she have PSAT scores? Those would tell you what ballpark of schools she should be looking at.

7

@Pzaz99, there are lots of helpful folks on this site so if you have more questions as you figure out the college craziness, please post.

8

Can you start with checking local community college and state university applications? With unknown finances and scores, that is a good place to start

9

A legal, court-ordered guardianship or an informal arrangement? It makes a difference in terms of fin aid. If ordered by the court, she’s probably independent for FAFSA and may be eligible for full Pell, SEOG and state aid (?). If you are not court appointed guardians, FAFSA will have to be filled out using parent data, and eligibility for need-based aid hinges on their income. Really, before you can make plans beyond “Let’s see what happens on the standardized tests,” you need to know what you’re looking at in terms of budget/affordability.

10

Agree with all the advice above but just wanted to add, I was worried my kid was also going to be needing to be pushed, nudged, hand-held all the way as other than deciding what colleges she wanted to go to, she seemed to be doing nothing throughout junior year. Then all of a sudden at the end of the summer before senior year she got off her butt and worked really hard on college applications. Some kids need to find their own pace, and some work best when they can see the deadline coming.

There are obviously other issues as people here have noted. This is a great thing you guys are doing - wishing you the best outcome for everyone.

11

Right now making certain that she is in a safe place physically and emotionally is infinitely more important than worrying about the if/when/what/where/how of college admission and attendance. Her GPA is solid. Provided she can hang in there academically she will have decent options once she truly is able to approach the college questions.

12

Tell yourself again and again @hhappymomof1’s words. “Right now making certain that she is in a safe place physically and emotionally is infinitely more important than worrying about…college”

You’re her guardians now, not her college coach. Let her catch her breath and feel you care, not that college and (what feels like) pushing her out are primary.

So what, if she takes a gap year or commutes to comm college for a year or two? Your love is more important to her future success than the business of applying.

13

You may want to hop over to the Class of 2020 parent thread. Lots of good discussions.

As the parent of a junior, let me assure you that my child is a lot like your niece only without the guardianship issues. Same GPA. You’ll see a lot of posts here about tippy top schools, but there are lots of kids who aren’t interested in those (mine included). Remember that she will only be with you for a few more months, so enjoy your time together.

I would talk to someone about the guardianship and financial aid/FAFSA. That’s something you and she definitely don’t want to drop the ball on.

14

I also agree with don’t push. Consider a gap year in the working world. That will give her time to mature a little more. After that consider community college to start.

15

Great Advice so far. For testing, you should help get some formal or informal test prep. Some people test better on one test or the other. So do some practice tests with her to see if her brain clicks better with SAT or ACT.

16

I echo “don’t push” – and the other similar sentiments such as “this is not a race” and " the most important thing is for her to get her feet under her" and “you are her coaches” which is better for decision making in measured and more helpful ways than being parents. Coaches are one or two degrees removed emotionally and can sometimes see the world more clearly because of that. I also echo: no scholarships to be “racked up.” Often competing for scholarships backfires because it can reduce your “need” upon which FA decisions are made. So you go and work hard for scholarships only to reduce the cost of the SCHOOL not your cost. YMMV on that, but tha’s often the case.

I also sincerely and enthusiastically echo the “gap” time approach.

The most important factor for her success is that she feels grounded, safe and then she will begin to strive on her own. If you’re still nudging, she’s not ready. If you’re impatient, that could stunt her growth. Think of a transplanted plant. The plant is in new soil. Roots are broken randomly. The plant sometimes sheds leaves and looks haggard for several weeks or even a year before it begins to take off. The growth is happening below the soil first, if and only if it’s getting tender sunshine and water and good nutritious soil, and the occasional tender word. If you as the farmer keep pulling up the plant to see if the roots are growing, the plant will not thrive. And will take much longer to start to grow on its own.

There is endless amount of gap time available and, as a parent with a child in gap limbo, I can only say that this has been the best decision we made as parents. We relaxed and focused 100% on the emotional restructuring and growth of the child. We are in Year 2.5 and this child is THRIVING now. I dare not breathe out too forcefully, the change is so amazing. The recipe was: Boatloads of patience, good physical exercise every day (we walk and/or run), a fairly steady schedule, a set of not-too-taxing chores in the house, only positive words (only positive words – “catch them being good” to shape behavior, ignoring unwanted behavior; honing active listening skills), and the sort of guidance that a loving grandparent might give ("“hm, how about working on your resume for 20 minutes? How does that feel? No? Okay, maybe tomorrow then” – doing that sort of thing for 2.5 years and suddenly this child is thriving. We expect this child to begin to apply for college in one full year of steady positive growth, at age 21.5. So s/he will start college at about age 22. Far from being “behind” this child has acquired things that college students wish they had: 1) real job skills; 2) confidence on the job; 3) knowledge of what s/he likes and doesn’t like for a profession; 4) a real savings account with an enviable amount of cash; 5) focus and clarity. Plus s/he has been through training in networking, public speaking, and other skills that colleges rarely spend time on – or maybe offer but few students pursue. 6) reading and practicing his/her art because s/he has real time to think and follow his/her passion.

To feel comfortable with gap time as a concept, it might help if you research schools that welcome “nontraditional” students. There are many excellent programs. Schools that do so include Yale, Brown, Columbia GS, Vassar, Hampshire, Bard, Sarah Lawrence, MIT, Reed, Tufts, your state unis have programs too, I’m sure and many many others.

Each program has its own criteria for what it considers nontraditional. As a fast and dirty measure, Columbia GS (not great FA but some) states that it wants 1-2 years off from school but in practice it’s taken students with as short as a 6 month break from school. Sarah Lawrence treats students with a few college credits as freshmen admits. In contrast, some schools want nontrads to be 24 or 26 years old. Each school is different but there are so many of them that you should have no problem finding something that works for you when the time comes.

Women’s colleges – some of the top schools in the country – have special programs for nontraditional students and solid financial aid is often part of the package. If the child is 1-2 years out of college, they may be able to apply as freshmen admits. Ask the colleges directly. If they are older, you may want to look at –

17

First of all, she is not behind.

I have two girls. The first, i said “go make a college list and we will visit them over spring break” and she did.

The youngest one there was procrastination, whining…one day I took her to the library and said we are going to look at colleges. We did…but at some point she said “Mom, you like to research on the internet. Could you help me find some colleges?”

So first I asked her what she wanted in a college.
She wanted to be no more than 2 hours away, but not 15 min away.
She did not want to be in a city.
She did not want to be the best student at the college nor overly challenged.

I wanted it to be affordable as we don’t qualify for need based aid

I took her to visit our Big State U, and a littler State College. I thought she would like the State college.
That gave her an idea of what she did and didn’t like in a college.

So then i helped her look within the radius at colleges she would have a chance at merit scholarships (or they would just be affordable sticker price).

If you want, you could help her do the work. Go to the closest college to you and see what she likes/doesn’t like about it. She may have never been to a college. She may be recovering from whatever caused you to be her guardian. She may have no idea what to do.

Actually, she should just really get started with college stuff now. Sign her up for the SAT.
Start working on college ideas with the idea of visiting over spring break.

Also get on this thread:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/class-20xx-community/1839538-parents-of-the-hs-class-of-2020.html#latest

Also learn about financial aid while having a guardian:
If the child has the legal guardian appointed by a court, then they are an independent student and can get much aid.
https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/fafsa/filling-out/dependency

18

She’s not behind academically. But how many kids do you know who are uprooted from their homes? And to go live with relatives who have toddlers, no experience with teen kids yet? Our own kids are in their same stable homes.

Gently meant, I think OP is trying to approach this based on what she thinks parenting a teen is meant to be, as if everything is normal. To do what all we parents do, to get our kids to college. It’s not normal, though. I feel OP needs to think with her heart, first, listen to the signals, make sure she’s offering the “right” support, not pressing. It’s only been since the holidays. One month or less.

The difference is if, say, her niece’s parents are temporarily working abroad or in the military. Then she’s acting per the parent wishes.

19

Full stop here. If this was a necessary action, then really, pushing for college scholarships and tippy top grades are probably the least of her concerns.

College will be there at any point. There is a college for every student. Some kids find great careers that don’t require a college education, believe it or not. Some kids take longer to travel this journey,

If you have taken over guardianship, there surely is a good reason for this to have happened, and likely it’s not a cheery one.

Is this a court ordered guardianship, or an unofficial agreement to care for this niece for the time being.

20

@Pzaz99 — I agree with just about everything others have already said — I’d just want to add one more thing.

This depends somewhat on the circumstance of the guardianship – but if this was not a planned thing you also may want to consider whether you are sending an unintended message to your niece by focusing too much on plans for college. You may be thinking about her future, but she might be interpreting your enthusiasm for college prep and planning as being part of a desire to get rid of her as soon as possible.

That is, unlike your natural children, she has no assurance that you will continue to provide for her or care for her after she turns 18. For most teens, the thought of leaving the parental home and going off to someplace new is an enticing adventure – and one that comes with an unspoken safety net, of knowing that they can come back if things go wrong.

But your niece may not have that feeling of readiness for a new adventure, or sense of security.

I also do realize that you may not be able to make a long-term, open-ended commitment to provide for her. Perhaps you have your own economic limitations and really do need her to be ready to launch after she graduates from high school. If so, that is one more thing that needs to be understood and communicated clearly. But again, you are dealing with a teenager who may need a lot of support and reassurance along the way. So if your home will be open to her post high school – let her know that now, so she doesn’t feel like you are impatiently counting the days until she leaves – and if not, then find a way to help her ease into consideration of various options or alternatives that she may face at that time.